Crowdsourcing for Moto track?

Motodave15
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For those that own tracks and such, Would it be viable to launch a crowdsourcing campaign, to get enough money to buy land to build a private motocross facility? Private in the sense of it being owned like a group. Like a Business with multiple share-holders who call the shots.


The only reason i thought of this, would be for us (Motocross people) to stop losing tracks and land to (Housing/ Business park developers etc).. ( The carlsbad thread) made this cross my mind. So basically if say a board of 500 people who sourced funds to purchase the land and build the track and opened it up on a membership basis. Would be significantly harder to beat in court than a single owner etc.

IDK how this all would work, as i dont know enough about laws, but im thinking of giving it a shot.

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zehn
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4/6/2021 2:44pm
I like your creativity but honestly this sounds like an awful idea
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Motodave15
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4/6/2021 2:46pm
zehn wrote:
I like your creativity but honestly this sounds like an awful idea
Elaborate on the awful part? I'm all for discussion's
zehn
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4/6/2021 2:48pm
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
TooTallJason
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4/6/2021 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2021 2:53pm
zehn wrote:
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to...
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
A board just like any publicly traded corporation I would think to answer the day to day question.
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The Shop

Brent
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4/6/2021 2:59pm
the question is how would a track like this get liability insurance?

Insurance companies want a business entity to insure stability, how would crowdsourcing work in that scenario?
Jardo
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4/6/2021 3:00pm
zehn wrote:
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to...
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
Kinda seems like it would work. Mimic a country club membership but instead of golf its motocross.
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Berm
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4/6/2021 3:00pm
It would not be harder to beat in court as you have 500 heads with no clear leadership and no unified voice.

Also, even at 500 people, you'd have to all chip in quite a bit of money I think. Might be worth it if there's nothing in your area but how is there nothing in your area if there are 500 guys willing to ride dirtbikes and get a track going?
Motodave15
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4/6/2021 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2021 3:22pm
zehn wrote:
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to...
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
This is literally loose brainstorming. I have no experience in this kinda of area.

My guess would be

- The investors would have to be riders with the understanding that they get to use the facility for free. (Also investment is capped so everybody pays the same amount), (Thus should negate the i paid more than you and end up in court kinda shit)

- Lest say i did amass 500 people, Then at 2k buy in... That would = 1,000,000... They say to make a million in the moto world, you need to start with 2... So i have to guess a track would cost significantly less than 1 million flat.
(It's the tractors and water tower, that will probably send you over the million mark)

- A re-course of investment, would be based on like a share investment and would pay a quarterly dividend that would be gathered from Gatefees and race's.

- Day to day choices would be made based on classification of riding ability/ Track. so basically let say this does exist
you would have the Pros'/Vets/PeeWee. Each respective silo would vote on day to day operations for said track's.. (Obviously peewee will be ran by adults).... Track layout/ changes/ when to schedule maintenance/ watering schedule.

- Track Maintenance, would be rented or bought tractors and trailers (if funding exceeded amount) Daily Gate Fees, should be able to cover the labor of a dude to repair the tracks after the 3-4 days its open.

soo 32hr's a week, part time at 25$ a hour ( I do not know the going rate for, track builder dudes) = 875$ a week.
With a GateFee of say 60$ (Amount it cost to go to skypark to mtb)... So say we get 50 riders for one day at 60$ a pop that would be 3k.


all of this is spitballing... Maybe i need to create a BusinessPlan and just try it lol
Brad460
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4/6/2021 3:18pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2021 3:18pm
zehn wrote:
I like your creativity but honestly this sounds like an awful idea
Motodave15 wrote:
Elaborate on the awful part? I'm all for discussion's
This is his standard response to everything on Vital...never provides an explanation to his opinion...Then when asked to expand he has a bunch of questions...Easier to ignore.
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Motodave15
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4/6/2021 3:18pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2021 3:19pm
zehn wrote:
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to...
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
A board just like any publicly traded corporation I would think to answer the day to day question.
Thats what i was thinking, like a board of 10 people. over the whole thing, then a board for each track. etc. it would have to be tiered but not under just one owner. also fo the dude who asked. 500 people is alot and a guess..

I also have a ton of tracks still around me, but just thinking for future when more and more land out here in California gets bought out and people move further inland.. might have to think outside the box to have a moto spot.
zehn
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4/6/2021 3:26pm
Brad460 wrote:
This is his standard response to everything on Vital...never provides an explanation to his opinion...Then when asked to expand he has a bunch of questions...Easier to...
This is his standard response to everything on Vital...never provides an explanation to his opinion...Then when asked to expand he has a bunch of questions...Easier to ignore.
You’re right, it’s easier to say that than to type out long response about why a committee of people could never effectively run a moto track or why the crowdsourcing model works well for some things but not this, in the way that OP sees it working
dkurtd
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4/6/2021 5:13pm
There are still a few club tracks that prove a committee can run a MX track. I would think that a crowdsourcing track would operate allot like those club tracks, they seem to find a way to get liability insurance as well. I know one in Kansas (Jeeps Cycle Club) has been around for 85 years.
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soggy
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4/6/2021 5:24pm
My local track is membership based with a BOD. I believe the organization bought the land in the 60’s or 70’s.

