Does the 500cc class count as a premier mx class?

kage173
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kage173
Edited Date/Time 6/5/2021 5:07am
During the broadcast they kept throwing up stats on who had the most MX championships and it hit me they weren't counting the 500cc class. I think they should, but maybe not. In the later years it wasn't as prestigious but in the 80s a lot of the top guys were running it. Or maybe I remember wrong.

Also surprised that Ward wasn't on Mt Rushmore

Does the 500cc class count as premier class?

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Spudnut
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Spudnut 5/30/2021 11:19pm
5/30/2021 11:19pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2021 11:19pm
Don’t you realize that MX started in about 2000 as far as the broadcasters are concerned?!
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CPR
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CPR 5/31/2021 1:45am
5/31/2021 1:45am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2021 1:39pm
Maybe you should put ‘a’ in your question as in”....count as A premier mx class?”
The 500s was a premier class, but it’s a long time since it was the premier class.

Also if you count it in, it does alter the stats, because potentially a rider of that era could win three premier titles (250mx, 500mx & sx) in one year instead of two (mx & SX).

Not counting the 500s is probably just the easy way out. Doesn’t lessen its prestige, particularly in the 80s.
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80sMXbadboy
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80sMXbadboy 5/31/2021 10:39am
5/31/2021 10:39am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2021 10:40am
Search and watch a 500 USGP race from Carlsbad and that will give you a definite answer.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 5/31/2021 2:59pm
5/31/2021 2:59pm
In my opinion, it seemed like the 250 class became the “premier” class in the US around 77 or 78.....

Subjective, though.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 5/31/2021 3:42pm
5/31/2021 3:42pm Edited Date/Time 5/31/2021 3:43pm
I think MX titles should count no matter what the displacement. When asked the question “how many Mx titles does RC have?”

The answer should be (and usually is away from the broadcast) “10”.
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 5/31/2021 3:51pm
5/31/2021 3:51pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
In my opinion, it seemed like the 250 class became the “premier” class in the US around 77 or 78.....

Subjective, though.
Agreed and I think that's due to Supercross. The 500s were the premier class in the GPs till right around 1990 in my opinion.
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TropicPilot 5/31/2021 4:10pm
5/31/2021 4:10pm
Before 1986, I considered all three outdoor classes "premier," even though the 250 class was always thought to be the most, "stacked." I seem to recall Bailey took some mild criticism for switching to the 500 class in 1984 after winning the SX and 250 outdoors in '83. But all three classes held equal prestige during that era, in my opinion.

The split season era for the big bikes was kinda odd, because the premier classes only went like 6 races each, while the 125s went all 12. I guess that makes all those championships equally prestigious if you ask me.

But since we went from 3 classes to 2, I think we should count the 500 championships and wins in the premier class, too. I'm okay with that.
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 5/31/2021 8:20pm
5/31/2021 8:20pm
It's a tough one. If you count them it's not fair to the modern guys because those dudes in the 80s could double up on championships in one year. If you don't count them then you're taking away half the wins a rider in the 80s achieved. I almost think it should just be separated out. Have a new era start when the 500 class was no more.
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Falcon
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Falcon 6/1/2021 1:31pm
6/1/2021 1:31pm
Remind me about the MX schedule in the 1980s.... was it 125s for half the year, and 500 for the other half; or 250s for half the year and 500s the other half? One class ran all the nationals and two others split the program.
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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 6/1/2021 1:43pm
6/1/2021 1:43pm
It counts, but that doesn't mean Wardy locks in to any top four argument across the history of the sport, even if you limit it to the US. Great for arguing though.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 6/1/2021 2:22pm
6/1/2021 2:22pm
Falcon wrote:
Remind me about the MX schedule in the 1980s.... was it 125s for half the year, and 500 for the other half; or 250s for half...
Remind me about the MX schedule in the 1980s.... was it 125s for half the year, and 500 for the other half; or 250s for half the year and 500s the other half? One class ran all the nationals and two others split the program.
250s and 500s were split.
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Johnny Ringo 6/1/2021 2:23pm
6/1/2021 2:23pm Edited Date/Time 6/1/2021 2:25pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
It counts, but that doesn't mean Wardy locks in to any top four argument across the history of the sport, even if you limit it to...
It counts, but that doesn't mean Wardy locks in to any top four argument across the history of the sport, even if you limit it to the US. Great for arguing though.
Doesn’t put wardy or Larocco up anyone’s all time list but they definitely deserve to be included in their “totals”
just_gonna_send_it 6/1/2021 2:52pm
6/1/2021 2:52pm
So is this why they only had Ward with two "premier" class titles the other day on the broadcast? Because he only won the 250 MX title twice?

