Dirt Cheap 2018 YZ450

Timo_2824
Posts
553
Joined
12/19/2016
Location
Wichita, KS US
11/8/2018 5:12am
I got my 2019 YZ450FX OTD at $9058.00 from Stillwater Oklahoma. I'm out of state so there wasn't any sales tax, but the msrp was $9499, so I was happy.
11/8/2018 5:51am
All this talk about ordering online and shipping to your door, does anyone remember motorcylebroker.com? I never ordered through them as I always seemed to be able to get a slightly better deal locally but I always considered it when I was in the market for a new scoot.
TriRacer27
Posts
5449
Joined
2/7/2009
Location
Dallas, TX US
Fantasy
47th
11/8/2018 6:16am
My local dealer wanted to charge $400 in assembly fees......for an XR50.

Yeah.


They advertise them for $1500, but the OTD price is nearly double. On a percentage basis, that's outrageous. WTF is there to even put together on an XR50?

I can't wait for the day when I can order a bike online.
11/8/2018 8:25am
A lot of the shops around here had a "set up fee" that is insane to make up the difference for bikes that are on sale.

The Shop

peelout
Posts
17870
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
11/8/2018 8:29am
meh

i almost bought a KTM dealership that wasn't willing to talke to me after 4 minutes of staring at a new 350cc machines
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
11/8/2018 8:32am
It blows my mind seeing shops do this. Every time I go pick up a new bike from Motosport Hillsboro.....they sell the bike for exactly what's listed , plus $140.00 for Doc fee's. Most shop's around here are honest like that. And last week when I picked up an 18' TC 250.....their price was $6999.00. they then charged me $99.00 for doc fee's. Otd was $7098.00. both those shops have me as a customer for life. No bullshit needed from those shop's.
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
11/8/2018 8:46am
Hudd_421 wrote:
Power doesn't charge for all that Jeff Wink
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the TC instead , which they don't sell. But other than that , yeah Power is a great shop indeed.

How you been doing anyway's Ryan? Been riding?
Hudd_421
Posts
645
Joined
2/17/2015
Location
TX US
11/8/2018 9:10am
Hudd_421 wrote:
Power doesn't charge for all that Jeff Wink
jeffro503 wrote:
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the...
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the TC instead , which they don't sell. But other than that , yeah Power is a great shop indeed.

How you been doing anyway's Ryan? Been riding?
How bad ass is the Husky? Jealous of that one!

Good man, still in Texas riding every weekend! Bought me a Yamaha a month ago and loving it.

You been riding? I see shougal is open this weekend! My dad is running Motosport now, so if you see the crew around ask for Scott. He needs a riding buddy!
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
11/8/2018 9:24am
Hudd_421 wrote:
Power doesn't charge for all that Jeff Wink
jeffro503 wrote:
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the...
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the TC instead , which they don't sell. But other than that , yeah Power is a great shop indeed.

How you been doing anyway's Ryan? Been riding?
Hudd_421 wrote:
How bad ass is the Husky? Jealous of that one! Good man, still in Texas riding every weekend! Bought me a Yamaha a month ago and...
How bad ass is the Husky? Jealous of that one!

Good man, still in Texas riding every weekend! Bought me a Yamaha a month ago and loving it.

You been riding? I see shougal is open this weekend! My dad is running Motosport now, so if you see the crew around ask for Scott. He needs a riding buddy!
I love the Husky man! I just got it , so I haven't been able to ride it yet , but hope to this weekend and start working on getting familiar with it. I dig the 125 so much , that I thought I needed to pair it up with a matching 250. This next summer will be a blast.

And new 19' YZ250? I was thinking maybe you moved back up this way? And I did not know about Washougal this weekend , but if it's a practice day I may go there. Was thinking Albany , so I can get the 250 broke in on something a little easier. Get in touch with me if you make it up here this next spring / summer so we can go do some roostin'!
Hudd_421
Posts
645
Joined
2/17/2015
Location
TX US
11/8/2018 9:28am
jeffro503 wrote:
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the...
I know Ryan....Power is an awesome shop as well! I talked to Ben a few weeks ago about the Kawi 450. I decided to get the TC instead , which they don't sell. But other than that , yeah Power is a great shop indeed.

How you been doing anyway's Ryan? Been riding?
Hudd_421 wrote:
How bad ass is the Husky? Jealous of that one! Good man, still in Texas riding every weekend! Bought me a Yamaha a month ago and...
How bad ass is the Husky? Jealous of that one!

