“Dirty” Riders?

davistld01
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davistld01
Edited Date/Time 1/4/2021 10:33am
I know that the idea of being a “dirty rider” is subjective at the very least. I’m almost every instance of a take out, cross over in the whoops or brake check...some will cry foul and some will just say “racing incident”.

So...what riders are generally considered dirty riders of the guys on the line at a modern pro SX race?

Who’s the “dirtiest” rider?
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Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 11/5/2018 12:28pm
11/5/2018 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2018 12:29pm
Off the top of my head, without thinking too long about it....when you take a line with the intention to impede, block, slow or take out another racer....WHEN A DIFFERENT FASTER LINE IS AVAILABLE.....However, if I think about it for a while I might come up with a better definition.
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flopper12
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flopper12 11/5/2018 12:32pm
11/5/2018 12:32pm
Vince Friese takes people out as he works his way backward. Doesn't get any dirtier than that.
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 11/5/2018 12:54pm
11/5/2018 12:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2018 12:57pm
A dirty rider A) is more focused on knocking someone else down than going as fast as they can to get away from that person and B ) makes passes through contact even when un-necessary.

In line with Part B, I'd say Anderson is a frontrunner, although he seems to have settled down a bit. Quite a few ridiculous hits on Seely over the years though!
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Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 11/5/2018 12:58pm
11/5/2018 12:58pm
flopper12 wrote:
Vince Friese takes people out as he works his way backward. Doesn't get any dirtier than that.
I haven't seen Vince do that. It seems to me taking someone out from behind is A LOT easier than doing it from in front (especially if the racer performing the maneuver is faster), leading me to believe those maneuvers are done with more intention/malice...taking someone out from in front is more guess work....doing it from behind is more of an intentional sure thing...therefore being more dirty, IMHO. HOWEVER, I respect your opinion that Vince is the dirtiest racer in the world.Dry
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mx186
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mx186 11/5/2018 1:45pm
11/5/2018 1:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2018 1:47pm
Can't believe no one has mentioned Josh "JG33" Grant... check out a couple of his moves from the past several seasons, most of these were completely intentional as well.... Dude has no regard for other riders, seems like he's worse than Friese.

Take out on Mookie at East Rutherford 2017:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP3p3COIzJQ

Mike Alessi takeout at Colorado during the 2009 Outdoor season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhwD2v564c4

Ryan Villopoto T-Bone at ATL 2008 (Lites East SX opener): (go to 34 min mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nczQlCgaES4&t=2063s
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 11/5/2018 2:24pm
11/5/2018 2:24pm Edited Date/Time 1/4/2021 7:36am
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer" https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer"

https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
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Stuntman949
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Stuntman949 11/5/2018 2:36pm
11/5/2018 2:36pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer" https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer"

https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Meh... Seen worse on the Milestone Vet track
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davistld01
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davistld01 11/5/2018 2:50pm
11/5/2018 2:50pm
mark_swart wrote:
A dirty rider A) is more focused on knocking someone else down than going as fast as they can to get away from that person and...
A dirty rider A) is more focused on knocking someone else down than going as fast as they can to get away from that person and B ) makes passes through contact even when un-necessary.

In line with Part B, I'd say Anderson is a frontrunner, although he seems to have settled down a bit. Quite a few ridiculous hits on Seely over the years though!
I agree with your (A) in that a really "dirty" rider is more focused on knocking someone down than he is moving forward. I'm all for getting physical if it means advancing to a possible podium or overall...within reason of course. What I'm not ok is going all out to torpedo another rider just because you can, and even if if doesn't get you any advantage at all. That's not only "dirty", that's being an idiot too.

On your (Cool , however...aside from the agreed absolutely calculated and meaningless hits he's dealt Cole Seely in the past (What's that shit about anyway?), I have never seen Anderson as much of a definitive "dirty" rider. He does seem to go absolutely crazy when somebody is in front of him...and sometimes he rides like dropping the guy is his sole desire, he does what he does (usually) to advance, in an attempt to move toward the front.
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davistld01
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davistld01 11/5/2018 2:54pm
11/5/2018 2:54pm
I have to agree that Josh Grant is the most underrated "dirty" guy...or at least at times he seems like he loves to hit somebody especially when they're down...like he did here with Mike Alessi.

https://youtu.be/yhwD2v564c4
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/5/2018 2:56pm
11/5/2018 2:56pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer" https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer"

https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Hey, uh, Mav?

No pics from this week’s Canadian “SX” where someone got -clearly- taken out...?
Cool
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 11/5/2018 3:04pm
11/5/2018 3:04pm
mark_swart wrote:
A dirty rider A) is more focused on knocking someone else down than going as fast as they can to get away from that person and...
A dirty rider A) is more focused on knocking someone else down than going as fast as they can to get away from that person and B ) makes passes through contact even when un-necessary.

