Dirt bike thief gets conked in the head with a loading ramp

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6/14/2019 5:00 AM

Zacka 161 wrote:

As someone who has an ABI that is really scary and painful to see.

Is being a vegetable for the rest of your life because you tried to steal a bike fair punishment? No fucking way anyone that thinks it is is a fucking idiot and seems to have a ‘death penalty for any crime’ mindset and that’s fucked up.

Should the boy be punished? No fucking way he was defending his property, and retaliating to aggravated assault in a family member with non lethal force. ie. he didn’t pick up a gun and shoot to kill, that would be a different story altogether.

I do think he should take some defence training though to be able to take down thief’s more effectively without turning them into vegetables.

So many people posting in here are comparing the violence to the bike and forgetting that the dude TRIED TO HIT HIS DAD WITH A HAMMER.

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6/14/2019 6:28 AM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

This is one of the absolute worst pieces of advise that I have ever come across. You NEVER pull a concealed firearm on someone unless the circumstances warrant that you use it. For anyone reading this, please don't ever do this. Pulling a firearm and using it on someone is the absolute last resort after everything else has failed and you believe that the only option left is his life or yours.

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6/14/2019 6:41 AM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

Hoseclamp wrote:

You dont pull a gun to scare someone. If its serious enough to clear leather you better mean business.

toostroke wrote:

Nope just because you pull a gun out doesn’t mean you have to shoot it means you’re not fucking around

Brandishing a Firearm

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

6/14/2019 7:20 AM

MXD wrote:

This is one of the absolute worst pieces of advise that I have ever come across. You NEVER pull a concealed firearm on someone unless the circumstances warrant that you use it. For anyone reading this, please don't ever do this. Pulling a firearm and using it on someone is the absolute last resort after everything else has failed and you believe that the only option left is his life or yours.

So you’re trying to say if someone hits my dad with a hammer in the head and tries to run off with my bike I shouldn’t pull a gun out?

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6/14/2019 7:34 AM

OLDMOTO wrote:

A few points:
When the kid attacked the father with the hammer it was "attempted murder"and "assault with a deadly weapon".
When the kid reached for the hammer the son was in "imenent danger" and "in fear for his life"
When the son hit the kid using the ramp, he was using "sufficient and nessecarry force to repel his attacker".
When the son punched the kid while he was laying face down on the ground, it could be construed to be "unreasonable force". This could be charged as a crime but I feel it is unlikely in this case.

As for fighting and shooting:
I have studied, trained in and taught martial arts for 50 years and I do have some experience in this matter. Also I was competetive shooter and competed with pistols, rifles and shotguns. So I do have a qualified opinion on this as well.
Most people tend to overestimate their fighting abilities. If you are trained as a martial artist, boxer, wrestler or in military hand to hand combat you obviously are better equipped for such a situation. But it still requires practice and experience. Someone who has been in many fights and is accustomed to violence will react quicker and forcefully. You could still loose. Also there can be a high price for victory. You can win and still be injured or be charged criminally.

As for the shooting:
Most law enforcement shots fired miss. I forget the exact statistic but it is something like 3 shots out of 15 hit the target. SEALS, Special forces and Swat personnel practice shooting continuously just for this reason.
You do not display your weapon if you are not prepared to use it. Displaying a weapon can escalate the situation.That does not mean you shoot every time you pull it out. Further you shoot for center of mass not to kill. Head shots are for the SEALS as they are specially trainded for that. Killing maybe the result of shooting correctly. You defiantly do not want to state that you shot with intent to kill. Also if you were to shoot you continue to fire until the threat is neutralized. You can shoot and wound someone and they can still hurt or kill you.

Finally no one really knows how they will react when confronted with a sudden dangerous situation. Special training increases the odds that you react as trained but experience critical as well.

This is a fantastic post. Thank you.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/14/2019 7:45 AM

Forget guns, get a dog - nobody gets shot, and you have a terrific friend. I have a Doberman/Shepherd who isn't a mean and aggressive dog but she's far from friendly with strangers. It's amazing how well-behaved people are when she's with me. Door to door salespeople can't leave my doorstep fast enough. Of course I know that this isn't a perfect solution - I don't even know for sure what she would do if someone attacked me - but there is certainly a deterrent effect, at least to some extent.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/14/2019 7:54 AM

toostroke wrote:

But if the guy were to pull a gun or was super close with a knife I wouldn’t go for the legs I’d have to shoot in the vital areas of the body

Gworm wrote:

If you have a gun pulled on him and he gets his gun out, you're more than likely going to die, and I wouldn't be too sure about your chances if he has a knife.

toostroke wrote:

Not if you shoot first in the right place

You do know that law enforcement is taught to shoot for the biggest part of the body, because when in times of stress (when you’ve pulled your gun) you go for the take down. I’m surprised you didn’t say you’d shoot the hammer out of his hand. You’ve watched to many movies with gun fights.

