Dirt bike thief gets conked in the head with a loading ramp

MPJC
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6/12/2019 3:10pm
I'm playing along. Wait, what was a loading ramp doing in a boxing ring? Is Mike Tyson the hammer or the son? Was the blood from...
I'm playing along.

Wait, what was a loading ramp doing in a boxing ring? Is Mike Tyson the hammer or the son? Was the blood from an ear bite? I'm so confused.

Of course I wouldn't fight Mike Tyson in a boxing ring under normal regulations. I'd stand a much better chance out in the open with no rules and the element of surprise. Maybe a swift kick to the nuts would fix his voice while I run away to safety.
MPJC wrote:
I think your point must have escaped me. Mine was simply that one on one does not indicate even odds. Related to that, our odds of...
I think your point must have escaped me. Mine was simply that one on one does not indicate even odds. Related to that, our odds of doing well in a fight - whether in a ring or elsewhere - are likely much lower than we think. 93% of people think they’re above average drivers. Some of them are wrong, though none think so.
My point is that you used a strict set of guidelines (Justin Bieber in a BOXING RING with Mike Tyson) to explain why you think the...
My point is that you used a strict set of guidelines (Justin Bieber in a BOXING RING with Mike Tyson) to explain why you think the odds would be stacked against a person in a robbery situation. It's so out of context I can't explain it any better if you don't already understand why it's a poor comparison.

It's an apples to oranges argument. I just don't know who has the apples and who has the oranges. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Odds are exactly that. Before the fight starts you will ALWAYS have a 50/50 chance.
Good lord. Clearly I’m the dumb one here.
6/12/2019 3:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 3:21pm
MPJC wrote:
I think your point must have escaped me. Mine was simply that one on one does not indicate even odds. Related to that, our odds of...
I think your point must have escaped me. Mine was simply that one on one does not indicate even odds. Related to that, our odds of doing well in a fight - whether in a ring or elsewhere - are likely much lower than we think. 93% of people think they’re above average drivers. Some of them are wrong, though none think so.
My point is that you used a strict set of guidelines (Justin Bieber in a BOXING RING with Mike Tyson) to explain why you think the...
My point is that you used a strict set of guidelines (Justin Bieber in a BOXING RING with Mike Tyson) to explain why you think the odds would be stacked against a person in a robbery situation. It's so out of context I can't explain it any better if you don't already understand why it's a poor comparison.

It's an apples to oranges argument. I just don't know who has the apples and who has the oranges. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Odds are exactly that. Before the fight starts you will ALWAYS have a 50/50 chance.
MPJC wrote:
Good lord. Clearly I’m the dumb one here.
I'm not trying to argue with you. Once the fight starts or you get hit with the first Tyson punch to the face those odds change. That's why Dad stopped fighting. He got hit with a fucking hammer. Son, on the other hand, still had good odds and he was rewarded with his quick decision making. Element of surprise. You can't surprise a professional boxer in a square ring who shows up knowing he's going to fight. A criminal with a hammer in a parking lot? Clearly, he didn't show up expecting a fight.
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byke
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6/12/2019 3:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 3:24pm
jeffro503 wrote:
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years. Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your...
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years.

Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your stuff.....it's only stuff ".

My generation DID NOT act this way! I'm not sure if it's the over abundance of fucking soy milk , or dude's just to weak to stand up for themseleve's......and it did NOT used to be like that. It was even worse in my day if you knew the fucker! I had a dude steal my BMX. I knew it was him , so I put the word out that my mom was going to pay $100.00 for the return of my bike. Next day , the thieving piece of shit comes riding down the street to my house and said he recovered my bike.....wants my mom to pay. I got this big smirk on my face and beat the living shit out of that asshole! Like worse than normal! Because when you're 14 years old , your BMX is everything , and it made it even worse I knew the piece of shit!
You're only looking at half of it. My generation was able to fist fight without kicking people in the face when they went down. So yeah, people are more willing to give up their shit, but it's because assailants have no real code they live by and it used to be that you had a really good chance of not being murdered if you refused to give up your stuff, but it's literally flip a fucking coin these days. You can live in today's generation with your older generation philosophies if you wanted to, but if you were mugged on the reg, your time would run out much faster than if you adjusted yourself to today.
2
1
GrapeApe
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6/12/2019 3:25pm
jeffro503 wrote:
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years. Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your...
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years.

Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your stuff.....it's only stuff ".

My generation DID NOT act this way! I'm not sure if it's the over abundance of fucking soy milk , or dude's just to weak to stand up for themseleve's......and it did NOT used to be like that. It was even worse in my day if you knew the fucker! I had a dude steal my BMX. I knew it was him , so I put the word out that my mom was going to pay $100.00 for the return of my bike. Next day , the thieving piece of shit comes riding down the street to my house and said he recovered my bike.....wants my mom to pay. I got this big smirk on my face and beat the living shit out of that asshole! Like worse than normal! Because when you're 14 years old , your BMX is everything , and it made it even worse I knew the piece of shit!
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let him die, only a couple say otherwise. Every single one of your posts is about what a badass you are and what pussies society has become, while making up fake stories to support your position. Stop watching cable news.
3

The Shop

MPJC
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6/12/2019 3:31pm
My point is that you used a strict set of guidelines (Justin Bieber in a BOXING RING with Mike Tyson) to explain why you think the...
My point is that you used a strict set of guidelines (Justin Bieber in a BOXING RING with Mike Tyson) to explain why you think the odds would be stacked against a person in a robbery situation. It's so out of context I can't explain it any better if you don't already understand why it's a poor comparison.

It's an apples to oranges argument. I just don't know who has the apples and who has the oranges. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Odds are exactly that. Before the fight starts you will ALWAYS have a 50/50 chance.
MPJC wrote:
Good lord. Clearly I’m the dumb one here.
I'm not trying to argue with you. Once the fight starts or you get hit with the first Tyson punch to the face those odds change...
I'm not trying to argue with you. Once the fight starts or you get hit with the first Tyson punch to the face those odds change. That's why Dad stopped fighting. He got hit with a fucking hammer. Son, on the other hand, still had good odds and he was rewarded with his quick decision making. Element of surprise. You can't surprise a professional boxer in a square ring who shows up knowing he's going to fight. A criminal with a hammer in a parking lot? Clearly, he didn't show up expecting a fight.
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what you need, not a coin. If, say, we know that one person is trained (eg. military) and the other is not then we know that the military person has an advantage. He’s apt to be trained to deal with surprises and to be aware enough of his surroundings to not give you a chance to use whatever weapon is available. The problem in a street fight is you probably lack the background knowledge so you can’t realistically gauge your odds - especially if you’re not very familiar with your own ability. The fact that you can’t calculate them due to lack of knowledge doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And they may be stacked badly against you. The only difference with the Tyson\Bieber example is that it seems preposterous given our background knowledge. That illustrates the point about the relevance of background knowledge and prior probabilities.
1
captmoto
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6/12/2019 4:07pm
Here's how I see it. The blow from the ramp is justified. Once the crook is down and not a threat the blows to the head can be looked at as a crime. No element of self defense there.
1
1
CivBars
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6/12/2019 4:21pm
jeffro503 wrote:
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years. Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your...
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years.

Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your stuff.....it's only stuff ".

My generation DID NOT act this way! I'm not sure if it's the over abundance of fucking soy milk , or dude's just to weak to stand up for themseleve's......and it did NOT used to be like that. It was even worse in my day if you knew the fucker! I had a dude steal my BMX. I knew it was him , so I put the word out that my mom was going to pay $100.00 for the return of my bike. Next day , the thieving piece of shit comes riding down the street to my house and said he recovered my bike.....wants my mom to pay. I got this big smirk on my face and beat the living shit out of that asshole! Like worse than normal! Because when you're 14 years old , your BMX is everything , and it made it even worse I knew the piece of shit!
GrapeApe wrote:
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let...
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let him die, only a couple say otherwise. Every single one of your posts is about what a badass you are and what pussies society has become, while making up fake stories to support your position. Stop watching cable news.
Hey! You guys go to time out and when you're ready I have 2 motorcycle ramps for the both of you's and we can settle this.

While this is a pretty serious matter I'm just going to try my best to provide some comedic relief.