In line with Part B, I'd say Anderson is a frontrunner, although he seems to have settled down a bit. Quite a few ridiculous hits on Seely over the years though!
davistld01 wrote:
I agree with your (A) in that a really "dirty" rider is more focused on knocking someone down than he is moving forward. I'm all for...
I agree with your (A) in that a really "dirty" rider is more focused on knocking someone down than he is moving forward. I'm all for getting physical if it means advancing to a possible podium or overall...within reason of course. What I'm not ok is going all out to torpedo another rider just because you can, and even if if doesn't get you any advantage at all. That's not only "dirty", that's being an idiot too.

On your (Cool , however...aside from the agreed absolutely calculated and meaningless hits he's dealt Cole Seely in the past (What's that shit about anyway?), I have never seen Anderson as much of a definitive "dirty" rider. He does seem to go absolutely crazy when somebody is in front of him...and sometimes he rides like dropping the guy is his sole desire, he does what he does (usually) to advance, in an attempt to move toward the front.
Yeah you probably have a point on Anderson, most of the time he's okay, but when he sees Seely it's like a juicy T Bone steak in front of a ravenous wolf!!! It's no worse than ZA and Savatgy the other year, but they don't do that every week.
Piston Slap
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Piston Slap 11/5/2018 3:39pm
11/5/2018 3:39pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2018 3:40pm
davistld01 wrote:
I have to agree that Josh Grant is the most underrated "dirty" guy...or at least at times he seems like he loves to hit somebody especially...
I have to agree that Josh Grant is the most underrated "dirty" guy...or at least at times he seems like he loves to hit somebody especially when they're down...like he did here with Mike Alessi.

https://youtu.be/yhwD2v564c4
Thing about that is. . . Shortly after that, Jeff Alessi ran it in hard on Josh and jacked Josh knee up in repayment..
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Shawn142
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Shawn142 11/5/2018 4:02pm
11/5/2018 4:02pm
flopper12 wrote:
Vince Friese takes people out as he works his way backward. Doesn't get any dirtier than that.
Motoxdoc wrote:
I haven't seen Vince do that. It seems to me taking someone out from behind is A LOT easier than doing it from in front (especially...
I haven't seen Vince do that. It seems to me taking someone out from behind is A LOT easier than doing it from in front (especially if the racer performing the maneuver is faster), leading me to believe those maneuvers are done with more intention/malice...taking someone out from in front is more guess work....doing it from behind is more of an intentional sure thing...therefore being more dirty, IMHO. HOWEVER, I respect your opinion that Vince is the dirtiest racer in the world.Dry
I'm not sure you're getting the concept. The idea is right after you get passed you dive-bomb the guy who just got around you. For anyone who goes to the races and watched Friese over the years this was a common occurrence. He wouldn't chop the front runners, but if someone he felt was roughly his level went by he would absolutely take a stab at an intentional take-out. The other guy who was horrible about that was Sorby. After getting passed he would try and shove his bike up the inside of anyone. You can call it an aggressive counter move if you like, but when the target is always the front wheel you get a reputation for it. The stigma of Friese isn't born from nothing, he got DQ'd from multiple amateur events for clear take-outs. This has always been a thing with him.
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Ranch Life
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Ranch Life 11/5/2018 4:56pm
11/5/2018 4:56pm
I'm looking forward to Jacob Hayes racing sx this year to see where he fits into this category. He had some classics in ax.
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GeorgiePorgie 11/5/2018 7:21pm
11/5/2018 7:21pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2018 7:22pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer" https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
Apparently this guy, Creedy, is so bad they made a video about him titled "World's most ruthless supercross racer"

https://youtu.be/MKESjvUSzM8
-MAVERICK- wrote:
That’s just great arenacross racing. and it seems like nobody is butthurt. It’s like greedys persona.

Is everybody squeaky clean? No!!! Everyone on this board has dirtied someone as some time in the sport. If you havent you’re lieing or haven’t raced people hard enough to tip you over the edge of sanity.
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FeetUp
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FeetUp 11/5/2018 8:13pm
11/5/2018 8:13pm
davistld01 wrote:
I have to agree that Josh Grant is the most underrated "dirty" guy...or at least at times he seems like he loves to hit somebody especially...
I have to agree that Josh Grant is the most underrated "dirty" guy...or at least at times he seems like he loves to hit somebody especially when they're down...like he did here with Mike Alessi.

