Dirt bike thief gets conked in the head with a loading ramp

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6/13/2019 7:07 PM

Use a ramp, go to jail. Yup...

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6/13/2019 7:19 PM

As someone who has an ABI that is really scary and painful to see.

Is being a vegetable for the rest of your life because you tried to steal a bike fair punishment? No fucking way anyone that thinks it is is a fucking idiot and seems to have a ‘death penalty for any crime’ mindset and that’s fucked up.

Should the boy be punished? No fucking way he was defending his property, and retaliating to aggravated assault in a family member with non lethal force. ie. he didn’t pick up a gun and shoot to kill, that would be a different story altogether.

I do think he should take some defence training though to be able to take down thief’s more effectively without turning them into vegetables.

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6/13/2019 7:34 PM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

Nobody ever has to steal anything to get food, ever. Did you hear the part where he took a hammer to the Dads head.
You are going to pull a gun on someone hoping to scare him off ? What if he doesn't scare off ? You have about 2/10 of a second before he grabs your gun, are you going to shoot him ? Remember you said it's not morally right to kill the theif who is just trying to get some food for his plate.
You better think it through a little better before you pull a gun if your intention is a bluff.
Based on what you've said I recommend you just run away if someone steals your bike or hits your pops in the head.

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6/13/2019 7:43 PM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

SCR wrote:

Nobody ever has to steal anything to get food, ever. Did you hear the part where he took a hammer to the Dads head.
You are going to pull a gun on someone hoping to scare him off ? What if he doesn't scare off ? You have about 2/10 of a second before he grabs your gun, are you going to shoot him ? Remember you said it's not morally right to kill the theif who is just trying to get some food for his plate.
You better think it through a little better before you pull a gun if your intention is a bluff.
Based on what you've said I recommend you just run away if someone steals your bike or hits your pops in the head.

I missed the part where he toook a hammer to his dads head?

He hit his dad with a hammer but i never heard or read head anywhere but in your comment... I could be wrong though. The fact that the dad and some were discharged from hospital so quickly leads me to believe it was either a toy hammer or their was zero head contact with said hammer...

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6/13/2019 7:44 PM

SCR wrote:

Nobody ever has to steal anything to get food, ever. Did you hear the part where he took a hammer to the Dads head.
You are going to pull a gun on someone hoping to scare him off ? What if he doesn't scare off ? You have about 2/10 of a second before he grabs your gun, are you going to shoot him ? Remember you said it's not morally right to kill the theif who is just trying to get some food for his plate.
You better think it through a little better before you pull a gun if your intention is a bluff.
Based on what you've said I recommend you just run away if someone steals your bike or hits your pops in the head.

4 things
Your first sentence isn’t true
Key word “Concealed” carry
If he hit my dad in the head with a hammer and doesn’t run off when I pull my gun out I’m shooting him in a non vital or life threatening part of his body in fear of him trying to do extra damage or hurt me

Also I’m not letting him run away without a fight If I don’t have one on me which would be dumb not having one

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6/13/2019 8:07 PM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

SCR wrote:

Nobody ever has to steal anything to get food, ever. Did you hear the part where he took a hammer to the Dads head.
You are going to pull a gun on someone hoping to scare him off ? What if he doesn't scare off ? You have about 2/10 of a second before he grabs your gun, are you going to shoot him ? Remember you said it's not morally right to kill the theif who is just trying to get some food for his plate.
You better think it through a little better before you pull a gun if your intention is a bluff.
Based on what you've said I recommend you just run away if someone steals your bike or hits your pops in the head.

toostroke wrote:

4 things
Your first sentence isn’t true
Key word “Concealed” carry
If he hit my dad in the head with a hammer and doesn’t run off when I pull my gun out I’m shooting him in a non vital or life threatening part of his body in fear of him trying to do extra damage or hurt me

Also I’m not letting him run away without a fight If I don’t have one on me which would be dumb not having one

If he hits your dad in the head with a hammer and you don't aim for his chest, you aren't the son I want. And I think you mean really well and care about people, I think you are a good guy at heart. My son would aim for his head but I would prefer an easier target.

