Does Jgr just do too much?

zac_k3
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zac_k3
Edited Date/Time 10/13/2017 4:14pm
After watching the Racer X interview with Barcia and him saying something like "bike malfunctions causing injuries" does anyone else get the feeling they just try doing way to much bike modifications that just aren't helpful? They've always had top riders and none of them can seem to go anywhere with the team.
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Helder
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Helder 10/12/2017 2:27am
10/12/2017 2:27am
Can you please link the interview?
Motofinne
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Motofinne 10/12/2017 2:29am
10/12/2017 2:29am
I know that Matthes has brought that theory up a few times.

I have no clue since i have no insight in how they work compared to a traditional factory team.
zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 2:36am
10/12/2017 2:36am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2017 2:38am
Motofinne wrote:
I know that Matthes has brought that theory up a few times. I have no clue since i have no insight in how they work compared...
I know that Matthes has brought that theory up a few times.

I have no clue since i have no insight in how they work compared to a traditional factory team.
They're team testing on products for their bikes are crazy, the suspension department has a top dollar machine just to test shocks (maybe forks not sure) on top of all the other things, someone did a tour of the shop and all the stuff in their race shop is insane.

The Shop

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Helder
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Helder 10/12/2017 2:46am
10/12/2017 2:46am
Yeah sweet...very interesting i like the clean Barcia.
nascarnate326 10/12/2017 2:50am
10/12/2017 2:50am
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith in either of those reasons though.
zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 2:55am
10/12/2017 2:55am
nascarnate326 wrote:
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith...
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith in either of those reasons though.
I could see that but it just seems like no one is ever happy with them, most of the top riders that have came through jgr have won before they went to them and win after they leave.
shaffstall721 10/12/2017 6:07am
10/12/2017 6:07am
nascarnate326 wrote:
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith...
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith in either of those reasons though.
zac_k3 wrote:
I could see that but it just seems like no one is ever happy with them, most of the top riders that have came through jgr...
I could see that but it just seems like no one is ever happy with them, most of the top riders that have came through jgr have won before they went to them and win after they leave.
who has won a championship after they left JGR?
es337
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es337 10/12/2017 6:13am
10/12/2017 6:13am
nascarnate326 wrote:
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith...
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith in either of those reasons though.
zac_k3 wrote:
I could see that but it just seems like no one is ever happy with them, most of the top riders that have came through jgr...
I could see that but it just seems like no one is ever happy with them, most of the top riders that have came through jgr have won before they went to them and win after they leave.
shaffstall721 wrote:
who has won a championship after they left JGR?
James outdoors 2012 if he did not crash due to the cameraman
zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 6:15am
10/12/2017 6:15am
shaffstall721 wrote:
who has won a championship after they left JGR?
I was talking about about race wins, a few years ago Stewart had the potential to win every race. He went to Jgr won two races and then went completely downhill because of bike problems, went to factory Suzuki and started winning again. It could have been just the Yamaha but even when they went to suzuki every other race one of their riders were injured and not in the hunt for even race wins.
newmann
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newmann 10/12/2017 6:18am
10/12/2017 6:18am
nascarnate326 wrote:
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith...
They are a team just like any other team. I think “Yamaha curse” is more applicable than “they do too much”. I wouldn’t put much faith in either of those reasons though.
JGR go overboard? No way.



Fearo
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Fearo 10/12/2017 6:19am
10/12/2017 6:19am
How about this for thought:

Maybe JGR's riders up to now haven't been smart enough to use all of JGR's possibilities to their advantage?
zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 6:22am
10/12/2017 6:22am
newmann wrote:
JGR go overboard? No way. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/10/12/219543/s1200_Freestone_2011_070.jpg[/img]
JGR go overboard? No way.



This is aids lol.
zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 6:22am
10/12/2017 6:22am
Fearo wrote:
How about this for thought:

Maybe JGR's riders up to now haven't been smart enough to use all of JGR's possibilities to their advantage?
what do you mean?
zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 6:32am
10/12/2017 6:32am
es337 wrote:
James outdoors 2012 if he did not crash due to the cameraman
Davi millsaps, supercross 2013 if he didn't tweak his knee in a practice crash.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 10/12/2017 7:55am
10/12/2017 7:55am
Of course they make a bunch of trick ass parts. However, maybe they should have some tier 2 riders testing those experimental products Before they reach the bikes of their high dollar talent.
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tprice07 10/12/2017 8:40am
10/12/2017 8:40am
I like what they are doing for the sport...none of us have the expertise or information needed to truly analyze whether or not they are doing too much.