Good man, still in Texas riding every weekend! Bought me a Yamaha a month ago and loving it.

You been riding? I see shougal is open this weekend! My dad is running Motosport now, so if you see the crew around ask for Scott. He needs a riding buddy!
jeffro503 wrote:
I love the Husky man! I just got it , so I haven't been able to ride it yet , but hope to this weekend and...
I love the Husky man! I just got it , so I haven't been able to ride it yet , but hope to this weekend and start working on getting familiar with it. I dig the 125 so much , that I thought I needed to pair it up with a matching 250. This next summer will be a blast.

And new 19' YZ250? I was thinking maybe you moved back up this way? And I did not know about Washougal this weekend , but if it's a practice day I may go there. Was thinking Albany , so I can get the 250 broke in on something a little easier. Get in touch with me if you make it up here this next spring / summer so we can go do some roostin'!
2 bikes is the way to go! Na, got a 19 450. Need a 4stroke for racing! I still have my YZ250 two stroke, but a Pivot Works crank did me dirty, so that's getting a brand new motor basically.

Stayin for Texas for a while. Can't beet the riding. I'm hoping to make it up and hopefully race the national this year.
I'll definitely give you a shout!
drt410
Posts
2075
Joined
3/18/2017
Location
Boston, MA US
11/8/2018 5:44pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2018 5:45pm
Just buy lightly used and save 4 grand. Then use that 4k on upgrades, good helmet. End up with a better bike in the end.
1
11/9/2018 7:50am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2018 7:52am
49weasel wrote:
That there folks is the reason we’ll being ordering our bikes off a website in 10 years or so. Almost no reason we can’t now. 3/4...
That there folks is the reason we’ll being ordering our bikes off a website in 10 years or so. Almost no reason we can’t now. 3/4 of the people that work in dealerships now are damn near retarded. Dealership don’t pay worth a shit anymore so all the decent people moved to different industries.
Its not good when the customer knows more about the product than the salesman. But this seems to be the norm.
This is why pricing on the floor
Is how you see it

Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for 33 dollars

Then you select your bike and its 85....

In the internet world advertised price gets you into their door - you still go to a car dealer in almost all car buying experiences these days.

The reason the dealers are dying is consumers are assholes and the industry is slowly dying but business owners who do this are passionate still and clinging to that passion.

A fair profit on a 7500 dollar investmet in a bike, plus a multimillion dollar dealership - should be more than 1000 bucks imho. Most smart money people on this forum can take 7500 and turn that into 8500

back in the good days - before the internet - a dealer could discount the bike to cost and sell you parts all year - slowly make some money
Now the consumer buys the cheapest bike he can find then goes online and buys all his parts (not at a great deal frankly) and screws the dealer

1
11/9/2018 9:00am
Thats just bullshit, over here in OZ we look at the product, see the real price, then you may be able to haggle a couple of hundred dollars if you're lucky.

You can visit a couple of dealers, window shop, see the real prices,
Simple, painless and no one walks away feeling fucked over.
1
Tarz483
Posts
6352
Joined
2/25/2009
Location
Mankato, MN US
Fantasy
583rd
11/9/2018 5:19pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2018 10:20am
This would put me off so Bad I wouldnt Buy any thing there ever out of spite
1
usafwx
Posts
1377
Joined
7/19/2012
Location
Trussville, AL US
11/9/2018 5:27pm
This is why pricing on the floor Is how you see it Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for...
This is why pricing on the floor
Is how you see it

Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for 33 dollars

Then you select your bike and its 85....

In the internet world advertised price gets you into their door - you still go to a car dealer in almost all car buying experiences these days.

The reason the dealers are dying is consumers are assholes and the industry is slowly dying but business owners who do this are passionate still and clinging to that passion.

A fair profit on a 7500 dollar investmet in a bike, plus a multimillion dollar dealership - should be more than 1000 bucks imho. Most smart money people on this forum can take 7500 and turn that into 8500

back in the good days - before the internet - a dealer could discount the bike to cost and sell you parts all year - slowly make some money
Now the consumer buys the cheapest bike he can find then goes online and buys all his parts (not at a great deal frankly) and screws the dealer

"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging stupid fees maybe why some customers are assholes to begin with. Hell, most of the time I know more about the bike then the guy trying to sell it to me.
2
11/9/2018 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2018 6:05pm
This is why pricing on the floor Is how you see it Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for...
This is why pricing on the floor
Is how you see it

Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for 33 dollars

Then you select your bike and its 85....