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6/13/2019 8:09 PM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

SCR wrote:

Nobody ever has to steal anything to get food, ever. Did you hear the part where he took a hammer to the Dads head.
You are going to pull a gun on someone hoping to scare him off ? What if he doesn't scare off ? You have about 2/10 of a second before he grabs your gun, are you going to shoot him ? Remember you said it's not morally right to kill the theif who is just trying to get some food for his plate.
You better think it through a little better before you pull a gun if your intention is a bluff.
Based on what you've said I recommend you just run away if someone steals your bike or hits your pops in the head.

toostroke wrote:

4 things
Your first sentence isn’t true
Key word “Concealed” carry
If he hit my dad in the head with a hammer and doesn’t run off when I pull my gun out I’m shooting him in a non vital or life threatening part of his body in fear of him trying to do extra damage or hurt me

Also I’m not letting him run away without a fight If I don’t have one on me which would be dumb not having one

My mistake. Sounds like a good plan. Good luck.

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6/13/2019 8:21 PM

This thread would have sure enough go to 50 pages it the guy that got bonked on the head was trying to offer to clean a set 12 Motocross boots and the own thought he was stealing them.!!!!!

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6/13/2019 8:24 PM

Hoseclamp wrote:

You dont pull a gun to scare someone. If its serious enough to clear leather you better mean business.

Gworm wrote:

Absolutely, and you don't shoot to injure.

toostroke wrote:

That’s the dumbest thing I heard on vital yet. You don’t have to shoot to kill you can easily shoot his leg if you feel your life is in danger. call 911 and make sure he stays alive by applying pressure to the wound

You don't know what you don't know... If you actually have a concealed carry permit, you either had an idiot for an instructor or you just sat in class blowing bubbles in your milk.

The ONLY reason you should Ever pull a gun is if you are in fear for your life, and if you do, you put two center mass and two in the head. Pulling a gun to "scare" someone is idiotic..At the least, you'll go to jail just for that, and at the worst you"ll get yourself shot.


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6/13/2019 8:36 PM

Gworm wrote:

Absolutely, and you don't shoot to injure.

toostroke wrote:

That’s the dumbest thing I heard on vital yet. You don’t have to shoot to kill you can easily shoot his leg if you feel your life is in danger. call 911 and make sure he stays alive by applying pressure to the wound

keepoffgrass wrote:

Give up mate. You can't talk sense with gun enthusiasts who are looking for any excuse to discharge their weapon.

Nope, not looking for "any excuse to discharge" my weapon. Just not stupid enough to pull it "scare" someone.

If there is no reason to use it, it stays put.

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6/13/2019 8:37 PM

Gworm wrote:

You don't know what you don't know... If you actually have a concealed carry permit, you either had an idiot for an instructor or you just sat in class blowing bubbles in your milk.

The ONLY reason you should Ever pull a gun is if you are in fear for your life, and if you do, you put two center mass and two in the head. Pulling a gun to "scare" someone is idiotic..At the least, you'll go to jail just for that, and at the worst you"ll get yourself shot.


You don’t seem to get the point if I pull the gun out and he runs what’s the point of shooting? You don’t have to shoot when his back is towards you. Now if I feel he is going to retaliate then id shoot but otherwise no

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6/13/2019 8:41 PM

FortyHat wrote:

If he hits your dad in the head with a hammer and you don't aim for his chest, you aren't the son I want. And I think you mean really well and care about people, I think you are a good guy at heart. My son would aim for his head but I would prefer an easier target.

We all grew up differently I’m pretty sure my dad wouldn’t care about getting hit in the head if I were to take the thief’s life. He’d feel bad and We would be in guilt our whole life. Now if the thief wanted to kill him I’d understand and he’d understand that it was the thief or him staying alive so I’d have to shoot

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6/13/2019 8:46 PM

toostroke wrote:

That’s the dumbest thing I heard on vital yet. You don’t have to shoot to kill you can easily shoot his leg if you feel your life is in danger. call 911 and make sure he stays alive by applying pressure to the wound

Gworm wrote:

You don't know what you don't know... If you actually have a concealed carry permit, you either had an idiot for an instructor or you just sat in class blowing bubbles in your milk.