Excuse while I slowly back away with wide eyes and an upset tummy. Can everyone please stop yelling?
Lucifa.
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6/12/2019 4:25pm
That kid just put himself in prison. He should of stopped after "ramping" the would be thief.

Having video evidence didn't help him also.
2
Infamous
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Howe, TX US
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6/12/2019 4:31pm
captmoto wrote:
Here's how I see it. The blow from the ramp is justified. Once the crook is down and not a threat the blows to the head...
Here's how I see it. The blow from the ramp is justified. Once the crook is down and not a threat the blows to the head can be looked at as a crime. No element of self defense there.
Emotion. Ever seen your dad take a claw hammer to the head? Would you be so calm?

I speak ONLY for me. I'd have done the same EXACT thing. In the moment, My DAD was attacked with a HAMMER and is down. Again, speaking only for me, had someone done that to my Dad (who is now gone, RIP), I'd have likely had to be be pulled off of him.

If that makes me a bad person, put me away, but I think that's a pretty natural response when your father is harmed. I salute his response. He wasn't defending a theft at that point, but keeping an assailant from further harming his father. Good on you, son.
4
mx900
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6/12/2019 4:34pm
What has happened to this country? At what point did it become ok for people to do whatever they want to people, Talk to people anyway they want,. Act anyway they want and when someone stands up to them they become a victim?

I am surprised someone did not say they should have just gave them the bikes, Because its not fair they could not have dirt bikes also.

1
byke
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6/12/2019 4:39pm
mx900 wrote:
What has happened to this country? At what point did it become ok for people to do whatever they want to people, Talk to people anyway...
What has happened to this country? At what point did it become ok for people to do whatever they want to people, Talk to people anyway they want,. Act anyway they want and when someone stands up to them they become a victim?

I am surprised someone did not say they should have just gave them the bikes, Because its not fair they could not have dirt bikes also.

You're using broad statements to try and control opinions on a specific event. It doesn't work that way. People have accomplished amazing things. Nature is wonderful. Doesn't we have to love Hitler and Cujo.
1
mx900
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6/12/2019 4:51pm
mx900 wrote:
What has happened to this country? At what point did it become ok for people to do whatever they want to people, Talk to people anyway...
What has happened to this country? At what point did it become ok for people to do whatever they want to people, Talk to people anyway they want,. Act anyway they want and when someone stands up to them they become a victim?

I am surprised someone did not say they should have just gave them the bikes, Because its not fair they could not have dirt bikes also.

byke wrote:
You're using broad statements to try and control opinions on a specific event. It doesn't work that way. People have accomplished amazing things. Nature is wonderful...
You're using broad statements to try and control opinions on a specific event. It doesn't work that way. People have accomplished amazing things. Nature is wonderful. Doesn't we have to love Hitler and Cujo.
What does that even mean?

In Nature if a animal is attacked then what do you think the outcome will be? Just guessing they attack back.
DanDunes818
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6/12/2019 5:13pm
I definitely do not in any way condone killing someone over a dirt bike, but if a guy hit my pops with a hammer, then came at me with it, I would pick up the first weapon I could find (in this instance a loading ramp) and have zero issue with hitting the guy over the head with it. BUT, once I saw the damage it caused, I would never jump on the dude and start pretending I'm an MMA fighter practicing my ground and pound on an unconscious person. I think that part says something about this kid.

Do I feel sorry for the thief? Not even a little.

And to the people misinterpreting that every person that backs the kid thinks killing someone over a dirt bike is okay, I think you're missing the point that the thief is the one that brought a deadly weapon to this battle. The other dude just brought a ramp to unload the bike and I guarantee you when he threw it in the back of his truck, the last thing he envisioned was it being used to kill someone.
9
piscokid
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6/12/2019 5:43pm
In the video [url=http://longisland.news12.com/story/40613242/police-online-sale-leads-to-attempted-motorbike-theft-3-hospitalized]here[/url] you'll see a medic tending to the kids dad and it appears he's bandaged on the left side of his head. I...
In the video here you'll see a medic tending to the kids dad and it appears he's bandaged on the left side of his head. I believe he's the guy you see walk back up to the back of the truck as the kid whacks the guy with the ramp. When the kid yells "he hit my Dad with a hammer" he points in this guys direction.