In the internet world advertised price gets you into their door - you still go to a car dealer in almost all car buying experiences these days.

The reason the dealers are dying is consumers are assholes and the industry is slowly dying but business owners who do this are passionate still and clinging to that passion.

A fair profit on a 7500 dollar investmet in a bike, plus a multimillion dollar dealership - should be more than 1000 bucks imho. Most smart money people on this forum can take 7500 and turn that into 8500

back in the good days - before the internet - a dealer could discount the bike to cost and sell you parts all year - slowly make some money
Now the consumer buys the cheapest bike he can find then goes online and buys all his parts (not at a great deal frankly) and screws the dealer

usafwx wrote:
"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging...
"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging stupid fees maybe why some customers are assholes to begin with. Hell, most of the time I know more about the bike then the guy trying to sell it to me.
I do this industry as a business - all day every day

Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell you a 450 at rmsrp plus assembly, plus freight? How much does that dealer make?

Local power dealer in my area wont touch dirtbikes outside of their manufacturer required minimums. Their sales crew describe motocrosses as “hands out palms up saying “gimme””
The sales guy will take 1 hour walk through on a bike or bikes, 20 minutes of going over numbers, then 10 phone calls with the customer leveraging every other deal he has found trying to drop the price down to nothing, 1 hour processing the guys credit app
Then a 1 hour closing process where the customer tries every last minute tactic to drop price, all to make less than 50 bucks commission on zero base hourly if he sold it full pop retail.

He can sell 1 side by side in the same time, 5k of accessories he gets a cut of, and make 5-10 times the money depending on his month


Number 2 - the dealers are a response to the consumer. Thats capitalism for you, its not the other way around.

Number 3, said asshole customer will tell all his buddies he got that 2018 yz450 for 5995. He will neglect to tell them he paid fees and shipping and whatever else

Then his buddies will be the biggest assholes to their next buying experience because they “know” that the “dealers cost” is 5995 when the reality is its not


Dirtbike margins are 10-15 percent off msrp
the dealer pays a shipping company to deliver these bikes - go ask fed ex for a free shipment!
The dealer pays a kid 15 bucks an hour to put it together from the crate, and the dealer usually has a fork lift, dumpster/trash service to dispose of the crates/boxes and finally they have a showroom to put the bike in, phone lines, cleaning staff, lease or property taxes etc

All for 10-15 percent at retail!

As I said - in the good ole days you gave the bike away (they still do) then earned it back in parts and then a little extra

The online game ruined the parts business for dealers - and the consumer never forgot the deals they used to get. Now they demans the deal, and take their parts business online

Even worse they bitch when a local dealer HAS the part they need in stock and wants retail for it...

Im a consumer too. Im guilty of all of the above consumer habbits. Its just not the dealers fault he is trying to lure sales and make a profit while doing it
2
2
usafwx
Posts
1377
Joined
7/19/2012
Location
Trussville, AL US
11/9/2018 6:17pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2018 6:20pm
I do this industry as a business - all day every day Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell...
I do this industry as a business - all day every day

Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell you a 450 at rmsrp plus assembly, plus freight? How much does that dealer make?

Local power dealer in my area wont touch dirtbikes outside of their manufacturer required minimums. Their sales crew describe motocrosses as “hands out palms up saying “gimme””
The sales guy will take 1 hour walk through on a bike or bikes, 20 minutes of going over numbers, then 10 phone calls with the customer leveraging every other deal he has found trying to drop the price down to nothing, 1 hour processing the guys credit app
Then a 1 hour closing process where the customer tries every last minute tactic to drop price, all to make less than 50 bucks commission on zero base hourly if he sold it full pop retail.

He can sell 1 side by side in the same time, 5k of accessories he gets a cut of, and make 5-10 times the money depending on his month


Number 2 - the dealers are a response to the consumer. Thats capitalism for you, its not the other way around.