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6/14/2019 7:56 AM

MPJC wrote:

Forget guns, get a dog - nobody gets shot, and you have a terrific friend. I have a Doberman/Shepherd who isn't a mean and aggressive dog but she's far from friendly with strangers. It's amazing how well-behaved people are when she's with me. Door to door salespeople can't leave my doorstep fast enough. Of course I know that this isn't a perfect solution - I don't even know for sure what she would do if someone attacked me - but there is certainly a deterrent effect, at least to some extent.



I guess if I'm going to brag about my furry friend I should show her off too!
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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/14/2019 8:21 AM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

MXD wrote:

This is one of the absolute worst pieces of advise that I have ever come across. You NEVER pull a concealed firearm on someone unless the circumstances warrant that you use it. For anyone reading this, please don't ever do this. Pulling a firearm and using it on someone is the absolute last resort after everything else has failed and you believe that the only option left is his life or yours.

toostroke wrote:

So you’re trying to say if someone hits my dad with a hammer in the head and tries to run off with my bike I shouldn’t pull a gun out?

Not in most states in the USA. Killing someone over stolen property ain’t legal.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

6/14/2019 8:27 AM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

MXD wrote:

This is one of the absolute worst pieces of advise that I have ever come across. You NEVER pull a concealed firearm on someone unless the circumstances warrant that you use it. For anyone reading this, please don't ever do this. Pulling a firearm and using it on someone is the absolute last resort after everything else has failed and you believe that the only option left is his life or yours.

toostroke wrote:

So you’re trying to say if someone hits my dad with a hammer in the head and tries to run off with my bike I shouldn’t pull a gun out?

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

6/14/2019 8:54 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/14/2019 9:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/14/2019 9:10 AM

toostroke wrote:

So you’re trying to say if someone hits my dad with a hammer in the head and tries to run off with my bike I shouldn’t pull a gun out?

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

That sounds to me like you didnt grow up around guns and were not educated enough about them. Im only 46 and i used to drive to school with a shotgun in my back window daily because we shot skeet 3 days a week after school. I got in fistfights, but never considered using a gun unless my life was threatened.

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6/14/2019 9:13 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

AZRider wrote:

That sounds to me like you didnt grow up around guns and were not educated enough about them. Im only 46 and i used to drive to school with a shotgun in my back window daily because we shot skeet 3 days a week after school. I got in fistfights, but never considered using a gun unless my life was threatened.

Something tells me you wouldn’t be driving to school with a shotgun in your back window in these days of school shootings...

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6/14/2019 9:17 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

AZRider wrote:

That sounds to me like you didnt grow up around guns and were not educated enough about them. Im only 46 and i used to drive to school with a shotgun in my back window daily because we shot skeet 3 days a week after school. I got in fistfights, but never considered using a gun unless my life was threatened.

In fact I did grow up around guns, and my father educated me very well. There was always a gun readily available on our farm. I also knew to treat them with respect or my dad would kick my ass. You know nothing about me so don't make stupid assumptions.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/14/2019 10:11 AM

toostroke wrote:

So you’re trying to say if someone hits my dad with a hammer in the head and tries to run off with my bike I shouldn’t pull a gun out?

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

I was more or less just throwing a scenario out there as if his dad may have a had a gun in the truck that was accessible. Not that the kid's now days should be packing iron. Besides.....the ramp seemed to do a pretty good job.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

6/14/2019 11:09 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

jeffro503 wrote:

I was more or less just throwing a scenario out there as if his dad may have a had a gun in the truck that was accessible. Not that the kid's now days should be packing iron. Besides.....the ramp seemed to do a pretty good job.

Makes sense. And yes, the ramp did an excellent job!

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/14/2019 11:16 AM

MPJC wrote:

Forget guns, get a dog - nobody gets shot, and you have a terrific friend. I have a Doberman/Shepherd who isn't a mean and aggressive dog but she's far from friendly with strangers. It's amazing how well-behaved people are when she's with me. Door to door salespeople can't leave my doorstep fast enough. Of course I know that this isn't a perfect solution - I don't even know for sure what she would do if someone attacked me - but there is certainly a deterrent effect, at least to some extent.

