Deegan Signs with Star

jemcee
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jemcee 10/12/2021 4:07am
10/12/2021 4:07am
People wondering why he got the ride
Tomac to Yamaha video on Racerx channel 160K views in 1week
Anderson to Kawasaki video on Racerx channel 32k views in 6 days
Deegan to Yamaha video on Deegans channel 350k views in 20 hours

That amount of eyes has gotta help
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88FYNN88
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88FYNN88 10/12/2021 4:07am
10/12/2021 4:07am
Sully wrote:
[i]"If he "only got on a 250f a few months ago!!!", then why did he get a ride with the most powerful team in motocross?"[/i] I'm...
"If he "only got on a 250f a few months ago!!!", then why did he get a ride with the most powerful team in motocross?"

I'm curious if you had this kind of animosity when AC moved from superminis to the most powerful 250 team in motocross (at the time)? Or any of the current pros who had solid 250f amateur deals right when they got off mini bikes? Your issue seems to be more with his name and popularity, and that dislike seems to be clouding your ability to see that Haiden has as solid a pedigree as any of the high profile amateurs that came before him.
Brent wrote:
Adam Cianciarulo was as fast or faster than the leaders in the class when he turned professional. he won the first supercross he entered. Haiden Deegan...
Adam Cianciarulo was as fast or faster than the leaders in the class when he turned professional. he won the first supercross he entered.

Haiden Deegan is exceptionally fast and talented, but he is not CURRENTLY even close to the speed of the most of the current regular guys in the class, based on his training times he would not even sniff the top 25 right now (yes, I realize he is only 15). Maybe it was the shitty underpowered KTM he was riding to blame, who knows.

Austin Black, Derek Kelley, Ty Masterpool, or Preston Kilroy would simply level him in a national race if it were held today. Those guys don't get mentioned here at all, and Ty got the short end on his Star Yamaha tryout.

YES he has potential (so do the racers I listed)

YES he has multiple Loretta's titles ( so did Mike Alessi)

YES he is only 15 and has a steep learning curve ahead of him. He could be the next Villopoto, I dont know. BUT I dont know of any rider who got so much from showing so little on the track.

Downvote me all you want, but from my view Yamaha could be buying a social media darling as opposed to a top performer, I hope I'm wrong.

I sure hope he makes me eat my words, because he is a really nice kid.
Brent is your real name Casey Cochran? You can just say it. HAHAH
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CPR
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CPR 10/12/2021 4:24am
10/12/2021 4:24am
I tried to read this thread, but didn’t manage to get through the first page, sorry I just don’t get the hype.
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DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 10/12/2021 5:09am
10/12/2021 5:09am
Some of ya'll going to learn, anything short of praise and worship for the "chosen one" is unacceptable.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 10/12/2021 6:24am
10/12/2021 6:24am
TunaBro wrote:
His potential is what got him the ride.
His social influence got him the ride

Fixed it for ya
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twotwosix
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twotwosix 10/12/2021 6:28am
10/12/2021 6:28am
Super happy for the kid and his family, as well as Star. Kudos to a bright future.

Having said that, probably not the best intro video to show him floundering around on a soft track for 8 minutes lol. Definitely looked like B rider there. Save that for a vlog and push out a real highlight, insta banger style 2 min welcome to the team video instead.
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onewheelwheaties 10/12/2021 6:34am
10/12/2021 6:34am
TunaBro wrote:
His potential is what got him the ride.
gt80rider wrote:
His social influence got him the ride

Fixed it for ya
Is he not one of the best of the current crop moving up to 250Fs?