The ONLY reason you should Ever pull a gun is if you are in fear for your life, and if you do, you put two center mass and two in the head. Pulling a gun to "scare" someone is idiotic..At the least, you'll go to jail just for that, and at the worst you"ll get yourself shot.


toostroke wrote:

You don’t seem to get the point if I pull the gun out and he runs what’s the point of shooting? You don’t have to shoot when his back is towards you. Now if I feel he is going to retaliate then id shoot but otherwise no

Where did I say you shoot when his back is turned towards you?

Of course, if he runs, you scared him off, and you don;t shoot him. But if he escalates the situation to the point you fear for your life, don't just injure him.

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6/13/2019 8:54 PM

Gworm wrote:

Where did I say you shoot when his back is turned towards you?

Of course, if he runs, you scared him off, and you don;t shoot him. But if he escalates the situation to the point you fear for your life, don't just injure him.

I may not be 100% correct on this but if you shoot someone in their leg or somewhere near there it will be enough for them to fall or react to the impact and not be able to charge me unless they’re a maniac. Therefore, he’s on the floor he’s not gonna die and I’m safe and I won’t have to worry about nothing.

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6/13/2019 8:57 PM

But if the guy were to pull a gun or was super close with a knife I wouldn’t go for the legs I’d have to shoot in the vital areas of the body

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6/13/2019 9:07 PM

blockhead17 wrote:

He could have killed the guy which is definitely not ok.
THAT BEING SAID.. if I was in the same situation I probably would have done the same thing. I think the kid will be ok, he just reacted poorly and will probably get a scare going through court etc.

I disagree. He didn’t react poorly - he’s a kid. I thought he acted admirably. If I were his father I would be brimming with pride - on the inside of ‘course.

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6/13/2019 9:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/13/2019 9:26 PM

toostroke wrote:

You don’t seem to get the point if I pull the gun out and he runs what’s the point of shooting? You don’t have to shoot when his back is towards you. Now if I feel he is going to retaliate then id shoot but otherwise no

Gworm wrote:

Where did I say you shoot when his back is turned towards you?

Of course, if he runs, you scared him off, and you don;t shoot him. But if he escalates the situation to the point you fear for your life, don't just injure him.

toostroke wrote:

I may not be 100% correct on this but if you shoot someone in their leg or somewhere near there it will be enough for them to fall or react to the impact and not be able to charge me unless they’re a maniac. Therefore, he’s on the floor he’s not gonna die and I’m safe and I won’t have to worry about nothing.

The only thing you'll have to worry about then is the story he tells in court about how it was all your fault and he did nothing to provoke you. Dead men tell no lies.

What started all this is you saying to just pull the gun out to scare him. That's where you're wrong. If you just want to carry to scare people, go the whole Barney Fife route and just carry one round with you and leave that round in your shirt pocket. But you won't survive long.


You said in one post I was retarded for wanting to kill people for taking my stuff. I never said that. While I think this kid was justified cracking the thief's skull with the ramp, I think he should not have beat on him after he was down. Nor do I think he should have pulled a gun to scare him.

And it's not about the stealing, it's about hitting his dad with the hammer.

The point is, pulling a gun is some serious crap. You don't do it unless you legitimately fear for your life, and if that's the case, you are probably past the point of scaring him.

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6/13/2019 9:19 PM

toostroke wrote:

But if the guy were to pull a gun or was super close with a knife I wouldn’t go for the legs I’d have to shoot in the vital areas of the body

If you have a gun pulled on him and he gets his gun out, you're more than likely going to die, and I wouldn't be too sure about your chances if he has a knife.

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6/13/2019 9:25 PM

Gworm wrote:

If you have a gun pulled on him and he gets his gun out, you're more than likely going to die, and I wouldn't be too sure about your chances if he has a knife.

Not if you shoot first in the right place

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6/13/2019 9:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/13/2019 9:35 PM

toostroke wrote:

But if the guy were to pull a gun or was super close with a knife I wouldn’t go for the legs I’d have to shoot in the vital areas of the body

Gworm wrote:

If you have a gun pulled on him and he gets his gun out, you're more than likely going to die, and I wouldn't be too sure about your chances if he has a knife.

toostroke wrote:

Not if you shoot first in the right place

But you can't count on me to be there.



