DD - Dirtbike Durability

MotoDogg
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MotoDogg
Edited Date/Time 12/25/2020 7:07pm
In the long run, are the newer dirbikes (2016+) will/can be as durable as older bikes (~ 2000)? Or light weight means less material which equals less durability ? More profit, cheaper materials?

My '99 KX 125 seems to be more durable than my 2016 KX250F and I am not talking about engine reliability or general maintanance. Radiators, subframe, plastics, covers, etc. holds up better on the older bike.... I understand that older bikes are not as competitive as the new ones, but my question is about durability.

Which bike would be in better shape after 50 hours of riding with the same rider? A new YZ250 from 2005 or a new YZ250 from 2019?
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crowe660
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crowe660 12/14/2020 5:57am
12/14/2020 5:57am
I think Any dirt bike is only as durable as the dude maintaining it. There may have been better, longer lasting materials used 20 years ago, but it’s so hard to tell. These things are built to be flogged. There’s more moving parts on new bikes, so naturally there’s more wear parts. My 19 Yamaha is a work of art compared to my 96 RM, but it probably should still be torn down after every season.
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MotoDogg
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MotoDogg 12/14/2020 6:02am
12/14/2020 6:02am
timobijnen84 wrote:
Do you know what changed from 2005 to 2019 yz250's.
Well, not much. In this case 1999 YZ250 vs 2019 YZ250?
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MotoDogg
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MotoDogg 12/14/2020 6:11am
12/14/2020 6:11am
crowe660 wrote:
I think Any dirt bike is only as durable as the dude maintaining it. There may have been better, longer lasting materials used 20 years ago...
I think Any dirt bike is only as durable as the dude maintaining it. There may have been better, longer lasting materials used 20 years ago, but it’s so hard to tell. These things are built to be flogged. There’s more moving parts on new bikes, so naturally there’s more wear parts. My 19 Yamaha is a work of art compared to my 96 RM, but it probably should still be torn down after every season.
Thank you, but how do you maitain a subframe or a radiator?
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timobijnen84 12/14/2020 6:14am
12/14/2020 6:14am
I dont think newer bikes last shorter. Some products are not good but that was the case with older bikes. 2018 Honda clutches were bad. Kxf subframes broke. I never had an oldtimer but i think this was the case with old bikes also.
Jonesboys819_828 12/14/2020 7:27am
12/14/2020 7:27am
I have some machines from the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's, and now 20's. The 70's to me seemed to be a learning process for some manufactures, low tech, low quality, but improved from year to year, Frames would break, engine issues, only thing that seemed to hold together was a carb if you could get it dialed. Mid to late 80's stuff seemed to be pretty solid, but there were some issue as with anything. In the 90's, as time went on, more tech with better manufacturing & quality controls in place, seemed to build a much better product than just ten years earlier. It was night and day. My opinion from the 00's to just now are very close to quality in durability. Only major chance/improvement is FI, and the electronics capability to tune a bike's engine. They have gotten lighter, easier to ride faster, but with any mechanical device, you need to maintain it, within the specs of what the engineers designed it. I don't believe the common rider realizes that the fun machine they're ridding on is no different than any other engineered device, and it needs constant care, or else. But all in all, I would say that stuff from yesteryear is the same in durability as the new stuff now, Just my 2 pennies.
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murph783
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murph783 12/14/2020 7:29am
12/14/2020 7:29am
crowe660 wrote:
I think Any dirt bike is only as durable as the dude maintaining it. There may have been better, longer lasting materials used 20 years ago...
I think Any dirt bike is only as durable as the dude maintaining it. There may have been better, longer lasting materials used 20 years ago, but it’s so hard to tell. These things are built to be flogged. There’s more moving parts on new bikes, so naturally there’s more wear parts. My 19 Yamaha is a work of art compared to my 96 RM, but it probably should still be torn down after every season.
MotoDogg wrote:
Thank you, but how do you maitain a subframe or a radiator?
Clean it properly, protect it properly, repair it properly if necessary. Ex braces and guards, simple shit 🤷🏻‍♂️
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usp4u
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usp4u 12/14/2020 7:46am
12/14/2020 7:46am
Not the DD I came here for.

Leaving disappointed.
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hypermoto
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hypermoto 12/14/2020 7:50am
12/14/2020 7:50am
I was thinking of this the other day.