If that's true, then Broc Glover was never a "premier" motocross racer I guess.
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Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 6/1/2021 3:53pm
6/1/2021 3:53pm
kage173 wrote:
During the broadcast they kept throwing up stats on who had the most MX championships and it hit me they weren't counting the 500cc class. I...
During the broadcast they kept throwing up stats on who had the most MX championships and it hit me they weren't counting the 500cc class. I think they should, but maybe not. In the later years it wasn't as prestigious but in the 80s a lot of the top guys were running it. Or maybe I remember wrong.

Also surprised that Ward wasn't on Mt Rushmore
Heck, the Mt Rushmore of MX should be for US Nationals only. SX and GPs need not apply. SX can have it's own Mt Rushmore, and the euro's can have their own Mont Rushmore. Wink
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lestat
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lestat 6/1/2021 8:52pm
6/1/2021 8:52pm
It was a hell of a lot more premier of a class than a 250sxi is , I’ll tell you that much .
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motomike137
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motomike137 6/2/2021 4:32am
6/2/2021 4:32am
TDeath21 wrote:
It's a tough one. If you count them it's not fair to the modern guys because those dudes in the 80s could double up on championships...
It's a tough one. If you count them it's not fair to the modern guys because those dudes in the 80s could double up on championships in one year. If you don't count them then you're taking away half the wins a rider in the 80s achieved. I almost think it should just be separated out. Have a new era start when the 500 class was no more.
The double rarely happened and in fact they outlawed going for multiple MX championships in the U.S. if I;m not mistaken.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 6/2/2021 4:35am
6/2/2021 4:35am
TDeath21 wrote:
It's a tough one. If you count them it's not fair to the modern guys because those dudes in the 80s could double up on championships...
It's a tough one. If you count them it's not fair to the modern guys because those dudes in the 80s could double up on championships in one year. If you don't count them then you're taking away half the wins a rider in the 80s achieved. I almost think it should just be separated out. Have a new era start when the 500 class was no more.
motomike137 wrote:
The double rarely happened and in fact they outlawed going for multiple MX championships in the U.S. if I;m not mistaken.
I think he means a rider could potentially win both the 250 and 500 national titles because the series was split.
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motomike137 6/2/2021 4:46am
6/2/2021 4:46am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I think he means a rider could potentially win both the 250 and 500 national titles because the series was split.
But it didn't happen that way if you go back and look. Riders tried but I can't remember anyone that pulled it off (not saying it didn't get done once or twice), Either way the 500 class was the premier class for years and years until the manufacturers killed the bikes. Since the 4 stroke resurgence the 450 class is basically the modern 500 class.
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TeamGreen 6/2/2021 9:34am
6/2/2021 9:34am
backinthesaddleagain wrote:
And in GP racing the 500 class was THE CLASS.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/Andr-Malherbes-1981-W…
I kinda feel sorry for all the people that have no frame of reference. Racing a 500 at Saddleback, Carlsbad...hell...the GP Track at Hollister...or my favorite...in the Rain Event Track at Avenal on my 4 speed CR...

That was an eye opening experience. I remember laughing to myself on the starting line at Huron one day at how different the 1st turn was between 125, 250 and 500...my mechanic asked,"What's so funny?"...
I told him it's sooooo easy getting thru the 1st turn on my 500; but, as the engine's get smaller? Well, it's more of a battle to get a good run out of the 1st turn.

We had a really good day and celebrated with some ice cold Mickey Big Mouths. Damn...the '80s...

Good times.
No...
Great Times!
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backinthesaddleagain 6/3/2021 11:33am
6/3/2021 11:33am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2021 11:34am
In no particular order here in the US a 500 race with Bailey, Johnson, Glover, Magoo, or Ward was fast men on fast machines. I’ll put local NE hero JoJo Keller up there too as a man who could push the 500. No disrespect to other 500 riders. And then you look across the ocean to the GP, the 500 class was stacked.
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CPR
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CPR 6/4/2021 3:18pm
6/4/2021 3:18pm
Loved watching the late 80s 500 class, it was full of great riders, but the draw card for me was Aussie Jeff Leisk mixing it with legends.


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Bearuno
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Bearuno 6/5/2021 3:07am
6/5/2021 3:07am
Just curious :

Did the US 250s and 500s have the 'half seasons' compared to the 125s, most of the seasons?

Or, to put it another way, did the 500 series ever have 'long' seasons, prior to their being done away with?

Fuzzy brained I, Dizzy , can't recall.
jock
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jock 6/5/2021 5:06am
6/5/2021 5:06am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2021 5:07am
Bearuno wrote:
Just curious : Did the US 250s and 500s have the 'half seasons' compared to the 125s, most of the seasons? Or, to put it another...
Just curious :

Did the US 250s and 500s have the 'half seasons' compared to the 125s, most of the seasons?

Or, to put it another way, did the 500 series ever have 'long' seasons, prior to their being done away with?

Fuzzy brained I, Dizzy , can't recall.
The 500's run the full season until 1985, then run a split series with the 250's until 1993, then the 500's were dropped.
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