What am do you think should have so clearly got the ride in his place?
His social influence is definitely an asset but all those LL titles are exactly the resume material a top am needs to land a top ride.
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Question
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Question 10/12/2021 6:45am
10/12/2021 6:45am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2021 6:49am
jemcee wrote:
People wondering why he got the ride Tomac to Yamaha video on Racerx channel 160K views in 1week Anderson to Kawasaki video on Racerx channel 32k...
People wondering why he got the ride
Tomac to Yamaha video on Racerx channel 160K views in 1week
Anderson to Kawasaki video on Racerx channel 32k views in 6 days
Deegan to Yamaha video on Deegans channel 350k views in 20 hours

That amount of eyes has gotta help
Yes the views help to negotiate good contracts.

But this is so far from the main reason he got the ride.

The kid deserves it, he has earned it, he just got a chance like any top amateurs get the chance to move up. You can't buy talent. You can't buy LL titles or the fact that he has been pretty dominant the last 2 or 3 years. Watch how the amateur scene works or watch his channel to see how many races he won the last 3 years, how he rides SX already, or what kind of program he has. Star racing didn't offer a contract because they were thinking he would just make internet views ; he got enrolled into their program like any top amateurs because they see a potential and think that he has what it takes and that he will be putting the work to win races during his pro career. Nothing less, nothing more.
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Question
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Question 10/12/2021 6:47am
10/12/2021 6:47am
TunaBro wrote:
His potential is what got him the ride.
gt80rider wrote:
His social influence got him the ride

Fixed it for ya

Total BS. In this case, thanks in advance to explain how any LL winner got their ride, social media ?
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 10/12/2021 6:50am
10/12/2021 6:50am
This thread reminds me of the feud between biggie smalls and tupac.
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mx965
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mx965 10/12/2021 6:50am
10/12/2021 6:50am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2021 7:02am
APLMAN99 wrote:
"this sort of shit"? What's wrong with it? Did Deegan not fulfill any of his contractual obligations? Or did the support that he received indenture him...
"this sort of shit"? What's wrong with it? Did Deegan not fulfill any of his contractual obligations? Or did the support that he received indenture him to KTM for life?

I don't understand the problem.

Maybe KTM didn't actually offer him a contract to move forward........
Crush wrote:
Not that I don’t think KTM got something out of it, but the amateur scene as a whole, doesn’t it highlight the craziness of signing kids...
Not that I don’t think KTM got something out of it, but the amateur scene as a whole, doesn’t it highlight the craziness of signing kids to long term deals with so many unknowns?

Sure it’s worked here for the time being, both sides got something, but he could, as many do, just as easily not worked out, burned out, got injured, not performed etc And you’d have to assume KTM did have some sort of hope he’d stay orange.

The list is probably pretty lopsided the other way and the model is more and more turning to long term, high dollar support. He’s probably the most high profile since AC and with the social aspect the most valuable, no?

The amateur scene is only getting more expensive and being pushed up by these deals too. It was team green and yellow with free bikes… then Geico started going crazy, PC had to respond, Star and KTM but there hasn’t been a conga line of chosen kids hanging banners either.
I know what you are saying, however, I feel this is a different case.

Like them or not the Deegans have the most popular youtube page in moto and get more social interaction (between Brian and Haiden) than any pro rider...KTM got more out of his years as an AM than most pros in terms of ROI.

This outdated methodology of professional race performance being the only metric to measure success or failure of a riders contract has to end.
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mx965
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mx965 10/12/2021 7:01am
10/12/2021 7:01am
Food for thought: Why do folks just assume a team invests in a rider solely based on on the idea of them selling bikes? Some in this thread have said "does anyone actually buy a bike bc ____ rides the brand?" What about the other 50 parts/apparel/etc sponsors of the team. I can assure you when the team who is seemingly dominating the sport, in terms of talent, right now is using a certain brand, it doesn't hurt the brand sales? Also the team invests in the rider to show and ROI to the sponsors to ask for more $ as well.

It's not just about Yamaha selling bikes. These teams are ran the same as any other business.
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Crush
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Crush 10/12/2021 7:21am
10/12/2021 7:21am
mx965 wrote:
I know what you are saying, however, I feel this is a different case. Like them or not the Deegans have the most popular youtube page...
I know what you are saying, however, I feel this is a different case.