Any old bike I’ve ever had seems to take less damage whenever I crash than any new bike I have/had.
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Skerby
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Skerby 12/14/2020 7:53am
12/14/2020 7:53am
MotoDogg wrote:
Well, not much. In this case 1999 YZ250 vs 2019 YZ250?
Dude, the older two strokes were a little more reliable. The most recent ones have similar bottom ends, but the kobs on the top end specs were screwed to 11 or a little past. Need race gas in new 2 strokes these days.
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SCAM124
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SCAM124 12/14/2020 8:24am
12/14/2020 8:24am
usp4u wrote:
Not the DD I came here for.

Leaving disappointed.
Me too.
I got ya covered though.
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Mm471
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Mm471 12/14/2020 8:57am
12/14/2020 8:57am
The generalization that lighter=weaker can’t be assumed, material can be more efficiently placed making it lighter and stronger, better materials that are lighter and stronger and better manufacturing processes, people said the same thing about the car industry but now cars last clear over 200k, or worse the argument of old cars are safer cause they are solid because people don’t understand forces and crumple zones
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Falcon
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Falcon 12/14/2020 12:27pm
12/14/2020 12:27pm
I think the OP's question can definitely apply to plastic. I don't remember which brand started it, but sometime in the last 20 years, someone touted "thinner plastic" as a weight-saving measure.

I'd be surprised to find that newer bikes in general are less reliable than older ones. As for the difference between an '05 YZ250 and a '21 YZ250, I don't think there can be a statistically relevant difference.
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hypermoto
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hypermoto 12/14/2020 12:28pm
12/14/2020 12:28pm
I don’t think Kawi’s are chinsy. But they lose their fit and finish before most other brands. In my opinion lf course.

I guess what I’m saying is they seem to show their hours more than a honda lets say..
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chuck356
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chuck356 12/14/2020 5:26pm
12/14/2020 5:26pm
I worked in a bike shop for 40+ years, I could never see much difference between the 4 brands as far as quality or failure rates. It was always hit and miss as far as problems go, every brand had a stinker every now and then. A few that come to mind: Honda tin-can cranks in CR's, '89 RM125's would seize every 5 minutes, '87 KX80's had issues with piston ring snagging until we used a different piston, Yamaha YZ490 rattle, ping seize. Yamaha really built a good 2 stroke engine overall.
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Timo_2824
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Timo_2824 12/14/2020 8:38pm
12/14/2020 8:38pm
My 98 YZ was a turd, the subframe would bend if I looked at it wrong. My 04 KX250 stock handlebar bent the first time I laid it over, the rest of it was impressive though. Ran the stock shrouds and graphics for 5 years. My 07 WR250F was bullet proof other than the weak radiators and white lines in the plastic. My 19 YZ450FX seems to be much improved on the plastic and radiators, no issues at all in 2 years, so I'm saying they are actually more durable now.
crusher773
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crusher773 12/14/2020 8:52pm
12/14/2020 8:52pm
KTM way more reliable than any Japanese bike ever thought of being.
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cloud41
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cloud41 12/15/2020 4:40am
12/15/2020 4:40am
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on it, and it is still strong. My ktm’s felt worse at 35 hours (16 450sxf) and 80 hours (13/14 250sx). Nice bikes, but overall, they aren’t as strong as a yamaha or Honda.
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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 12/15/2020 4:47am
12/15/2020 4:47am
cloud41 wrote:
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on...
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on it, and it is still strong. My ktm’s felt worse at 35 hours (16 450sxf) and 80 hours (13/14 250sx). Nice bikes, but overall, they aren’t as strong as a yamaha or Honda.
Best bike on the market is very subjective!
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vansnxtweek489 12/15/2020 5:26am
12/15/2020 5:26am
cloud41 wrote:
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on...
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on it, and it is still strong. My ktm’s felt worse at 35 hours (16 450sxf) and 80 hours (13/14 250sx). Nice bikes, but overall, they aren’t as strong as a yamaha or Honda.
Man that thing is sweet! Currently trying to find one local to me now. Really don't like the blue wheels they have on them now but I can't find anything used...and want a new one :D. They are some solid bikes, for sure.
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hypermoto
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hypermoto 12/15/2020 5:27am
12/15/2020 5:27am
cloud41 wrote:
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on...
The YZ250 is the best bike on the market. Just picked up a second (new) one this weekend. The other bike has 90 hard hours on it, and it is still strong. My ktm’s felt worse at 35 hours (16 450sxf) and 80 hours (13/14 250sx). Nice bikes, but overall, they aren’t as strong as a yamaha or Honda.
I have a 2019 YZ250 and respectfully disagree. My TM shits on it in every category, especially build quality. My KTM’s were better bikes all round also. The Yamaha just had brutal fit and finish, castings are ugly, etc.
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Monk
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Monk 12/15/2020 5:36pm
12/15/2020 5:36pm
I have a 16 KTM 350xcf with over 700 original hours on it, seems pretty durable to me...
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MotoDogg
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MotoDogg 12/16/2020 1:52am
12/16/2020 1:52am
hypermoto wrote:
I was thinking of this the other day. Any old bike I’ve ever had seems to take less damage whenever I crash than any new bike...
I was thinking of this the other day.

