Difference between fuels at mxon

jridout12
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jridout12
Edited Date/Time 10/2/2022 8:19pm
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams had to run for this race. I heard in some post race interviews that Max Ansties bike had problems with the European spec stuff. I was also at the race and I noticed you didn’t smell the super strong race gas smell like you typically do at an American race
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BobPA
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BobPA 9/26/2022 5:11pm
9/26/2022 5:11pm
jridout12 wrote:
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams...
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams had to run for this race. I heard in some post race interviews that Max Ansties bike had problems with the European spec stuff. I was also at the race and I noticed you didn’t smell the super strong race gas smell like you typically do at an American race
We noticed the same thing, and the bikes were very quiet compared to the Nationals I attended.
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ATWMedia 9/28/2022 6:06am
9/28/2022 6:06am
jridout12 wrote:
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams...
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams had to run for this race. I heard in some post race interviews that Max Ansties bike had problems with the European spec stuff. I was also at the race and I noticed you didn’t smell the super strong race gas smell like you typically do at an American race
BobPA wrote:
We noticed the same thing, and the bikes were very quiet compared to the Nationals I attended.
I know the Euro guys are using ETS, which has a very different smell compared to the VP MRPRO6. I'm not sure exactly which fuel they are running my guess is it is the ETS ESC 1955, because that is the FIM approved fuel, and I am not sure that VP has one anymore because they are used predominantly in the US. The sound is probably due to tighter restrictions from the FIM as well on noise. ETS smells terrible in my opinion.
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stremme12 9/28/2022 6:09am
9/28/2022 6:09am
jridout12 wrote:
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams...
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams had to run for this race. I heard in some post race interviews that Max Ansties bike had problems with the European spec stuff. I was also at the race and I noticed you didn’t smell the super strong race gas smell like you typically do at an American race
Didn't Anstie have problems with Fuel earlier this year at redbud as well on an American spec?
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 9/28/2022 6:12am
9/28/2022 6:12am
The US Team is not required to run Euro spec fuels for this race. They do have to follow the sound requirements though.
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dmm698
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dmm698 9/28/2022 6:14am
9/28/2022 6:14am
Saw quite a few 15 gal pales around of "VP MGP"
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stremme12
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stremme12 9/28/2022 6:16am
9/28/2022 6:16am
8tensolutions wrote:
The US Team is not required to run Euro spec fuels for this race. They do have to follow the sound requirements though.
Are you sure about that? I do believe the FIM has a specific section in their rules for a fuel spec.
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ATWMedia 9/28/2022 6:21am
9/28/2022 6:21am
8tensolutions wrote:
The US Team is not required to run Euro spec fuels for this race. They do have to follow the sound requirements though.
I thought with this being an FIM sanctioned event that they have to follow FIM rules for fuel.
ATWMedia
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ATWMedia 9/28/2022 6:30am
9/28/2022 6:30am
dmm698 wrote:
Saw quite a few 15 gal pales around of "VP MGP"
The MGP fuel is not really designed for single cylinder engines. It is designed to be run in more of your road racing type bikes, which may be the only fuel that is FIM approved.
rjg
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rjg 9/28/2022 6:34am
9/28/2022 6:34am
European emission regulations are looser then North America so the bikes may need some ecu tweaks.
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jridout12
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jridout12 9/28/2022 6:36am
9/28/2022 6:36am
rjg wrote:
European emission regulations are looser then North America so the bikes may need some ecu tweaks.
Interesting. I would have thought it was the other way around
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jridout12
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jridout12 9/28/2022 6:38am
9/28/2022 6:38am
jridout12 wrote:
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams...
Probably a dumb question but someone enlighten me on what the difference is between the US fuel teams run and the European spec fuel that teams had to run for this race. I heard in some post race interviews that Max Ansties bike had problems with the European spec stuff. I was also at the race and I noticed you didn’t smell the super strong race gas smell like you typically do at an American race
stremme12 wrote:
Didn't Anstie have problems with Fuel earlier this year at redbud as well on an American spec?
I believe he had an issue with fuel boiling or running out of gas. I can't remember which off the top of my head. Maybe both?
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ATWMedia 9/28/2022 6:40am
9/28/2022 6:40am
rjg wrote:
European emission regulations are looser then North America so the bikes may need some ecu tweaks.
They are definitely tighter than the US. Look into the EURO 5 emissions standards. They are notoriously stricter than the US. Firepower Honda also uses Renegade fuels which they do not make an FIM approved fuel, so I am unsure as to what fuel they ran this past weekend in Anstie's bike.
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Brent
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Brent 9/28/2022 10:05am
9/28/2022 10:05am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2022 1:25pm
I believe that the oxygenation level in Elf 102 MXGP race spec fuel is lower than the MRPRO6 race spec fuel used in AMA , but the octane level is in MXGP fuel is higher.