https://youtu.be/yhwD2v564c4
I heard JG in an interview allude to the Alessi takeout as being on purpose. He knew Mike was hurt, and he was trying to stop him from winning the championship. Because of that interview i'm not a JG fan.
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blockhead17 11/5/2018 8:43pm
11/5/2018 8:43pm
All those JG takeouts were retaliation which I’m kinda ok with, other riders such as Barcia and Anderson are just going for it with little regard for other riders.
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TXDirt
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TXDirt 11/6/2018 4:59am
11/6/2018 4:59am
Marvin "Cross Jumpin " Muquin.
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flopper12
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flopper12 11/6/2018 7:08am
11/6/2018 7:08am
Ranch Life wrote:
I'm looking forward to Jacob Hayes racing sx this year to see where he fits into this category. He had some classics in ax.
Bigger fish in a bigger pond, I don't think he'll be flexing as much in SX as he did AX, and if he does, someone will put his ass over a berm.
flopper12
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flopper12 11/6/2018 7:10am
11/6/2018 7:10am
Shawn142 wrote:
I'm not sure you're getting the concept. The idea is right after you get passed you dive-bomb the guy who just got around you. For anyone...
I'm not sure you're getting the concept. The idea is right after you get passed you dive-bomb the guy who just got around you. For anyone who goes to the races and watched Friese over the years this was a common occurrence. He wouldn't chop the front runners, but if someone he felt was roughly his level went by he would absolutely take a stab at an intentional take-out. The other guy who was horrible about that was Sorby. After getting passed he would try and shove his bike up the inside of anyone. You can call it an aggressive counter move if you like, but when the target is always the front wheel you get a reputation for it. The stigma of Friese isn't born from nothing, he got DQ'd from multiple amateur events for clear take-outs. This has always been a thing with him.
Thanks Shawn142. You explained my feelings toward Vince "Bitch Move" Friese much better than I ever could have. I appreciate your response.
davistld01
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davistld01 11/6/2018 7:55am
11/6/2018 7:55am
TXDirt wrote:
Marvin "Cross Jumpin " Muquin.
Everybody cross jumps from time to time, especially when they've got a guy on their tail pushing for a pass. Riding a "wide bike" isn't necessarily riding dirty...unless you ask the guy behind them, or you ask a fan of the guy behind them.

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davistld01
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davistld01 11/6/2018 7:56am
11/6/2018 7:56am
Can somebody answer...what is it with Anderson and Seely? I'm not a Cali guy so I don't know if the bad blood goes back to their mini days or what, but JA seems to have taken more opportune shots at Cole Seely than damn near anybody else.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 11/6/2018 8:06am
11/6/2018 8:06am
TXDirt wrote:
Marvin "Cross Jumpin " Muquin.
davistld01 wrote:
[b]Everybody[/b] cross jumps from time to time, especially when they've got a guy on their tail pushing for a pass. Riding a "wide bike" isn't necessarily...
Everybody cross jumps from time to time, especially when they've got a guy on their tail pushing for a pass. Riding a "wide bike" isn't necessarily riding dirty...unless you ask the guy behind them, or you ask a fan of the guy behind them.

Riding a wide bike and cross jumping another rider are two different things. So no, not EVERYBODY cross jumps from time to time.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 11/6/2018 8:13am
11/6/2018 8:13am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2018 8:15am
I honestly dont have as big of a problem with cross jumping as i used to.... They spend like 90% of the time either in the air or in between jumps for a quarter of a second. They have no other choice but to make moves while in the air they are nearly never on the ground in sx.

Thats what everyone wants is more jumps well now you're gonna get aerial combat/dog fighting style racing with that. No other way around it.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 11/6/2018 8:15am
11/6/2018 8:15am
As far as I know you have the entire width of the track to ride/place the bike where you want.

If you're in a close battle, make a pass, come up a jump and decide to go from left to right or right to left immediately after that pass, that's cross jumping and that's stupid/dangerous.

Other than that, fair game.
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JeepnMike
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JeepnMike 11/6/2018 8:27am
11/6/2018 8:27am
davistld01 wrote:
Can somebody answer...what is it with Anderson and Seely? I'm not a Cali guy so I don't know if the bad blood goes back to their...
Can somebody answer...what is it with Anderson and Seely? I'm not a Cali guy so I don't know if the bad blood goes back to their mini days or what, but JA seems to have taken more opportune shots at Cole Seely than damn near anybody else.
This seems to have fizzled a little bit with them on the 450s. But when they were battling on the 250s and Anderson was constantly putting the aggression on Seely, from my uneducated perspective, it sure seemed like Anderson was the bully, and Seely just kept taking the beatings. One of those things where Seely just needed to kick him in the jimmy off of the track, or throw some aggression back and he just didn't seem to have the anger to do either.

Hopefully Seely will start 2019 well healed, newfound energy, realizing he has a 1 year contract, ride hard, and don't take shit from anybody. I have never been a fan of the SOCAL racers, but he is one I would like to see have a good and solid season.
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davistld01
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davistld01 11/6/2018 8:33am
11/6/2018 8:33am
JeepnMike wrote:
This seems to have fizzled a little bit with them on the 450s. But when they were battling on the 250s and Anderson was constantly putting...
This seems to have fizzled a little bit with them on the 450s. But when they were battling on the 250s and Anderson was constantly putting the aggression on Seely, from my uneducated perspective, it sure seemed like Anderson was the bully, and Seely just kept taking the beatings. One of those things where Seely just needed to kick him in the jimmy off of the track, or throw some aggression back and he just didn't seem to have the anger to do either.

Hopefully Seely will start 2019 well healed, newfound energy, realizing he has a 1 year contract, ride hard, and don't take shit from anybody. I have never been a fan of the SOCAL racers, but he is one I would like to see have a good and solid season.
I never see Cole Seely make any moves that I would consider "overly aggressive" or questionable. It might be that Cole is almost too nice a guy, and Anderson knows he's an easy mark. I too would really like to see Cole stand up, fight for his ride at Honda, and force his way onto the podium...and if that means giving it back to Jason, it is what it is.

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