David Pingree & Gypsy 125cc Class

deanwhite51
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deanwhite51
Edited Date/Time 7/17/2021 2:05am
Interesting input from David Pingree. 100% agree.
we all know it would never happen due to not all manufactures making 125's and so much R&D into the 4 strokes.

https://youtu.be/OmUiV5bQhXk
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caviar&cigarettes338 7/15/2021 6:02pm
7/15/2021 6:02pm
deanwhite51 wrote:
Interesting input from David Pingree. 100% agree. we all know it would never happen due to not all manufactures making 125's and so much R&D into...
Interesting input from David Pingree. 100% agree.
we all know it would never happen due to not all manufactures making 125's and so much R&D into the 4 strokes.

https://youtu.be/OmUiV5bQhXk
Europe and the emx125 and 250 class seems to be doing pretty good and riders coming out of that class to mxgp mx2 fast right away. Why wouldn’t it work in the USA . The oems that don’t make modern 2 strokes didn’t just threaten to pull out of racing mxgp like how everyone here in USA said Honda and Kawasaki were about 2 strokes Racing . And those oems in Europe that don’t have modern 2 stroke they build a old one up for their am riders to race in emx125.
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profeshenal125 7/15/2021 7:41pm
7/15/2021 7:41pm
It is odd that there isn’t a 125 regional series at least. The 125 class in Wisconsin is popular. Deep sand track in April, with a high of 42, rain, snow threatening. Aztalan racer X vet race has a full gate of 125,s.
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TheGetFresh
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TheGetFresh 7/15/2021 10:15pm
7/15/2021 10:15pm
If you don’t televise the race, the OEMs won’t care. Get rid of minimum age for pro class but put a 2 year or 1 championship on a 125cc requirement.
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Homey55
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Homey55 7/16/2021 6:54am
7/16/2021 6:54am
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then spec the premier electric bikes.

The OEM's will not support a 125, maybe they will support an entry-level electric bike that can compete on a true SX track? It gives them a chance to "right-size" the bikes power to bridge the gap between an 80/110 and a 250f.

Hell, maybe you make a chassis that will accept different size electric motors, or provide a spec motor/electric package that fits in an OEM-provided chassis? That seems like a good opportunity for the OEM's to get together and help tone down the bikes a bit. It's obvious that the bikes are getting out of hand for anyone under "expert" level.
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JMX82
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JMX82 7/16/2021 7:09am
7/16/2021 7:09am
If you build it they will come... Plenty of support from factories for riders in EMX125 series. Why it would any different across the bond?
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AH387
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AH387 7/16/2021 7:39am
7/16/2021 7:39am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2021 8:36am
At this point, like Ping said, the gap between an 85cc's and a 250F is too big. The 125 has a proper place in the lineup and it should be up to the powers that be in the sport to promote the 125. The overall health of the sport you would think would be better if 125s are used as a stepping stone or for new riders (not to mention the cheaper price.) I'd rather decisions be made on that criteria, than whether or not Honda and Kawasaki (and I guess Suzuki, if they even count) want to produce 2 strokes or not. If they choose not to, then that is their issue.
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Jeff_Crutcher 7/16/2021 8:33am
7/16/2021 8:33am
KTM Husq GG Yam. 99% of riders go from 85 to 125. What am I missing? The 125 classes in the Midwest are healthy. Love me some Ping but his not going to local races and living in SoCal is showing here.
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ama530
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ama530 7/16/2021 9:31am
7/16/2021 9:31am
Homey55 wrote:
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then...
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then spec the premier electric bikes.

The OEM's will not support a 125, maybe they will support an entry-level electric bike that can compete on a true SX track? It gives them a chance to "right-size" the bikes power to bridge the gap between an 80/110 and a 250f.

Hell, maybe you make a chassis that will accept different size electric motors, or provide a spec motor/electric package that fits in an OEM-provided chassis? That seems like a good opportunity for the OEM's to get together and help tone down the bikes a bit. It's obvious that the bikes are getting out of hand for anyone under "expert" level.
The only caveat is that electric bikes will be even more expensive than the current gas models. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes we need to go back in history to go forward into the future. Learn a bit. I agree with the other posters on here that the 125 class is gaining ground and becoming more popular across the nation. Now we need the other companies beside Yamaha & the KTM brands to wake up and see the market. My family rides off-road. My little guy moved up to a full size bike last year. KTM 85 to a KTM150XCW. It was a nice transition. The 250s are much too powerful for a 14 year old that weighs 120lbs.
xrmark
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xrmark 7/16/2021 9:37am
7/16/2021 9:37am
Just need somebody with a lot of money to start up a National 125 series like the old 4 stroke nats
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yota
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yota 7/16/2021 9:40am
7/16/2021 9:40am
IMHO, honda and any other manufacturer that quit making 2 strokes can just stay out of it. hope they don't jump back in. I'm a honda 2 stroke guy (have 125, 250 and 500) but will never buy a new honda motorcycle. I hate how they suck up to the greenie movement and try to come across as "green". there is nothing about heavy manufacturing that is green. make a few more private jets honda.
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soggy
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soggy 7/16/2021 10:06am
7/16/2021 10:06am
Homey55 wrote:
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then...
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then spec the premier electric bikes.