Number 3, said asshole customer will tell all his buddies he got that 2018 yz450 for 5995. He will neglect to tell them he paid fees and shipping and whatever else

Then his buddies will be the biggest assholes to their next buying experience because they “know” that the “dealers cost” is 5995 when the reality is its not


Dirtbike margins are 10-15 percent off msrp
the dealer pays a shipping company to deliver these bikes - go ask fed ex for a free shipment!
The dealer pays a kid 15 bucks an hour to put it together from the crate, and the dealer usually has a fork lift, dumpster/trash service to dispose of the crates/boxes and finally they have a showroom to put the bike in, phone lines, cleaning staff, lease or property taxes etc

All for 10-15 percent at retail!

As I said - in the good ole days you gave the bike away (they still do) then earned it back in parts and then a little extra

The online game ruined the parts business for dealers - and the consumer never forgot the deals they used to get. Now they demans the deal, and take their parts business online

Even worse they bitch when a local dealer HAS the part they need in stock and wants retail for it...

Im a consumer too. Im guilty of all of the above consumer habbits. Its just not the dealers fault he is trying to lure sales and make a profit while doing it
That's your prespective. It's gonna vary.

For instance your number 1 perspective. Every bike I have bought has been a simple email/phone/text exchange and maybe an hour tops in the dealer doing paperwork. Sure not every customer is like this but not everyone is as you listed above. And not sure where that MX stereotype comes from but guess that's your perspective.

I get it Side by Sides are what's keeping lights on. Walk into any dealer and look at the inventory and one would easily gather as much.

Your number 3 and 4 again are your experience / perspective. From mine and my dealer, such is not the case, maybe wherever you're at, but most guys know how much these bikes cost and how much fees/title/tags/etc. cost., my Yamaha dealer has shown me invoice on a few of the bikes I bought from him. Most people with common sense who hear their buddy at the track say they bought a bike at a ridiculous price , can easily smell the B.S and won't expect that price. I always laugh inside when I hear guys saying what you quoted above.

I get what you're saying and can see your perspective but it certainly is not the reason why the industry is dying along with dealers. Just like retail stores, there needs to be a way to adjust to a changing world. I know for one my dealer here will price match RMATVMC or BTOSports if I ask, and though it wont come in 2 days like the online places I will still order it from the dealer because of a relationship built on them not screwing me over on a price/treating me fairly.

What pisses most of us off here and turns us into assholes is when a dealer marks a bike down like said in this thread, then quotes fees that are in excess of $2000 over MSRP, that's just trying to screw customers over. And so the cycle continues. I've bought a bike almost every year and understand the need for give and take on both sides and I think most here would agree, but far to often especially here in this market (AZ) and dealers like Ridenow they are not interested in building customer relationships but instead trying to overcharge and maximize profit.


2
yak651
Posts
6683
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
214th
11/9/2018 6:38pm
49weasel wrote:
That there folks is the reason we’ll being ordering our bikes off a website in 10 years or so. Almost no reason we can’t now. 3/4...
That there folks is the reason we’ll being ordering our bikes off a website in 10 years or so. Almost no reason we can’t now. 3/4 of the people that work in dealerships now are damn near retarded. Dealership don’t pay worth a shit anymore so all the decent people moved to different industries.
byke wrote:
What's funny is that's kind of how it was 25-30 years ago, minus the internet part. That's why TUF Racing was so badass; make phone call...
What's funny is that's kind of how it was 25-30 years ago, minus the internet part. That's why TUF Racing was so badass; make phone call and pick up a crate from your local freight company. No bs and no rapey nonsense.
Tuff racing, aren't all the owners salespeople in prison now that worked there?
11/9/2018 6:39pm
This is why pricing on the floor Is how you see it Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for...
This is why pricing on the floor
Is how you see it

Advertised internet pricing is why you search dunlop mx33 and it comes up for 33 dollars

Then you select your bike and its 85....

In the internet world advertised price gets you into their door - you still go to a car dealer in almost all car buying experiences these days.

The reason the dealers are dying is consumers are assholes and the industry is slowly dying but business owners who do this are passionate still and clinging to that passion.

A fair profit on a 7500 dollar investmet in a bike, plus a multimillion dollar dealership - should be more than 1000 bucks imho. Most smart money people on this forum can take 7500 and turn that into 8500

back in the good days - before the internet - a dealer could discount the bike to cost and sell you parts all year - slowly make some money
Now the consumer buys the cheapest bike he can find then goes online and buys all his parts (not at a great deal frankly) and screws the dealer

usafwx wrote:
"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging...
"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging stupid fees maybe why some customers are assholes to begin with. Hell, most of the time I know more about the bike then the guy trying to sell it to me.
I do this industry as a business - all day every day Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell...
I do this industry as a business - all day every day

Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell you a 450 at rmsrp plus assembly, plus freight? How much does that dealer make?