Also you'll see the medics tending to the perp. He's sitting up and conscious. Then they show him being loaded in the ambulance.

There's a shot of the ramp and a claw hammer laying on the pavement.

So if the guy hits this kids Dad in the head with a hammer; to me that assault with deadly force and a comparable response would be justified.
It looks like to me the medic is tending the thief. Watch the OP video. The dude in the white t-shirt is the one who gets conked on the head.....
byke
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6/12/2019 6:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 6:08pm
Not to digress, but the cultural embedment of consumerism in this country cannot be denied. It's great that you may not worship the material gods, but it's a dominant aspect of our society. If it's not insanely visible, it could be that an idealistic view of America is casting too strong of a shadow to see through.
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1
jeffro503
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6/12/2019 6:35pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2019 7:44am
jeffro503 wrote:
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years. Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your...
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years.

Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your stuff.....it's only stuff ".

My generation DID NOT act this way! I'm not sure if it's the over abundance of fucking soy milk , or dude's just to weak to stand up for themseleve's......and it did NOT used to be like that. It was even worse in my day if you knew the fucker! I had a dude steal my BMX. I knew it was him , so I put the word out that my mom was going to pay $100.00 for the return of my bike. Next day , the thieving piece of shit comes riding down the street to my house and said he recovered my bike.....wants my mom to pay. I got this big smirk on my face and beat the living shit out of that asshole! Like worse than normal! Because when you're 14 years old , your BMX is everything , and it made it even worse I knew the piece of shit!
GrapeApe wrote:
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let...
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let him die, only a couple say otherwise. Every single one of your posts is about what a badass you are and what pussies society has become, while making up fake stories to support your position. Stop watching cable news.
God damn Grapeape's comment pissed me off last night , and I shouldn't have went off like that. Apologizes to the board.

I don't even know if it's a generation's type thing ( about just bending the knee and giving your stuff to whoever is robbing you ) compared to people who fight to protect their loved one's and personal property.
7
15
Casting
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6/12/2019 6:54pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 7:08pm
jeffro503 wrote:
God damn Grapeape's comment pissed me off last night , and I shouldn't have went off like that. Apologizes to the board. I don't even know...
God damn Grapeape's comment pissed me off last night , and I shouldn't have went off like that. Apologizes to the board.

I don't even know if it's a generation's type thing ( about just bending the knee and giving your stuff to whoever is robbing you ) compared to people who fight to protect their loved one's and personal property.
Ah nevermind...
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5
6/12/2019 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 7:03pm
MPJC wrote:
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what...
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what you need, not a coin. If, say, we know that one person is trained (eg. military) and the other is not then we know that the military person has an advantage. He’s apt to be trained to deal with surprises and to be aware enough of his surroundings to not give you a chance to use whatever weapon is available. The problem in a street fight is you probably lack the background knowledge so you can’t realistically gauge your odds - especially if you’re not very familiar with your own ability. The fact that you can’t calculate them due to lack of knowledge doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And they may be stacked badly against you. The only difference with the Tyson\Bieber example is that it seems preposterous given our background knowledge. That illustrates the point about the relevance of background knowledge and prior probabilities.
It's math bro. I don't know what to tell you.

I don't know you so therefore you have a 50% chance of belonging to the LGBTQ community if I ask. You either A) do, or B ) do not. Those are the possibilities.

You get in a fight. You either A) kick ass, or B ) get your ass kicked. Those are the possibilities. The odds don't change until a variable is encountered that changes the probability. In this case, the variable is a hammer and a loading ramp.