Not sure which fuel they were allowed to use at the MXON, but guys I know who have raced with both fuels say the American spec fuel is a lot better.
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Leave Us To 9/28/2022 12:45pm
9/28/2022 12:45pm
BobPA wrote:
We noticed the same thing, and the bikes were very quiet compared to the Nationals I attended.
Friday afternoon involved hours of 2 M Max sound testing.
tek14
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tek14 9/28/2022 12:54pm
9/28/2022 12:54pm
rjg wrote:
European emission regulations are looser then North America so the bikes may need some ecu tweaks.
Wrong.
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Richard Tease II 9/29/2022 4:21am
9/29/2022 4:21am
Fuck what ever brand of fuel Anstie was running they better look out as his piss clam is not going to be happy and may take to the socials
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holeshot413
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holeshot413 9/29/2022 10:26am
9/29/2022 10:26am
8tensolutions wrote:
The US Team is not required to run Euro spec fuels for this race. They do have to follow the sound requirements though.
yup
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FoxTrav
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FoxTrav 9/30/2022 10:14am
9/30/2022 10:14am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 10:32am
US teams were running VP's "VP Moto" which is an FIM compliant fuel. FIM is a bit stricter with specs, but most notably the octane(-95) & aromatic compound limits, hence the lack of scent. Oxy is similar at -1% compared to US.

As for ETS, they use different aromatics for each blend, like VP does. So their US spec pro fuel(USMX21K2) is that super strong distinct smell, whereas overseas they use a different FIM spec fuel with minimal smell.
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Brent 9/30/2022 10:54am
9/30/2022 10:54am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 3:21pm


This is the fuel we used in EMX 250 at the Belgian, Swedish, and French GP’s this year, Elf 102. I don't know that much about it, except that it has less oxygenation tha US based raced fuels.

all the other EMX guys are using it.

IMO it is not nearly as good as VP MR Pro 6 or even 6 ht that we have in the USA.
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FoxTrav
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FoxTrav 9/30/2022 2:01pm
9/30/2022 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 2:12pm
Brent wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/09/30/571398/s1200_56D8601A_3E58_4677_B5FC_B7C7B1A5C915.jpg[/img] This is the fuel we used in EMX 250 at the Belgian, Swedish, and French GP’s this year, Elf 102. I don't know that much...


This is the fuel we used in EMX 250 at the Belgian, Swedish, and French GP’s this year, Elf 102. I don't know that much about it, except that it has less oxygenation tha US based raced fuels.

all the other EMX guys are using it.

IMO it is not nearly as good as VP MR Pro 6 or even 6 ht that we have in the USA.
Elf(Total) makes veryyy good fuel! The Race 102 used is their all-around stuff, but their MOTO 4S GP or ATMO MAX would be the equivalent to VP's MR Pro 6 or similar blends. This would be the fuel for real noticeable power that still falls within FIM & AMA limitations. RCH & Factory Suzuki were using it a few years ago. Hyperfuels.com is the current US Supplier for anyone interested. MITS 46 for 2-strokes is awesome too.

https://additives-fuels.totalenergies.com/en/racing-range/racing-fuel

https://hyperfuels.com/collections/fuels?sort_by=title-ascending&filter…
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Brent 9/30/2022 3:27pm
9/30/2022 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 3:28pm
FoxTrav wrote:
Elf(Total) makes veryyy good fuel! The Race 102 used is their all-around stuff, but their MOTO 4S GP or ATMO MAX would be the equivalent to...
Elf(Total) makes veryyy good fuel! The Race 102 used is their all-around stuff, but their MOTO 4S GP or ATMO MAX would be the equivalent to VP's MR Pro 6 or similar blends. This would be the fuel for real noticeable power that still falls within FIM & AMA limitations. RCH & Factory Suzuki were using it a few years ago. Hyperfuels.com is the current US Supplier for anyone interested. MITS 46 for 2-strokes is awesome too.

https://additives-fuels.totalenergies.com/en/racing-range/racing-fuel

https://hyperfuels.com/collections/fuels?sort_by=title-ascending&filter…
We considered the atmo max I think, but nobody had it in Holland where the team is based, and we were told that it was not on the approved fuel list for EMX?