The point is, if your gun is already out, and he's not shot before his gun clears leather, your still going to be deciding whether or not to shoot, and which leg to shoot, or maybe go ahead and hit a vital part, but which one, while you're bleeding out.

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6/13/2019 9:29 PM

Gworm wrote:

The only thing you'll have to worry about then is the story he tells in court about how it was all your fault and he did nothing to provoke you. Dead men tell no lies.

What started all this is you saying to just pull the gun out to scare him. That's where you're wrong. If you just want to carry to scare people, go the whole Barney Fife route and just carry one round with you and leave that round in your shirt pocket. But you won't survive long.


You said in one post I was retarded for wanting to kill people for taking my stuff. I never said that. While I think this kid was justified cracking the thief's skull with the ramp, I think he should not have beat on him after he was down. Nor do I think he should have pulled a gun to scare him.

And it's not about the stealing, it's about hitting his dad with the hammer.

The point is, pulling a gun is some serious crap. You don't do it unless you legitimately fear for your life, and if that's the case, you are probably past the point of scaring him.

What I was meaning to say is that if he hit my dad and try to run off with the bike I would pull the gun out and hopefully he would get scared and drop the bike and run off so things don’t escalate. Now if he is still running off and I know he doesn’t have weapons I would chase him down and resort to a fist fight. But if he is going for the hit on my dad or charged me again I would resort to a shot in his leg. But if he pulls a gun out or chases me with a knife I’d have to shoot where ever I can in order to protect my self and my dad

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6/13/2019 9:32 PM

I just don’t agree with the other people in this post views on “oh yeah he stole my bike whatever he deserves to die”, “oh he hit my dad with a hammer boohoo I have to hit him with 50 bullets and sniper rifle shot”.

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6/13/2019 9:34 PM

Gworm wrote:

But you can't count on me to be there.



The point is, if your gun is already out, and he's not shot before his gun clears leather, your still going to be deciding whether or not to shoot, and which leg to shoot, or maybe go ahead and hit a vital part, but which one, while you're bleeding out.

Never mind dude you’re just getting me confused have a good night

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6/13/2019 9:39 PM

Pop, pop, pop!

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/13/2019 9:40 PM

.45 killed him with one, but you gotta make sure.

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/13/2019 10:04 PM

A few points:
When the kid attacked the father with the hammer it was "attempted murder"and "assault with a deadly weapon".
When the kid reached for the hammer the son was in "imenent danger" and "in fear for his life"
When the son hit the kid using the ramp, he was using "sufficient and nessecarry force to repel his attacker".
When the son punched the kid while he was laying face down on the ground, it could be construed to be "unreasonable force". This could be charged as a crime but I feel it is unlikely in this case.

As for fighting and shooting:
I have studied, trained in and taught martial arts for 50 years and I do have some experience in this matter. Also I was competetive shooter and competed with pistols, rifles and shotguns. So I do have a qualified opinion on this as well.
Most people tend to overestimate their fighting abilities. If you are trained as a martial artist, boxer, wrestler or in military hand to hand combat you obviously are better equipped for such a situation. But it still requires practice and experience. Someone who has been in many fights and is accustomed to violence will react quicker and forcefully. You could still loose. Also there can be a high price for victory. You can win and still be injured or be charged criminally.

As for the shooting:
Most law enforcement shots fired miss. I forget the exact statistic but it is something like 3 shots out of 15 hit the target. SEALS, Special forces and Swat personnel practice shooting continuously just for this reason.
You do not display your weapon if you are not prepared to use it. Displaying a weapon can escalate the situation.That does not mean you shoot every time you pull it out. Further you shoot for center of mass not to kill. Head shots are for the SEALS as they are specially trainded for that. Killing maybe the result of shooting correctly. You defiantly do not want to state that you shot with intent to kill. Also if you were to shoot you continue to fire until the threat is neutralized. You can shoot and wound someone and they can still hurt or kill you.