They're great for the house. We have three 100lb'ers with awesome deep barks. You'd have to be suicidal to break in here.

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6/14/2019 11:28 AM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

SCR wrote:

Nobody ever has to steal anything to get food, ever. Did you hear the part where he took a hammer to the Dads head.
You are going to pull a gun on someone hoping to scare him off ? What if he doesn't scare off ? You have about 2/10 of a second before he grabs your gun, are you going to shoot him ? Remember you said it's not morally right to kill the theif who is just trying to get some food for his plate.
You better think it through a little better before you pull a gun if your intention is a bluff.
Based on what you've said I recommend you just run away if someone steals your bike or hits your pops in the head.

toostroke wrote:

4 things
Your first sentence isn’t true
Key word “Concealed” carry
If he hit my dad in the head with a hammer and doesn’t run off when I pull my gun out I’m shooting him in a non vital or life threatening part of his body in fear of him trying to do extra damage or hurt me

Also I’m not letting him run away without a fight If I don’t have one on me which would be dumb not having one

When I did my qualification shots for my CC permit we shot at human silhouette targets at 5, 7 and 10 yards. These targets do not show the body below the groin. Shooting in the leg was not endorsed as statistics indicate its hard enough in the heat of the moment to even hit someone in the trunk of their body. We were told this is true even for police officers who are generally better trained for these situations. I think you'd have to be a pretty cool character to draw on someone and have the steady hand to place a shot in the knee.

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6/14/2019 2:37 PM

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

AZRider wrote:

That sounds to me like you didnt grow up around guns and were not educated enough about them. Im only 46 and i used to drive to school with a shotgun in my back window daily because we shot skeet 3 days a week after school. I got in fistfights, but never considered using a gun unless my life was threatened.

Your dad just got hit in the head with a hammer. The person holding the hammer is still standing in front of you. That's not grounds to feel your life is under threat?

To a 16 year old that's the perfect scenario to make an life changing decision by mistake.

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6/14/2019 3:51 PM

One thing I will never forget from my LTC class Teacher (The Police Chief of 30 years in our town).

Once the bullet leaves the gun, there will be 2 Lawyers coming to see you. 1 will try to lock you up for life, the other will sue you and try to take everything you have.

Leatherfoot Karate is always the best option if you have the chance to flee and avoid. Nothing cowardly about avoiding this drama and expense and having to live with taking someone's life..

Shoot to stop the threat only. (and off the record, shoot enough times that you do not have him show up in Court to testify against you)

Never brandish a weapon unless it is time to shoot and there is just no way out of it. Do NOT make a statement, that is what your Lawyer is for and you can buy a gun insurance legal plan just for this instance. They answer the phone 24 hours a day.
Guns are a HUGE liability and an amazing equalizer but it is better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.

Even in Texas.

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6/14/2019 4:13 PM

toostroke wrote:

Besides if you think your bike is worth more than some thief’s life hang your boots up lock the bike in your garage and find a different sport

You obviously have never been around guns or been trained you just another city slicker paper pusher who thinks they know what they are taking about

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6/14/2019 5:01 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/14/2019 5:03 PM

RONJ OSE wrote:

You obviously have never been around guns or been trained you just another city slicker paper pusher who thinks they know what they are taking about

Look the area up that i live in on google earth I’m not no city slicker and yes I have been around guns know bunch of people with permits. You should know what you’re talking about and not make assumptions.

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6/14/2019 6:29 PM

toostroke wrote:

Besides if you think your bike is worth more than some thief’s life hang your boots up lock the bike in your garage and find a different sport

RONJ OSE wrote:

You obviously have never been around guns or been trained you just another city slicker paper pusher who thinks they know what they are taking about

toostroke wrote:

Look the area up that i live in on google earth I’m not no city slicker and yes I have been around guns know bunch of people with permits. You should know what you’re talking about and not make assumptions.

You know people with permits, that’s the issue you don’t have one!
Ask any military or police and they will tell you shoot to kill( center of mass) and shooting in the leg is just as bad as center of mass and it can hit a bone shatter and rip through your Artries killing you.
And when you draw you be dam ready to shoot

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6/14/2019 7:00 PM

RONJ OSE wrote:

You know people with permits, that’s the issue you don’t have one!
Ask any military or police and they will tell you shoot to kill( center of mass) and shooting in the leg is just as bad as center of mass and it can hit a bone shatter and rip through your Artries killing you.
And when you draw you be dam ready to shoot

Can’t get a permit I’m 17 but I’ll be getting one soon when I’m older

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6/14/2019 7:29 PM

Zacka 161 wrote:

As someone who has an ABI that is really scary and painful to see.