Like them or not the Deegans have the most popular youtube page in moto and get more social interaction (between Brian and Haiden) than any pro rider...KTM got more out of his years as an AM than most pros in terms of ROI.

This outdated methodology of professional race performance being the only metric to measure success or failure of a riders contract has to end.
Yeah he’s definitely most valuable since AC and maybe in gosh knows based on that alone… but the other way to look at that is it’s now it’s a lost asset even if you did get ROI. You’d have to imagine KTM had a seat for him in their plans.
BonglorD
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BonglorD 10/12/2021 7:23am
10/12/2021 7:23am
I'm a bit torn on all of this.

FIRST and foremost, I'll give the kid props on his amateur accomplishments. His LL titles clearly prove he is a competitor.
I'm old school and I think the whole social media thing is here to stay and I am not a big fan of it for many reasons....but it's here and we have to deal with it.
Something about Brian make me uncomfortable. I can't really put my finger on it. I Do think he tries to raise his kids the right way but some of it comes across as he's simply doing it for looks/likes. It's like he can't fully let go of HIS mx history. Most vid's he always got to include HIM riding a little or HIM trying to show everyone that he can still whip or HIM pushing some obscure narrative that's socially edgy.
I wish Haiden the best of luck but I promise there is some 12/13/14 year old in Minnesota/Texas/Nor Cal that we haven't heard of that is grinding away in inferior equipment and a limited budget that is hungry to kick Haiden's ass in a few years.
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FGR01
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FGR01 10/12/2021 7:28am
10/12/2021 7:28am
Wow, lots of pedantic ding dongs in this thread. Brent couldn't explain it any clearer that he gets the kid isn't going Pro right now but he's got some work to do speed-wise before he does. He's not "hating" on the kid. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. I also personally believe he will get to the level he needs. Take a kid with his "potential" and current level and have him train and test with the rest of the Star team at the Goat farm and I think it's inevitable.

Speaking of which, to those saying he should have gone to PC, do you think the relative geographic location of the Goat Farm to where the Deegans live might have played into their decision? I do.
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yak651
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yak651 10/12/2021 7:42am
10/12/2021 7:42am
Landonious217 wrote:
No, if I had the option I would 100% go with Pro Circuit. The opportunity to work with Mitch Payton and crew would be too hard...
No, if I had the option I would 100% go with Pro Circuit. The opportunity to work with Mitch Payton and crew would be too hard to pass up.
shuggs wrote:
This!! The KID has got 2 years to enhance his skills before the reality of being a pro hits. I would have hoped that pro circuit...
This!! The KID has got 2 years to enhance his skills before the reality of being a pro hits. I would have hoped that pro circuit would have major input to help him develop, plus would have been able to keep monster as a personal sponsor
What amateur riders do Pro Circuit support on the level of star? Team Green does, but does mitch besides providing motor/suspension work? Star has an established amateur program, is there really any other OEM comparison? Seems KTM orange brigade would be the only thing close and that seems to be focused on more the mini riders.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 10/12/2021 7:46am
10/12/2021 7:46am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Still not sure what "this sort of shit" you are referring to that would "have the amateur industry rethink the method". This appears to actually validate...
Still not sure what "this sort of shit" you are referring to that would "have the amateur industry rethink the method".

This appears to actually validate that method. It seems that the 'amateur industry' helped make an opportunity for a young racer get exposure and support for more than just a year at a time and with a very competitive team as well.