The OEM's will not support a 125, maybe they will support an entry-level electric bike that can compete on a true SX track? It gives them a chance to "right-size" the bikes power to bridge the gap between an 80/110 and a 250f.

Hell, maybe you make a chassis that will accept different size electric motors, or provide a spec motor/electric package that fits in an OEM-provided chassis? That seems like a good opportunity for the OEM's to get together and help tone down the bikes a bit. It's obvious that the bikes are getting out of hand for anyone under "expert" level.
There are only two oem racing currently that don’t make a 125. I don’t think the argument that OEM’s wouldn’t support it holds water anymore.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 7/16/2021 10:17am
7/16/2021 10:17am Edited Date/Time 7/17/2021 2:05am
Homey55 wrote:
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then...
Maybe the right answer is to have an electric bike class with comparable power to a 125? Start the rookies on that, develop the bikes, then spec the premier electric bikes.

The OEM's will not support a 125, maybe they will support an entry-level electric bike that can compete on a true SX track? It gives them a chance to "right-size" the bikes power to bridge the gap between an 80/110 and a 250f.

Hell, maybe you make a chassis that will accept different size electric motors, or provide a spec motor/electric package that fits in an OEM-provided chassis? That seems like a good opportunity for the OEM's to get together and help tone down the bikes a bit. It's obvious that the bikes are getting out of hand for anyone under "expert" level.
soggy wrote:
There are only two oem racing currently that don’t make a 125. I don’t think the argument that OEM’s wouldn’t support it holds water anymore.
I agree, it's an outdated argument at this point.

The three big OEMs that put the most money into racing are KTM Group, Honda and Yamaha. Honda is the odd one out. Kawasaki is relatively conservative with their spending in pro racing compared to the three other major OEMs. Suzuki is a complete non-factor, Beta is more involved in racing than Suzuki.


Also, the large majority of 85cc kids move to a 125 in Europe when they go to big bikes. Mostly because of EMX125. The trickledown effect of that class is huge, there are national 125 classes in probably all of the European countries. So this whole 125 class debate is actually not even a thing over here.
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robotsfrom
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robotsfrom 7/16/2021 10:42am
7/16/2021 10:42am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2021 10:43am
A 125 class also gives a platform for some of the smaller manufacturers to shine state side. It could require the rules being loosened a bit for 125's, but brands like TM, Fantic, etc. could find a reason to race state side and a foot hold into moving forward into big bike teams.

Also, it would be super useful for US based teams to use the series to sort out which amateurs can run a whole series of 30 +2's rather than just perform at a couple amateur nationals a year.

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yota
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yota 7/16/2021 2:40pm
7/16/2021 2:40pm
a guy in my riding group said that there is a pro 125 class at every National. never heard of this. did I miss something?
soggy
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soggy 7/16/2021 3:58pm
7/16/2021 3:58pm
yota wrote:
a guy in my riding group said that there is a pro 125 class at every National. never heard of this. did I miss something?
There was an iteration of it when they did the 125 dream race but I wouldn’t call that a legit pro class. Hopefully it comes back.
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 7/16/2021 5:08pm
7/16/2021 5:08pm
The things Ping pointed out regarding difficulty of going fast on a 125cc and the things it teaches a rider are right on target. It's an essential step in being a more skilled, safer rider. Hopefully the interest in those bikes continues to grow.

On a positive note, Yamaha did revamp their 125cc engine this year and do a true update to the bodywork to give it a modern seat profile (including the sub-frame).

The interesting part is that they didn't touch the 250cc engine. I think that's a nod to the number of kids racing a 125cc for a year or two in the amateur pipeline.

Those thoughts make me think with all the new blood coming into the sport in the past year, perhaps the numbers for these bikes are on the way up...

Our local races (Pacific Northwest) often have a "125cc Open" class. It's open to anyone, but typically it is exactly what it should be; young people riding at the beginner up to a fast novice level. If there were also a fast 125cc class with a good turnout, I'd race it every single time I was at the track.
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