Local power dealer in my area wont touch dirtbikes outside of their manufacturer required minimums. Their sales crew describe motocrosses as “hands out palms up saying “gimme””
The sales guy will take 1 hour walk through on a bike or bikes, 20 minutes of going over numbers, then 10 phone calls with the customer leveraging every other deal he has found trying to drop the price down to nothing, 1 hour processing the guys credit app
Then a 1 hour closing process where the customer tries every last minute tactic to drop price, all to make less than 50 bucks commission on zero base hourly if he sold it full pop retail.

He can sell 1 side by side in the same time, 5k of accessories he gets a cut of, and make 5-10 times the money depending on his month


Number 2 - the dealers are a response to the consumer. Thats capitalism for you, its not the other way around.

Number 3, said asshole customer will tell all his buddies he got that 2018 yz450 for 5995. He will neglect to tell them he paid fees and shipping and whatever else

Then his buddies will be the biggest assholes to their next buying experience because they “know” that the “dealers cost” is 5995 when the reality is its not


Dirtbike margins are 10-15 percent off msrp
the dealer pays a shipping company to deliver these bikes - go ask fed ex for a free shipment!
The dealer pays a kid 15 bucks an hour to put it together from the crate, and the dealer usually has a fork lift, dumpster/trash service to dispose of the crates/boxes and finally they have a showroom to put the bike in, phone lines, cleaning staff, lease or property taxes etc

All for 10-15 percent at retail!

As I said - in the good ole days you gave the bike away (they still do) then earned it back in parts and then a little extra

The online game ruined the parts business for dealers - and the consumer never forgot the deals they used to get. Now they demans the deal, and take their parts business online

Even worse they bitch when a local dealer HAS the part they need in stock and wants retail for it...

Im a consumer too. Im guilty of all of the above consumer habbits. Its just not the dealers fault he is trying to lure sales and make a profit while doing it
Hi Derek, that's all awesome information. Remind me exactly, why is it we as consumers need dealerships and not the other way around?

They don't care if our bikes blow up if they've got more than an hour on them, they can't give us competitive prices on parts any more, and trying to get an out the door price has become like getting a colonoscopy, a real massive pain in the ass.

So again I ask, why is it WE need THEM and not the other way around?
2
11/9/2018 6:42pm
This dealer in question isnt great

But I sell bew bikes now too - and get it every day

The only reason I can stick around IS customers like you. A fair price - usually below msrp
Shipping

And tax if applicable.

But on the back end - its more work than that! Too much honestly - dirtbikes are just bad business all around
1
11/9/2018 6:49pm
This dealer in question isnt great But I sell bew bikes now too - and get it every day The only reason I can stick around...
This dealer in question isnt great

But I sell bew bikes now too - and get it every day

The only reason I can stick around IS customers like you. A fair price - usually below msrp
Shipping

And tax if applicable.

But on the back end - its more work than that! Too much honestly - dirtbikes are just bad business all around
Derek, I don't doubt that people will probably never understand the complexities in running a dealership. I wish more dealers had your attitude in mind when dealing with us as consumers and what it takes to get a deal done. Trying to get a new bike for the first time has nearly completely turned me off from the concept in the future.
1
11/9/2018 8:11pm
usafwx wrote:
"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging...
"asshole customers" are not the reason dealers are dying, sure there are some, but just like this thread, dealers doing bait and switch tactics or charging stupid fees maybe why some customers are assholes to begin with. Hell, most of the time I know more about the bike then the guy trying to sell it to me.
I do this industry as a business - all day every day Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell...
I do this industry as a business - all day every day

Number 1 - how much money does that no nothing salesman make to sell you a 450 at rmsrp plus assembly, plus freight? How much does that dealer make?

Local power dealer in my area wont touch dirtbikes outside of their manufacturer required minimums. Their sales crew describe motocrosses as “hands out palms up saying “gimme””
The sales guy will take 1 hour walk through on a bike or bikes, 20 minutes of going over numbers, then 10 phone calls with the customer leveraging every other deal he has found trying to drop the price down to nothing, 1 hour processing the guys credit app
Then a 1 hour closing process where the customer tries every last minute tactic to drop price, all to make less than 50 bucks commission on zero base hourly if he sold it full pop retail.