Any old bike I’ve ever had seems to take less damage whenever I crash than any new bike I have/had.
I have the same experience, old KX is buleltproof, but the 16 KXF feels like made out of eggshells.
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LKHill
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LKHill 12/16/2020 5:44am
12/16/2020 5:44am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2020 5:45am
MotoDogg wrote:
I have the same experience, old KX is buleltproof, but the 16 KXF feels like made out of eggshells.
They must not be made out of eggshells because my 2018 kx250f had 80 hours (all track time) when I sold it and I never replaced a single part other than tires, chain and front sprocket, suspension service, muffler packing.

Ran and felt like the day it came off the showroom.
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hypermoto
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hypermoto 12/16/2020 6:43am
12/16/2020 6:43am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2020 6:45am
MotoDogg wrote:
I have the same experience, old KX is buleltproof, but the 16 KXF feels like made out of eggshells.
LKHill wrote:
They must not be made out of eggshells because my 2018 kx250f had 80 hours (all track time) when I sold it and I never replaced...
They must not be made out of eggshells because my 2018 kx250f had 80 hours (all track time) when I sold it and I never replaced a single part other than tires, chain and front sprocket, suspension service, muffler packing.

Ran and felt like the day it came off the showroom.
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours. Most bikes will go 80 hours with just a chain, sprockets and tires. 80 hours is nothing, bikes fresh still. I’m not sure why people on this forum talk about anything over 50 hours being a lot. 300+ hours and now you’re doing something
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LKHill
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LKHill 12/16/2020 6:59am
12/16/2020 6:59am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2020 7:01am
hypermoto wrote:
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours...
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours. Most bikes will go 80 hours with just a chain, sprockets and tires. 80 hours is nothing, bikes fresh still. I’m not sure why people on this forum talk about anything over 50 hours being a lot. 300+ hours and now you’re doing something
I agree. My point being eggshells don't last 80 hours on a mototrack ridden hard.
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cloud41
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cloud41 12/17/2020 4:21am
12/17/2020 4:21am
hypermoto wrote:
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours...
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours. Most bikes will go 80 hours with just a chain, sprockets and tires. 80 hours is nothing, bikes fresh still. I’m not sure why people on this forum talk about anything over 50 hours being a lot. 300+ hours and now you’re doing something
LKHill wrote:
I agree. My point being eggshells don't last 80 hours on a mototrack ridden hard.
Yup, the ‘ridden hard on a moto track’ piece gets lost in translation here.
hypermoto
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hypermoto 12/17/2020 4:42am
12/17/2020 4:42am
hypermoto wrote:
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours...
80 hours is not an impressive amount of hours. At all. It’s nothing. There’s guys on here that haven’t touched their KTM motors for 400 hours. Most bikes will go 80 hours with just a chain, sprockets and tires. 80 hours is nothing, bikes fresh still. I’m not sure why people on this forum talk about anything over 50 hours being a lot. 300+ hours and now you’re doing something
LKHill wrote:
I agree. My point being eggshells don't last 80 hours on a mototrack ridden hard.
cloud41 wrote:
Yup, the ‘ridden hard on a moto track’ piece gets lost in translation here.
My friend raced his 18 250sxf with 150 hours on it in pro nationals and the bike never had an issue. That’s 150 “hard” hours with minimal maintenance!

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