Finally no one really knows how they will react when confronted with a sudden dangerous situation. Special training increases the odds that you react as trained but experience critical as well.

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6/13/2019 10:20 PM

OLDMOTO wrote:

A few points:
When the kid attacked the father with the hammer it was "attempted murder"and "assault with a deadly weapon".
When the kid reached for the hammer the son was in "imenent danger" and "in fear for his life"
When the son hit the kid using the ramp, he was using "sufficient and nessecarry force to repel his attacker".
When the son punched the kid while he was laying face down on the ground, it could be construed to be "unreasonable force". This could be charged as a crime but I feel it is unlikely in this case.

As for fighting and shooting:
I have studied, trained in and taught martial arts for 50 years and I do have some experience in this matter. Also I was competetive shooter and competed with pistols, rifles and shotguns. So I do have a qualified opinion on this as well.
Most people tend to overestimate their fighting abilities. If you are trained as a martial artist, boxer, wrestler or in military hand to hand combat you obviously are better equipped for such a situation. But it still requires practice and experience. Someone who has been in many fights and is accustomed to violence will react quicker and forcefully. You could still loose. Also there can be a high price for victory. You can win and still be injured or be charged criminally.

As for the shooting:
Most law enforcement shots fired miss. I forget the exact statistic but it is something like 3 shots out of 15 hit the target. SEALS, Special forces and Swat personnel practice shooting continuously just for this reason.
You do not display your weapon if you are not prepared to use it. Displaying a weapon can escalate the situation.That does not mean you shoot every time you pull it out. Further you shoot for center of mass not to kill. Head shots are for the SEALS as they are specially trainded for that. Killing maybe the result of shooting correctly. You defiantly do not want to state that you shot with intent to kill. Also if you were to shoot you continue to fire until the threat is neutralized. You can shoot and wound someone and they can still hurt or kill you.

Finally no one really knows how they will react when confronted with a sudden dangerous situation. Special training increases the odds that you react as trained but experience critical as well.

Sums it up nicely.

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I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train

6/14/2019 1:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/14/2019 1:02 AM

I hope his dad is ok, and that the kid will be innocented. The thief, well, he got what he deserved.

Here is what i was telling to people I was selling bikes or parts to that I was feeling were quite shaddy (always talk and talk nice and ask questions to know the people you are dealing with), just as a message in this nice discussion :

" MX bikes robbers are suicidos. It is like trying to rob a gun to a hunter, that is not a good idea. MX people are plain crazy since they are kids, they jump and sometimes crash on 100ft table tops at 60mph and robbers think it is a good idea to visit them ... Good luck getting out of the house, and good luck sleeping on both ears when they know the robber identity after being caught someday."

I was also telling my bike was not here but at another place, but in the end my garage with a light door and not attached bikes have never been forced.

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6/14/2019 5:00 AM

Zacka 161 wrote:

As someone who has an ABI that is really scary and painful to see.

Is being a vegetable for the rest of your life because you tried to steal a bike fair punishment? No fucking way anyone that thinks it is is a fucking idiot and seems to have a ‘death penalty for any crime’ mindset and that’s fucked up.

Should the boy be punished? No fucking way he was defending his property, and retaliating to aggravated assault in a family member with non lethal force. ie. he didn’t pick up a gun and shoot to kill, that would be a different story altogether.

I do think he should take some defence training though to be able to take down thief’s more effectively without turning them into vegetables.

So many people posting in here are comparing the violence to the bike and forgetting that the dude TRIED TO HIT HIS DAD WITH A HAMMER.

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6/14/2019 6:28 AM

toostroke wrote:

It’s not morally right to try to kill the thief. I know it’s wrong but that’s how some people have to get food in their plates. That’s why you should get a gun and pull it out in hopes to scare him off. Take advantage of Concealed Carry in the USA

This is one of the absolute worst pieces of advise that I have ever come across. You NEVER pull a concealed firearm on someone unless the circumstances warrant that you use it. For anyone reading this, please don't ever do this. Pulling a firearm and using it on someone is the absolute last resort after everything else has failed and you believe that the only option left is his life or yours.

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