He can sell 1 side by side in the same time, 5k of accessories he gets a cut of, and make 5-10 times the money depending on his month


Number 2 - the dealers are a response to the consumer. Thats capitalism for you, its not the other way around.

Number 3, said asshole customer will tell all his buddies he got that 2018 yz450 for 5995. He will neglect to tell them he paid fees and shipping and whatever else

Then his buddies will be the biggest assholes to their next buying experience because they “know” that the “dealers cost” is 5995 when the reality is its not


Dirtbike margins are 10-15 percent off msrp
the dealer pays a shipping company to deliver these bikes - go ask fed ex for a free shipment!
The dealer pays a kid 15 bucks an hour to put it together from the crate, and the dealer usually has a fork lift, dumpster/trash service to dispose of the crates/boxes and finally they have a showroom to put the bike in, phone lines, cleaning staff, lease or property taxes etc

All for 10-15 percent at retail!

As I said - in the good ole days you gave the bike away (they still do) then earned it back in parts and then a little extra

The online game ruined the parts business for dealers - and the consumer never forgot the deals they used to get. Now they demans the deal, and take their parts business online

Even worse they bitch when a local dealer HAS the part they need in stock and wants retail for it...

Im a consumer too. Im guilty of all of the above consumer habbits. Its just not the dealers fault he is trying to lure sales and make a profit while doing it
Hi Derek, that's all awesome information. Remind me exactly, why is it we as consumers need dealerships and not the other way around? They don't care...
Hi Derek, that's all awesome information. Remind me exactly, why is it we as consumers need dealerships and not the other way around?

They don't care if our bikes blow up if they've got more than an hour on them, they can't give us competitive prices on parts any more, and trying to get an out the door price has become like getting a colonoscopy, a real massive pain in the ass.

So again I ask, why is it WE need THEM and not the other way around?
I think your points were poorly made - so ill adress it in 2 ways.

Your dealer ISNT the manufacturer. If a product breaks they have no reason to be responsable (minus a loose handlebar). Take up your beef with the oem - your dealer is an intermediate/advocate for you. You dont buy a “motosport 450f”
You buy a honda, or ktm, or kawasaki etc
You placed faith in that name not the dealers name

The dealer has to pay the technician they hire - he isnt free. So unless the OEM pays that bill and oems are like insurance companies - the dealer should have nothing to do with that side of your arguemen. When your asking for a free fix - the dealer is thinking why????
No dealer forces you to buy the brand you picked...


why do YOU need the dealer?
Do you want a motorcycle????

If so where do you plan to get it?
From the oem???? Why should they sell direct to you?
How do you plan to import the bikes since no current mxer is usa made?

You plan to import and ship just yours?
What about parts? Plan to order as needed?
Why should the oem do business this way?

They have a chain of command and network to best serve the consumer demand. To do so at the lowest possible price, an importer (all the oems have a usa division that serves the importer role) buys in bulk and orders massive parts in bulk to save shipping cost. They also assume huge financial risk.


The oem can trust this ONE account to pay their bill. Over time this trusting relationship is important. The importer has a closer finger on national demand and purchases accordingly far in advance helping the oem to know how many bikes and parts to produce

The importer then sells in minor chunks of bulk to dealers. The dealer can be trusted to pay their bill...and the dealer had their finger on a local pulse - with how
Many bikes are needed. It gets more complicated when you throw in coorporate pushing bikes to dealers but thats the idea.

When problems do arrise - which on a national scale happens every day - in multitude - the importer isnt flooded with too many calls to handle. Instead the network of dealers can filter that information up the chain.

The reality is the oems often have a few more layers than said

Big oem
National big importer
Regional outlet to dealers
Dealers

A lot like the drug business


Drug dealers exist because of consumer demand. Sure the dealer wouldnt exist without the junkie - but the junkie needs the dealer
And el chappo doesnt want to deal with every junkie...so he has a network



4
1
usafwx
Posts
1377
Joined
7/19/2012
Location
Trussville, AL US
11/9/2018 8:16pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2018 8:18pm
I think your points were poorly made - so ill adress it in 2 ways. Your dealer ISNT the manufacturer. If a product breaks they have...
I think your points were poorly made - so ill adress it in 2 ways.