We're not talking about who has a better chance at winning based on training and skills and what a Vegas bookie would put for a spread. We're talking about the possible outcomes of an encounter before a person makes their decision to stand up to the would be robber. You either A) get robbed, or B ) don't get robbed. Those are the possibilities. 50/50.
1
Jrewing
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6/12/2019 7:04pm
captmoto wrote:
Here's how I see it. The blow from the ramp is justified. Once the crook is down and not a threat the blows to the head...
Here's how I see it. The blow from the ramp is justified. Once the crook is down and not a threat the blows to the head can be looked at as a crime. No element of self defense there.
I agree it wasnt needed for self defence.... the one whilst on the ground was for his dad and his dirtbike and in my mind JUSTIFIED!
Humans are in plague so let’s weed out the bad ones and get society back on track, before we develop the realiance on BRAWNDO...
1
1
TeamGreen
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6/12/2019 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 7:13pm
I definitely do not in any way condone killing someone over a dirt bike, but if a guy hit my pops with a hammer, then came...
I definitely do not in any way condone killing someone over a dirt bike, but if a guy hit my pops with a hammer, then came at me with it, I would pick up the first weapon I could find (in this instance a loading ramp) and have zero issue with hitting the guy over the head with it. BUT, once I saw the damage it caused, I would never jump on the dude and start pretending I'm an MMA fighter practicing my ground and pound on an unconscious person. I think that part says something about this kid.

Do I feel sorry for the thief? Not even a little.

And to the people misinterpreting that every person that backs the kid thinks killing someone over a dirt bike is okay, I think you're missing the point that the thief is the one that brought a deadly weapon to this battle. The other dude just brought a ramp to unload the bike and I guarantee you when he threw it in the back of his truck, the last thing he envisioned was it being used to kill someone.
I can only imagine that the kids state of mind, after being attacked by the thief, is “not normal” & he's on “fight or flight” auto-pilot.
7
Sluggo77
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6/12/2019 7:16pm
jeffro503 wrote:
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years. Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your...
It really is weird how dude's have changed in my years.

Now day's , some dude say's " Bro....just cower and let the thief take your stuff.....it's only stuff ".

My generation DID NOT act this way! I'm not sure if it's the over abundance of fucking soy milk , or dude's just to weak to stand up for themseleve's......and it did NOT used to be like that. It was even worse in my day if you knew the fucker! I had a dude steal my BMX. I knew it was him , so I put the word out that my mom was going to pay $100.00 for the return of my bike. Next day , the thieving piece of shit comes riding down the street to my house and said he recovered my bike.....wants my mom to pay. I got this big smirk on my face and beat the living shit out of that asshole! Like worse than normal! Because when you're 14 years old , your BMX is everything , and it made it even worse I knew the piece of shit!
GrapeApe wrote:
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let...
Look, I know you react to everything emotionally and have absolutely no sense of logic. But did you read this thread before posting? 95% say let him die, only a couple say otherwise. Every single one of your posts is about what a badass you are and what pussies society has become, while making up fake stories to support your position. Stop watching cable news.
jeffro503 wrote:
God damn Grapeape's comment pissed me off last night , and I shouldn't have went off like that. Apologizes to the board. I don't even know...
God damn Grapeape's comment pissed me off last night , and I shouldn't have went off like that. Apologizes to the board.

I don't even know if it's a generation's type thing ( about just bending the knee and giving your stuff to whoever is robbing you ) compared to people who fight to protect their loved one's and personal property.
Why so insecure? Maybe hit him over the head with something so you can feel better?
5
jeffro503
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6/12/2019 7:20pm
Sluggo77 wrote:
Why so insecure? Maybe hit him over the head with something so you can feel better?
I'm actually quite confident. But thanks for asking.
1
6/12/2019 7:30pm
Jeffro has a 50/50 chance of losing his shit. Either A) he does, or B ) he does not. Those are the possibilities. 50/50.
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3
FerCzD
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6/12/2019 8:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 8:19pm
Funny how one guy calls another one out to not speak about how his generation grew up if he don't belong to the same one, and then proceeds to do the same thing making statement about a generation he is not part of. What is even funnier is the correlation he states about drinking soy milk and the direct impact on not standing for yourself.

From what I know the benefits of soy milk is to reduce the rBGH hormone that comes with the consumption of dairy products, which leads to increase of insulin and higher risk of diabetes.

Guess I'll start drinking "normal" milk again to be up to the standards of how a real man should behave 😂
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jeffro503
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6/12/2019 8:32pm
FerCzD wrote:
Funny how one guy calls another one out to not speak about how his generation grew up if he don't belong to the same one, and...
Funny how one guy calls another one out to not speak about how his generation grew up if he don't belong to the same one, and then proceeds to do the same thing making statement about a generation he is not part of. What is even funnier is the correlation he states about drinking soy milk and the direct impact on not standing for yourself.