For the life of me, I am truly not sure what you are unhappy about or what you are referring to as "this sort of shit".
Crush wrote:
This sort of shit – invest huge money at an amateur level, starting on 80s, and have something happen that doesn't validate that investment – in this case, him...
This sort of shit – invest huge money at an amateur level, starting on 80s, and have something happen that doesn't validate that investment – in this case, him signing elsewhere before turning Pro, OR as has happened many times before injuries, drugs, burn out, just not pan out, shit results etc

Sure, in Deegan's case, KTM got marketing value out of it, but that's not the norm either, no other kids have his marketing ROI pull, and it's crazy to suggest KTM wouldn't have at least wanted to see it turn into something more at the Pro level...

If you want to point to Deegan right now and say it makes sense for this level of investment to continue as the model for amateurs, it's not hard to point out the other side being the countless others who didn't work... just look at the historical Horizon award list, how many of those didn't work out... and then think that each year there would be another 2–4 kids on other brands who had similar investment... and yet the titles are won by a select few, and often those we didn't see coming or who didn't have that investment.
You use the term 'investment' as if he's something that they own. They don't.

The money, equipment, and support that they have devoted to him were not an 'investment', per se. They were 'expense', with the hope that the expense would increase overall brand awareness for their company. And I would say that it did.

If they were really going to look at it as an 'investment', then they would have figured out how to not let their 'asset' go. Locking him in with a 'lifetime' contract would have been more considered an investment.

There are only so many titles each year. There has never been a guarantee that the money you spend on an amateur will guarantee you later pro titles. I'm just not understanding how the Deegan situation is an indicator of a broken system, unless the desired system is that support as an amateur entitles a manufacturer or sponsor for lifetime control of the athlete while giving the manufacturer/sponsor the sole ability to decide to cut ties if desired.
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yak651
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yak651 10/12/2021 7:46am
10/12/2021 7:46am
FGR01 wrote:
Wow, lots of pedantic ding dongs in this thread. Brent couldn't explain it any clearer that he gets the kid isn't going Pro right now but...
Wow, lots of pedantic ding dongs in this thread. Brent couldn't explain it any clearer that he gets the kid isn't going Pro right now but he's got some work to do speed-wise before he does. He's not "hating" on the kid. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. I also personally believe he will get to the level he needs. Take a kid with his "potential" and current level and have him train and test with the rest of the Star team at the Goat farm and I think it's inevitable.

Speaking of which, to those saying he should have gone to PC, do you think the relative geographic location of the Goat Farm to where the Deegans live might have played into their decision? I do.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but to me Brent is saying he doesn't deserve the ride because he's not pro level speed at this time. The thing is Star signed him for amateur races, not pro at this time. So don't see the hate, he's not expected to be pro level speed today.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/12/2021 7:58am
10/12/2021 7:58am
TunaBro wrote:
His potential is what got him the ride.
gt80rider wrote:
His social influence got him the ride

Fixed it for ya
His results got him the ride. Do you think without his social media he would be racing out of the back of a pickup after winning supermini at LL's? When was the last time the fastest supermini at LL's didn't have a "factory" ride the next year?

2020 - Ryder D - Team Green
2019 - Vohland - KTM
2018 - Thrasher - KTM
2017 - Masterpool - Star
2016 - Shimoda/Hammaker - FC Honda/Team Green
2015 - Marchbanks - Team Green
2014 - Forkner - Team Green
2013 - Harrison - Team Green
2012 - AC - Team Green
2011 - Webb - Star
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mx 219
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mx 219 10/12/2021 8:00am
10/12/2021 8:00am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2021 8:01am
BonglorD wrote:
I'm a bit torn on all of this. FIRST and foremost, I'll give the kid props on his amateur accomplishments. His LL titles clearly prove he...
I'm a bit torn on all of this.