Your dealer ISNT the manufacturer. If a product breaks they have no reason to be responsable (minus a loose handlebar). Take up your beef with the oem - your dealer is an intermediate/advocate for you. You dont buy a “motosport 450f”
You buy a honda, or ktm, or kawasaki etc
You placed faith in that name not the dealers name

The dealer has to pay the technician they hire - he isnt free. So unless the OEM pays that bill and oems are like insurance companies - the dealer should have nothing to do with that side of your arguemen. When your asking for a free fix - the dealer is thinking why????
No dealer forces you to buy the brand you picked...


why do YOU need the dealer?
Do you want a motorcycle????

If so where do you plan to get it?
From the oem???? Why should they sell direct to you?
How do you plan to import the bikes since no current mxer is usa made?

You plan to import and ship just yours?
What about parts? Plan to order as needed?
Why should the oem do business this way?

They have a chain of command and network to best serve the consumer demand. To do so at the lowest possible price, an importer (all the oems have a usa division that serves the importer role) buys in bulk and orders massive parts in bulk to save shipping cost. They also assume huge financial risk.


The oem can trust this ONE account to pay their bill. Over time this trusting relationship is important. The importer has a closer finger on national demand and purchases accordingly far in advance helping the oem to know how many bikes and parts to produce

The importer then sells in minor chunks of bulk to dealers. The dealer can be trusted to pay their bill...and the dealer had their finger on a local pulse - with how
Many bikes are needed. It gets more complicated when you throw in coorporate pushing bikes to dealers but thats the idea.

When problems do arrise - which on a national scale happens every day - in multitude - the importer isnt flooded with too many calls to handle. Instead the network of dealers can filter that information up the chain.

The reality is the oems often have a few more layers than said

Big oem
National big importer
Regional outlet to dealers
Dealers

A lot like the drug business


Drug dealers exist because of consumer demand. Sure the dealer wouldnt exist without the junkie - but the junkie needs the dealer
And el chappo doesnt want to deal with every junkie...so he has a network




A lot like the drug business

Drug dealers exist because of consumer demand. Sure the dealer wouldnt exist without the junkie - but the junkie needs the dealer
And el chappo doesnt want to deal with every junkie...so he has a network


Love this. Lol.
1
Helda
Posts
690
Joined
9/17/2018
Location
AU
11/9/2018 8:38pm
Thats just bullshit, over here in OZ we look at the product, see the real price, then you may be able to haggle a couple of...
Thats just bullshit, over here in OZ we look at the product, see the real price, then you may be able to haggle a couple of hundred dollars if you're lucky.

You can visit a couple of dealers, window shop, see the real prices,
Simple, painless and no one walks away feeling fucked over.
Yep I'll convert it because this us a US site but I brought a YZ450f 2018 for $7663us OTD they should be able to do it a shit load cheaper then that over there!!
2
Freakazoid
Posts
178
Joined
2/7/2017
Location
Tahoe, CA US
11/9/2018 9:19pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2018 9:22pm
$7500 OTD is about the cheapest I found locally in NorCal for 2017 yz450f, $8000 OTD for 2018. I am not the best negotiator though.. I have been debating both versions the past few weeks, but will probably wait another six months, or just get another YZ250 smoker. I don't want to spend more than $6-7000 OTD, and am holding firm until I find a better deal. Next year I bet there will still be some leftover 450s I can get around that price.

I recently bought a 2018 HusqV FC350 new for $8200 OTD. Love the bike, but still craving a YZ. Will probably sell the Husky as soon as I hit 100hr. Hopefully will get $5500 at that point.

A significant portion of the mountain bike manufacturers have moved to direct sales, and it seems to be paying off for them. There is an Intense Cycles ad right on this page lol. They lowered the prices, and they are increasing sales. The law of economic demand. I hope that is the future of the MX market, simply because I am a consumer (don't understand the costs to run a dealership) and want the best deal possible. If I could buy a 2020 KX 450f for $6000, plus $400 shipping, direct from Kawi, I would in a heart beat. I would smash the shit out of my PayPal credit account for that stuff. Dear God. I would buy 2x the bikes if they were 1/3 less. It pays off for me, a consistent new-buying consumer, as well as the major manufacturers because they sell more bikes. Win-win, and I feel less apart of an Oligopoly. Except dealers go for a small loss and some go out of business. But the mountain bike industry is dealing with it, and the good dealerships are still in business. KTM/HUSKY, and from Japan Honda and Suzuki can stay dealer. Yami and Kawi should go direct to consumer.. I wish. Maybe 20 years from now that will be a reality.