From what I know the benefits of soy milk is to reduce the rBGH hormone that comes with the consumption of dairy products, which leads to increase of insulin and higher risk of diabetes.

Guess I'll start drinking "normal" milk again to be up to the standards of how a real man should behave 😂
Sounds like your estrogen level's are up again. Go ahead and keep defending your soy milk habit. Laughing
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1
MPJC
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6/12/2019 8:44pm
MPJC wrote:
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what...
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what you need, not a coin. If, say, we know that one person is trained (eg. military) and the other is not then we know that the military person has an advantage. He’s apt to be trained to deal with surprises and to be aware enough of his surroundings to not give you a chance to use whatever weapon is available. The problem in a street fight is you probably lack the background knowledge so you can’t realistically gauge your odds - especially if you’re not very familiar with your own ability. The fact that you can’t calculate them due to lack of knowledge doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And they may be stacked badly against you. The only difference with the Tyson\Bieber example is that it seems preposterous given our background knowledge. That illustrates the point about the relevance of background knowledge and prior probabilities.
It's math bro. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know you so therefore you have a 50% chance of belonging to the LGBTQ...
It's math bro. I don't know what to tell you.

I don't know you so therefore you have a 50% chance of belonging to the LGBTQ community if I ask. You either A) do, or B ) do not. Those are the possibilities.

You get in a fight. You either A) kick ass, or B ) get your ass kicked. Those are the possibilities. The odds don't change until a variable is encountered that changes the probability. In this case, the variable is a hammer and a loading ramp.

We're not talking about who has a better chance at winning based on training and skills and what a Vegas bookie would put for a spread. We're talking about the possible outcomes of an encounter before a person makes their decision to stand up to the would be robber. You either A) get robbed, or B ) don't get robbed. Those are the possibilities. 50/50.
I’m truly astonished. You really have no idea how utterly stupid you’re being. Nor do I have any reason to believe that your capable of developing an idea. Your posts perfectly embody the Dunning Kruger effect. I have actual expertise in rational choice theory and this conversation is painful for me.
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TeamGreen
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6/12/2019 8:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2019 8:51pm
MPJC wrote:
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what...
You can’t possibly believe that prior to an altercation each combatant has a 50% chance. That ignores background knowledge and prior probabilities. Bayes theorem is what you need, not a coin. If, say, we know that one person is trained (eg. military) and the other is not then we know that the military person has an advantage. He’s apt to be trained to deal with surprises and to be aware enough of his surroundings to not give you a chance to use whatever weapon is available. The problem in a street fight is you probably lack the background knowledge so you can’t realistically gauge your odds - especially if you’re not very familiar with your own ability. The fact that you can’t calculate them due to lack of knowledge doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And they may be stacked badly against you. The only difference with the Tyson\Bieber example is that it seems preposterous given our background knowledge. That illustrates the point about the relevance of background knowledge and prior probabilities.
It's math bro. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know you so therefore you have a 50% chance of belonging to the LGBTQ...
It's math bro. I don't know what to tell you.

I don't know you so therefore you have a 50% chance of belonging to the LGBTQ community if I ask. You either A) do, or B ) do not. Those are the possibilities.

You get in a fight. You either A) kick ass, or B ) get your ass kicked. Those are the possibilities. The odds don't change until a variable is encountered that changes the probability. In this case, the variable is a hammer and a loading ramp.

We're not talking about who has a better chance at winning based on training and skills and what a Vegas bookie would put for a spread. We're talking about the possible outcomes of an encounter before a person makes their decision to stand up to the would be robber. You either A) get robbed, or B ) don't get robbed. Those are the possibilities. 50/50.
MPJC wrote:
I’m truly astonished. You really have no idea how utterly stupid you’re being. Nor do I have any reason to believe that your capable of developing...
I’m truly astonished. You really have no idea how utterly stupid you’re being. Nor do I have any reason to believe that your capable of developing an idea. Your posts perfectly embody the Dunning Kruger effect. I have actual expertise in rational choice theory and this conversation is painful for me.
Ok.
I’ll bite.