FIRST and foremost, I'll give the kid props on his amateur accomplishments. His LL titles clearly prove he is a competitor.
I'm old school and I think the whole social media thing is here to stay and I am not a big fan of it for many reasons....but it's here and we have to deal with it.
Something about Brian make me uncomfortable. I can't really put my finger on it. I Do think he tries to raise his kids the right way but some of it comes across as he's simply doing it for looks/likes. It's like he can't fully let go of HIS mx history. Most vid's he always got to include HIM riding a little or HIM trying to show everyone that he can still whip or HIM pushing some obscure narrative that's socially edgy.
I wish Haiden the best of luck but I promise there is some 12/13/14 year old in Minnesota/Texas/Nor Cal that we haven't heard of that is grinding away in inferior equipment and a limited budget that is hungry to kick Haiden's ass in a few years.
I agree with the last sentence. Also a lot of people with money (especially 2nd and 3rd generation) have a hard time when the going gets tough.

Will be interesting to see how it goes.
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shuggs
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shuggs 10/12/2021 8:09am
10/12/2021 8:09am
Just watched the ‘intro vid’ and he looks ok on the bike (no surprise there👍), BUT to me why the big rush to get on 250f?? Why not put him on a 125 for a few months and let his body grow while getting used to full sized bike? I mean the KID is only 15, just off supermini
McG194
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McG194 10/12/2021 8:30am
10/12/2021 8:30am
backinthesaddleagain wrote:
I think Broc Glover won a 125 national at 16, and Lechien also?
Completely different times. Now everyone is at a facility and training all the time so the competition is all the same and close to each others speed.
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tprice07
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tprice07 10/12/2021 8:33am
10/12/2021 8:33am
It seems like a good fit for them. I would have thought Team Green and eventually Pro Circuit would have been a good fit for them.
Flatliner
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Flatliner 10/12/2021 8:41am
10/12/2021 8:41am
I'm not sure why anyone is worried about speed, he's been on a big bike for two months or so, he's got time to get there...

Hopefully he spends most of his time back east riding soft dirt.
TunaBro
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TunaBro 10/12/2021 9:15am
10/12/2021 9:15am
His results and his potential is what got him the ride. Obviously if he didn’t perform up to this point he wouldn’t be where he is but it’s also based on his potential. Star is betting on him being a winner in the pros and also an earner for them. His social media following is massive and that’s attractive to a brand. No more orange bikes on his channel. It’ll all be blue now. As far as marketing goes, that’s a huge win for Star and Yamaha.
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jjavaman 10/12/2021 9:23am
10/12/2021 9:23am
Overcusser wrote:
surprised they made him switch to Bell helmets. I feel like safety equipment like that is 99.95% fit and personal preference.
Sully wrote:
I’m pretty sure Bell is a team sponsor for the 250 guys, so no getting around it.
Overcusser wrote:
just seems like you're opening yourself up to a nasty lawsuit if a rider prefers a helmet, is forced to wear another brand, and ends up...
just seems like you're opening yourself up to a nasty lawsuit if a rider prefers a helmet, is forced to wear another brand, and ends up getting injured. You would never see the Dallas Cowboys say you can only wear the Riddell Speedflex, for instance.
Right, let’s sue because we crashed….
dbaker521
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dbaker521 10/12/2021 9:51am
10/12/2021 9:51am
Star just keeps killing it. Can't wait to see the 30 for 30 on the eventual Star Yamaha downfall.
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ScoobyDoo81 10/12/2021 9:53am
10/12/2021 9:53am
TunaBro wrote:
His potential is what got him the ride.
gt80rider wrote:
His social influence got him the ride

Fixed it for ya
not the fact that he was the fastest kid in his class by a considerable margin...
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ocscottie
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ocscottie 10/12/2021 10:03am
10/12/2021 10:03am
shuggs wrote:
Just watched the ‘intro vid’ and he looks ok on the bike (no surprise there👍), BUT to me why the big rush to get on 250f...
Just watched the ‘intro vid’ and he looks ok on the bike (no surprise there👍), BUT to me why the big rush to get on 250f?? Why not put him on a 125 for a few months and let his body grow while getting used to full sized bike? I mean the KID is only 15, just off supermini
He did ride a lot of 125's on his SX track, the vids were epic!!
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