Thanks for the info, still learning…
chrisg19
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chrisg19 9/30/2022 3:27pm
9/30/2022 3:27pm
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it only when/if there is a protest, or are there regular checks required? Just curious and don’t know the answer. Thanks if anyone knows.
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stremme12
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stremme12 9/30/2022 3:34pm
9/30/2022 3:34pm
chrisg19 wrote:
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it...
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it only when/if there is a protest, or are there regular checks required? Just curious and don’t know the answer. Thanks if anyone knows.
Italy was DQ'd at the 2018 mxon for not meeting fuel requirements.
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Brent
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Brent 9/30/2022 3:40pm
9/30/2022 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 3:42pm
chrisg19 wrote:
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it...
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it only when/if there is a protest, or are there regular checks required? Just curious and don’t know the answer. Thanks if anyone knows.
I can tell you our experiences.

We raced 3 AMA nationals with a private bike, but never one tech inspection over two years- they didn't even want to see any bikes from anyone before we went to the track. The AMA was more concerned about having the right practice sticker or wristband.

We also did multiple MXGP rounds this year, and they inspect both the primary race and back up bikes top to bottom, sound check the bike, and check over the rider’s gear, all helmets, and chest protector ( required) on Friday. It is a long ordeal.

I also saw fuel testing In MXGP, but I think it was a random test because we never got asked for fuel.
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chrisg19
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chrisg19 9/30/2022 3:52pm
9/30/2022 3:52pm
Brent wrote:
I can tell you our experiences. We raced 3 AMA nationals with a private bike, but never one tech inspection over two years- they didn't even...
I can tell you our experiences.

We raced 3 AMA nationals with a private bike, but never one tech inspection over two years- they didn't even want to see any bikes from anyone before we went to the track. The AMA was more concerned about having the right practice sticker or wristband.

We also did multiple MXGP rounds this year, and they inspect both the primary race and back up bikes top to bottom, sound check the bike, and check over the rider’s gear, all helmets, and chest protector ( required) on Friday. It is a long ordeal.

I also saw fuel testing In MXGP, but I think it was a random test because we never got asked for fuel.
That’s very interesting. Thank you for answering.
romain524
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romain524 10/1/2022 1:07am
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Brent wrote:
We considered the atmo max I think, but nobody had it in Holland where the team is based, and we were told that it was not...
We considered the atmo max I think, but nobody had it in Holland where the team is based, and we were told that it was not on the approved fuel list for EMX?

Thanks for the info, still learning…
Hutten metal doesn’t provide fuel for their riders?
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romain524 10/1/2022 1:22am
10/1/2022 1:22am
Brent wrote:
I can tell you our experiences. We raced 3 AMA nationals with a private bike, but never one tech inspection over two years- they didn't even...
I can tell you our experiences.

We raced 3 AMA nationals with a private bike, but never one tech inspection over two years- they didn't even want to see any bikes from anyone before we went to the track. The AMA was more concerned about having the right practice sticker or wristband.

We also did multiple MXGP rounds this year, and they inspect both the primary race and back up bikes top to bottom, sound check the bike, and check over the rider’s gear, all helmets, and chest protector ( required) on Friday. It is a long ordeal.

I also saw fuel testing In MXGP, but I think it was a random test because we never got asked for fuel.
Right! as long as you have the eject device in the helmet otherwise the only thing they care about is if you have the right AMA logo on the jersey! Haha
It’s crazy that we go to “tech” without the bike 😂
Before 2020 I feel like they were checking out the bike a bit more.

In the GP’s they also put every bikes on scale at tech. I remember helping a friend in 2015/2016 at some EMX rounds and watching the factory bikes on scale and they were really close to weight limit.
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Bearuno 10/1/2022 9:32am
10/1/2022 9:32am Edited Date/Time 10/1/2022 9:46am
chrisg19 wrote:
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it...
I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating. I just had a question. How often are the pros bikes checked for adherence to the rules? Is it only when/if there is a protest, or are there regular checks required? Just curious and don’t know the answer. Thanks if anyone knows.
stremme12 wrote:
Italy was DQ'd at the 2018 mxon for not meeting fuel requirements.
To my recollection, it was just the one Italian riders bike - Cervellin - that was found to have 'sus' fuel. But that had the whole team out of the results.

8 different riders bikes fuel were tested : Barcia, Van Horebeek, Cervellin, Tomac, Tixier, Plessinger, Lawrence and Cairoli. So, it was not an entire Italian Team 'thing'. I'd say a fuel spec 'F' up on Cervellin's crew part - they apparently bought the fuel they used in the USA - Cairoli and Lupino brought their own in from Europe. But, there's fuel rules, and, testing, so, them's the breaks, so Italy was out, a few months after the event. .

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