What were the bike owner’s “self-interests” after the thief hit him and his dad with a hammer AND proceeded to steal his bike?
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MPJC
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6/12/2019 9:22pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Ok.
I’ll bite.

What were the bike owner’s “self-interests” after the thief hit him and his dad with a hammer AND proceeded to steal his bike?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "bite", but I can say a bit more about these sorts of situations if you wish. First, there's little reason to believe that self-interest - rational or otherwise - motivated the son in this case. It was likely something more like rage or some other emotion. So you need to separate actual motivations from ideal motivations, which are the motives on which one would act if they were worked out what is in their rational self-interest (and sometimes the actual and ideal motives will lead to the same decision, but that's little more than a happy accident when it happens). Your interests in a situation where your loved one has been assaulted and you're being robbed are the safety of your loved one, your own safety, not giving up your property, and not going to jail for whatever it is that you do. I suppose there could be some secondary but less rational interests such as pride, but I think it would be best to disregard those. You will want to get some sense of the probable outcomes of each possible course of action. If the robber is already leaving with your property, then if you do nothing the probability of losing your property but maintaining your safety and freedom will be approaching 100%. If his back is turned and you have a clear shot with a weapon the probability of retaining your property is quite high, but the probability of forfeiting your freedom (which, presumably is much more valuable than your property) also increases (by how much depends on the variables of the situation and the jurisdiction). If what you have is a situation where you will engage in a fight, then all bets are off. It may be rational to assume a 50% chance if the only knowledge you have is that the other guy looks about your size, but you may lack other crucial knowledge - both about yourself and him. So, the actual probability and the probability that it is rational to assume in a state of relative ignorance may be radically divergent. This is why it is a massive risk. Given the stakes (say, a 2003 YZ250F), the risk hardly seems worth it. That would, of course, change if the assailant poses a continued risk. Defending yourself (and others) is the priority - it is the overriding interest.

The possible variables that can change which course of action is rational are nearly endless. Your goal should be to maximize the chances of positive outcomes and minimize the chances of negative outcomes. If you want to play with various scenarios you can plug the probabilities into Bayes' theorem and actually calculate the probabilities of various outcomes given whatever variables you like. This idea that if there are 2 possible outcomes each is equally probable is one of the most unbelievably silly things I've ever heard.
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jemcee
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6/12/2019 9:23pm
A lot of people asking 'what would you do if you saw your dad attacked with a hammer' I think I might be in the minority but I'd be more concerned about making sure he was ok than stopping someone take my shitty bike or repeatedly punching the bloke in the face while he's bleeding out on the ground.. "Family above all else" apparently not

This video is shocking.. well it should be shocking, but it's not.. All I know is this world is becoming an increasing cunt of a place to be
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snowy816
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6/12/2019 9:34pm
jemcee wrote:
A lot of people asking 'what would you do if you saw your dad attacked with a hammer' I think I might be in the minority...
A lot of people asking 'what would you do if you saw your dad attacked with a hammer' I think I might be in the minority but I'd be more concerned about making sure he was ok than stopping someone take my shitty bike or repeatedly punching the bloke in the face while he's bleeding out on the ground.. "Family above all else" apparently not

This video is shocking.. well it should be shocking, but it's not.. All I know is this world is becoming an increasing cunt of a place to be
The unfortunate thing is - no one knows how they would react when this happened unless you were in that situation. Its called Adrenaline and once that fear and adrenaline gets going indicates what each individual would do! And the same situation on a different day the same person could react different.

Like in Oil Rigs we train for blowouts, this doesn't mean you will react the way you were trained in a "REAL LIFE" situation. I have seen guys run for the hills and seen guys stand right beside their driller. Also close friend of my father ran back into the fire while others ran for the hills...

Again you can never say what you would do unless you were there.

For all we know most would piss their pants and cry. OR react exactly like that young kid out of fear and adrenaline. EG: Maybe they had to sell the bike because the bank was going to foreclose on dads house if payments wasn't met? No one knows.

I don't condone death, but doing what that kid did I had no issue with.
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