That said, the amount of time, money, and engineering knowledge that oems put into particular parts on a bike can not be matched by a race shop. JGR does have some amazing equipment but I think they look at it too much like nascar. Many of the changes they make can't be quantified as easily as a race car. The data they receive could vary from lap to lap, day to day, and track to track. In Nascar, they can see exactly what a particular change did. Then combine that with the human aspect of a rider trying to explain what something "feels" like...and then that feeling suddenly changes when they didn't change a thing.

Anyhow, short answer, maybe.
500guy
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500guy 10/12/2017 8:43am
10/12/2017 8:43am
The Sport needs more like JGR, The Industry will work to get rid of them.

That's how it works challenge the status quo and meet heavy resistance.

You really think Honda wants Barcia to win this weekend ? no freaking way , that just makes The Factory Team and Geico Honda Team look bad.

Pit Row

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zac_k3
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 8:49am
10/12/2017 8:49am
tprice07 wrote:
I like what they are doing for the sport...none of us have the expertise or information needed to truly analyze whether or not they are doing...
I like what they are doing for the sport...none of us have the expertise or information needed to truly analyze whether or not they are doing too much.

That said, the amount of time, money, and engineering knowledge that oems put into particular parts on a bike can not be matched by a race shop. JGR does have some amazing equipment but I think they look at it too much like nascar. Many of the changes they make can't be quantified as easily as a race car. The data they receive could vary from lap to lap, day to day, and track to track. In Nascar, they can see exactly what a particular change did. Then combine that with the human aspect of a rider trying to explain what something "feels" like...and then that feeling suddenly changes when they didn't change a thing.

Anyhow, short answer, maybe.
I agree. I think they try predicting the race before it happens, so going into the actual race maybe they just don't cooperate with the rider saying it's them.
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Acidreamer 10/12/2017 8:52am
10/12/2017 8:52am
i think its more of the rider not doing well. I doubt jgr tells the riders no when they want a change. All of these teams do a ton of parts for their bikes. Look at pro circuit for example. The diffference is experience if i had to guess.
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 8:54am
10/12/2017 8:54am
500guy wrote:
The Sport needs more like JGR, The Industry will work to get rid of them. That's how it works challenge the status quo and meet heavy...
The Sport needs more like JGR, The Industry will work to get rid of them.

That's how it works challenge the status quo and meet heavy resistance.

You really think Honda wants Barcia to win this weekend ? no freaking way , that just makes The Factory Team and Geico Honda Team look bad.
No one's against jgr, I was only asking if other people thought that maybe they don't focus or work on the right thing. But honestly if Barcia was to win it wouldn't look that bad on Honda, Craig and Gajser are under the HRC tent this weekend? Craig whose been on the bike all summer not doing squat and Gajser who's never raced something like monster cup. If he was to win that would just be a great sales tactic for Honda.
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 9:00am
10/12/2017 9:00am
Acidreamer wrote:
i think its more of the rider not doing well. I doubt jgr tells the riders no when they want a change. All of these teams...
i think its more of the rider not doing well. I doubt jgr tells the riders no when they want a change. All of these teams do a ton of parts for their bikes. Look at pro circuit for example. The diffference is experience if i had to guess.
if it had been maybe just Barcia that went to them and turned sour i would think the same thing, over this last season Barcia, Peick, Nicoletti, Bisceglia all have been hurt and now with Barcia saying that it would answer a lot of questions.
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Ramrod 10/12/2017 9:09am
10/12/2017 9:09am
When a coach or manager of a sports team doesn't deliver results, generally they are in the hot seat. I am by no means bagging on the JGR manager because he seems like a super great guy but I wonder how his approach is with the riders?
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 9:15am
10/12/2017 9:15am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2017 9:18am
Ramrod wrote:
When a coach or manager of a sports team doesn't deliver results, generally they are in the hot seat. I am by no means bagging on...
When a coach or manager of a sports team doesn't deliver results, generally they are in the hot seat. I am by no means bagging on the JGR manager because he seems like a super great guy but I wonder how his approach is with the riders?
Because Coy Gibbs is team owner and manger i think, I might be wrong on that.
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Ramrod 10/12/2017 9:21am
10/12/2017 9:21am
Ramrod wrote:
When a coach or manager of a sports team doesn't deliver results, generally they are in the hot seat. I am by no means bagging on...
When a coach or manager of a sports team doesn't deliver results, generally they are in the hot seat. I am by no means bagging on the JGR manager because he seems like a super great guy but I wonder how his approach is with the riders?
zac_k3 wrote:
Because Coy Gibbs is team owner and manger i think, I might be wrong on that.
Albrecht is the manager.