Is being a vegetable for the rest of your life because you tried to steal a bike fair punishment? No fucking way anyone that thinks it is is a fucking idiot and seems to have a ‘death penalty for any crime’ mindset and that’s fucked up.

Should the boy be punished? No fucking way he was defending his property, and retaliating to aggravated assault in a family member with non lethal force. ie. he didn’t pick up a gun and shoot to kill, that would be a different story altogether.

I do think he should take some defence training though to be able to take down thief’s more effectively without turning them into vegetables.

observeroffacts wrote:

So many people posting in here are comparing the violence to the bike and forgetting that the dude TRIED TO HIT HIS DAD WITH A HAMMER.

I’m glad you read what I wrote and didn’t skip over th part where i wrote ‘responding to an aggravated assault on a family member’.


Although does that mean ‘attacked with a hammer’ or ‘threatened with a hammer’ and then attracted when the threat was no yielded too....

To me the difference is, a drive by shooting if not successful is attempts murder, holding up a shop for money with a gun is not the same... although if he fires the gun with intent to kill then it is.... if he fires the gun at the ceiling to scare the shop keeper it’s not attempted murder.... all subtle but significant differences.

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6/14/2019 8:13 PM

toostroke wrote:

Look the area up that i live in on google earth I’m not no city slicker and yes I have been around guns know bunch of people with permits. You should know what you’re talking about and not make assumptions.

RONJ OSE wrote:

You know people with permits, that’s the issue you don’t have one!
Ask any military or police and they will tell you shoot to kill( center of mass) and shooting in the leg is just as bad as center of mass and it can hit a bone shatter and rip through your Artries killing you.
And when you draw you be dam ready to shoot

toostroke wrote:

Can’t get a permit I’m 17 but I’ll be getting one soon when I’m older

Well some one should teach you some lessons before you go out and get a gun/ccp
And I think age for a ccp is 21
Go take a local range class, most PD will put on free training once a month

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6/14/2019 8:35 PM

Also, I guarantee you that if this person dies, that kid will have a sense of guilt. Taking a life, even under these circumstances where he felt threatened for his safety and his father's, is a heavy burden.

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6/14/2019 9:17 PM

RONJ OSE wrote:

Well some one should teach you some lessons before you go out and get a gun/ccp
And I think age for a ccp is 21
Go take a local range class, most PD will put on free training once a month

I’m pretty sure you have to go to a class or get lessons in NJ to get a gun/ccp . Not 100% sure though. Thanks for the free training info though

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6/15/2019 12:39 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

There are a lot of things a person could do. What these guy's are saying to you in here is.....don't pull your gun on anyone unless you are fully prepared to use it........ever! I guess every situation is different , but at the very moment a robber starts hitting you or anyone else with a hammer , that would have been the time to shoot the piece of shit. The kid used what was at his disposal , a motorcycle ramp. It seemed to do the job.

But what if it didn't.......and then the robber really came after you hard with the hammer? I think this is kind of split second action the kid thought off , so even though the robber went down , he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get back up.

If the kid had a gun at his disposal during that attack , he would have had every right to shoot the robber. But if the robber is flee'ing and you shoot him as he's running away.....well then , that's a different story. Either way......this story ended up with a happy ending. Dad is probably ok , kid is ok and kept his bike from being stolen.....and the robber is laying there with brain chunks on the pavement.

MPJC wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything said in this post, but found it very jarring to read "if the kid had a gun". I'm no anti-gun activist by any stretch but the word "kid" stood out to me. The thought of arming kids - especially remembering how bad my judgment was when I was a kid - sounds like a scary proposition.

AZRider wrote:

That sounds to me like you didnt grow up around guns and were not educated enough about them. Im only 46 and i used to drive to school with a shotgun in my back window daily because we shot skeet 3 days a week after school. I got in fistfights, but never considered using a gun unless my life was threatened.

That being said..
I live in a one of the largest cities in the world, we have no guns..
Only 3 people died from gunshots last year in the whole year, from a city of 38 million people
Just google some of the cities in the US, you will be astounded

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6/15/2019 12:44 AM

110% okay. Thieves have it coming and deserve everything they get

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