That being said. If a dealership doesn't stand behind it's sales, there is no reason for the market not to go that direction. Shipping is getting a lot easier and more efficient for the big companies nowadays (not accounting for any governmental taxation). If a dealership helps out, then it will keep this current market alive and well. IMO.
JG463
Posts
883
Joined
6/21/2011
Location
Stillwater, OK US
11/9/2018 10:22pm
Markus422 wrote:
Agreed. If dealerships were knowledgeable cool local businesses that promoted motorcycle/dirt bike culture and actually knew more about the bikes they're selling than I do, it'd...
Agreed. If dealerships were knowledgeable cool local businesses that promoted motorcycle/dirt bike culture and actually knew more about the bikes they're selling than I do, it'd be different. Since that's not happening, might as well cut out the useless middleman
7GP wrote:
Don’t hold the fact that you know more about the bike than the salesman against them. The customer having more knowledge is common in a lot...
Don’t hold the fact that you know more about the bike than the salesman against them. The customer having more knowledge is common in a lot of industries. Among other things, the salesman and dealership are there to build a relationship with you, help you through the purchase process and be there for post purchase support.
7GP: Anytime you are looking for a job feel free to email me at Jon.garrett463@gmail.com.
Knailed it right here on anything regarding a properly ran dealership or any business. Kudos to you.
1
11/23/2018 10:36pm
I just bought a new 19 yz 450 and 250 today. You can shop around 5 dealers. Get 5 different prices, and when you sign on the dotted line, the price is always a little different. I dont want a lot of hassle. I want a little off retail, I paid no set up or shipping fees, but paid $249 a bike for doc fees and $25 title fee plus tax. The dealer still had 18 and even 17 YZ 450s there so to sell them I would think they would need more than the $750 Yamaha rebate to get it done.
mister2dt
Posts
285
Joined
8/20/2018
Location
Canton, MS US
11/24/2018 6:12am
Pirate421 wrote:
I recently read an article in a bicycle magazine that a lot of pretty high end mountain bike brands are going direct to consumer. The mag...
I recently read an article in a bicycle magazine that a lot of pretty high end mountain bike brands are going direct to consumer. The mag tested a bike that was $7000 and then when the brand went direct to consumer, the price of the same bike dropped to $5000 overnight. There are most likely larger margins in bicycles than dirtbikes, but if the can sell a bicycle online that’s delivered to your door why can’t they sell dirtbike? They both take relatively the same amount of set up and I would assume have similar liability. Yes the bike shops don’t really like it but as the article states, once these brands started to offer direct to consumer the “cat was out of the bag” and people see how much extra they are paying the old way.
I owned a bike shop for a few years. The margins are ridiculous. Mtn bikes are not as bad as road bikes though. Mtn bikes are on average, 40-55% mark up. Road bikes are 40-65% mark up. As a gift for one of my life long friends, his wife had me build him his first triathalon bike. Fuji signature frame, too of the line everything. Final build cost was just a touch over $23k. My cost in the build was just a touch over $12k.
mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
11/24/2018 6:49am
Pirate421 wrote:
I recently read an article in a bicycle magazine that a lot of pretty high end mountain bike brands are going direct to consumer. The mag...
I recently read an article in a bicycle magazine that a lot of pretty high end mountain bike brands are going direct to consumer. The mag tested a bike that was $7000 and then when the brand went direct to consumer, the price of the same bike dropped to $5000 overnight. There are most likely larger margins in bicycles than dirtbikes, but if the can sell a bicycle online that’s delivered to your door why can’t they sell dirtbike? They both take relatively the same amount of set up and I would assume have similar liability. Yes the bike shops don’t really like it but as the article states, once these brands started to offer direct to consumer the “cat was out of the bag” and people see how much extra they are paying the old way.
mister2dt wrote:
I owned a bike shop for a few years. The margins are ridiculous. Mtn bikes are not as bad as road bikes though. Mtn bikes are...
I owned a bike shop for a few years. The margins are ridiculous. Mtn bikes are not as bad as road bikes though. Mtn bikes are on average, 40-55% mark up. Road bikes are 40-65% mark up. As a gift for one of my life long friends, his wife had me build him his first triathalon bike. Fuji signature frame, too of the line everything. Final build cost was just a touch over $23k. My cost in the build was just a touch over $12k.
And yet people still complain on new mx bike prices.
1

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