I wish they had some better success to show for all their efforts. They are a great team.
motoracer58
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motoracer58 10/12/2017 9:24am
10/12/2017 9:24am
What does JGR do that other teams aren't? I don't see where they are going crazy and changing things that no other team has, I think their team has been more open to having interviews and videos in the shop showing all their equipment and things like that. Do you really think any factory team doesn't have a suspension and engine dyno? I'm not really sure why people think JGR can't win a title, like what was said before, it's not like someone left JGR and went on to do any better, and that's when JGR was on yamaha even
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Fearo 10/12/2017 9:28am
10/12/2017 9:28am
Fearo wrote:
How about this for thought:

Maybe JGR's riders up to now haven't been smart enough to use all of JGR's possibilities to their advantage?
zac_k3 wrote:
what do you mean?
What I mean by that is JGR is in a unique position. They have the funds and technical capabilities to do whatever they want without any compromise because they do not need to sell their product. This is unlike any other team.

For example, if they wanted to (and I believe they have, see the JGR forks thread in "race shop") they can build frankenstein suspension with Showa/KYB/WP and self-machined parts mixed together if they wanted to. The problem is for these kinds of things to give you an andvantage you would have to have an incredibly smart rider that is able to sense the smallest of differences AND is able to consciously help with a design process of certain parts without any baseline, because in that situation, evidently, you're on your own because nobody is doing what you are doing.

I'm 100% sure that in the right situation with the right guy, ths could lead to fireworks, I'm just not sure there's a lot of guys right now with the experience and smarts to be able to do it.
AzTrooper
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AzTrooper 10/12/2017 9:30am
10/12/2017 9:30am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2017 9:32am
I don't know how much stock one can put into the notion of JGR and their development and utilization of their in house made parts and tech being responsible for their riders injuries. I'm not knocking any of the riders in any way. They all are highly skilled and great riders but a quick look at some of these riders show that they had a lot of injuries before the joining JGR as well as after leaving the team such as Josh Grant, Davi Milsaps, JS7, Jake Weimer, and Barcia (up to the present). Now if they signed a top rider who in the past had very few injuries then started getting injured a lot after riding for them I would start thinking there might be some truth to the notion.
Again these are just my thoughts, Im just a fan and dont know anything about what goes on behind the scenes with riders and teams so this is all just purely speculation on my part.
John
DAG
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DAG 10/12/2017 9:32am
10/12/2017 9:32am
Remeber when James complained the YZ was too wide so the guys created new bodywork to narrow the bike down? Or when Dean created a rocket motor that rips holeshots for most of the season and everyone says that the YZ's have a great motor? I do cause my 2018 YZ450 is narrower than before and pulls to the moon. Race teams are supposed to help develop new product.I'm sure glad JGR does too much because it helps make a great consumer bike. Lets see what the 2019 or 2020 RM's look like after some time with JGR.
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zac_k3 10/12/2017 9:35am
10/12/2017 9:35am
motoracer58 wrote:
What does JGR do that other teams aren't? I don't see where they are going crazy and changing things that no other team has, I think...
What does JGR do that other teams aren't? I don't see where they are going crazy and changing things that no other team has, I think their team has been more open to having interviews and videos in the shop showing all their equipment and things like that. Do you really think any factory team doesn't have a suspension and engine dyno? I'm not really sure why people think JGR can't win a title, like what was said before, it's not like someone left JGR and went on to do any better, and that's when JGR was on yamaha even
From the outside looking in they make a lot of custom stuff for their bikes. linkages, shifters, pegs, peg mounts, modified subframe, and a lot more. Factory teams get stuff dialed in and don't fight the bikes all season long. No one is saying they can't win it's just like for the past few years they get top riders and they go no where, whether that's the riders fault or teams who knows.

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