Crowd funding it sounds tough. I think you’d be better with fewer investors forming some sort of non profit and then running it as a membership based track to get the money back to your investors.
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Brad460
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4/6/2021 6:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2021 6:56pm
zehn wrote:
You’re right, it’s easier to say that than to type out long response about why a committee of people could never effectively run a moto track...
You’re right, it’s easier to say that than to type out long response about why a committee of people could never effectively run a moto track or why the crowdsourcing model works well for some things but not this, in the way that OP sees it working
It’s always the same in here...someone asks questions about opening/buying a track (something we all want and need) and people immediately shit on them and tell them how awful it is to even think about it..makes no sense..
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Oleary465
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4/7/2021 5:41am
zehn wrote:
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to...
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
A board just like any publicly traded corporation I would think to answer the day to day question.
I belong to a club in ct similar to this it has been around for decades
mister2dt
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4/7/2021 6:27am
Isnt Hangtown run by the Dirt Diggers? Wouldnt that be a prime example of how a club with a board can operate a professional level track?
4/7/2021 6:30am
Brad460 wrote:
It’s always the same in here...someone asks questions about opening/buying a track (something we all want and need) and people immediately shit on them and tell...
It’s always the same in here...someone asks questions about opening/buying a track (something we all want and need) and people immediately shit on them and tell them how awful it is to even think about it..makes no sense..
its society today and really a sad thing.... Saying i always liked is "if you walked on water the haters would say its because you cant swim"
soggy
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4/7/2021 6:32am
mister2dt wrote:
Isnt Hangtown run by the Dirt Diggers? Wouldnt that be a prime example of how a club with a board can operate a professional level track?
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t hangtown have state park status? Dirt diggers probably just runs the maintenance?
mister2dt
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4/7/2021 6:36am
Most bmx tracks around the country are started in a similar fashion. Private funds, raised by a group of enthusiasts, assemble a board and operate the facility. There are hundreds of them and they, for the most part, run just fine. All but maybe 2-3 are non profits. I built one in 2009. Funded it myself, got it up and running, created a parent rider association in 2013 and turned it over to them. Its still operating now. Hosting gold cup races, etc. Boards can be good and boards can be bad. All depends on who is on them. Track i built has had some of both. Its under investigation by the sec of state now, the last board was fairly shady in their handling of business. But, comes with the territory. Just have to be able to stand up to the shady characters and do right by the track, people come and go, there will always be riders.
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mister2dt
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4/7/2021 6:37am
mister2dt wrote:
Isnt Hangtown run by the Dirt Diggers? Wouldnt that be a prime example of how a club with a board can operate a professional level track?
soggy wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t hangtown have state park status? Dirt diggers probably just runs the maintenance?
Not certain, very well could be. They started it and got it to the place it is today. That was all i was getting at
soggy
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4/7/2021 6:44am
mister2dt wrote:
Isnt Hangtown run by the Dirt Diggers? Wouldnt that be a prime example of how a club with a board can operate a professional level track?
soggy wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t hangtown have state park status? Dirt diggers probably just runs the maintenance?
mister2dt wrote:
Not certain, very well could be. They started it and got it to the place it is today. That was all i was getting at
It is a SP and is operated by prairie city Mx, my guess is DD just has a contract to maintain it
CatEyes MX
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4/8/2021 8:15am
I honestly don't know about crowdsourcing. That sounds hard. You could get a bunch of people who are interested together and somehow get funds to buy about 20 acres of land. You could build a small track like Aztec Family Raceway, although it's small, it is very fun.
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Clark_196
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4/8/2021 8:29am
I believe Elizabeth City MX in North Carolina is using a similar structure for ownership. It may be worth reaching out to them to see if I'm correct and how it's working for them.

https://ecmx.com/about-us
TeamGreen
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4/8/2021 8:29am
zehn wrote:
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to...
Maybe I should ask more questions. How do you envision this would work? Each investor owns a proportional interest in the property? How are day to day decisions made, and what recourse do investor/owners have?
A board just like any publicly traded corporation I would think to answer the day to day question.
Or members/partners like in an LLC. I recall there's also an insurance/liability advantage to using the idea of "membership" when the riders are also track owners/members of the ownership.

This is NOT a bad idea. The hardest part is organizing and MANAGING the entity.
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TooTallJason
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4/8/2021 8:31am
CatEyes MX wrote:
I honestly don't know about crowdsourcing. That sounds hard. You could get a bunch of people who are interested together and somehow get funds to buy...
I honestly don't know about crowdsourcing. That sounds hard. You could get a bunch of people who are interested together and somehow get funds to buy about 20 acres of land. You could build a small track like Aztec Family Raceway, although it's small, it is very fun.
Sidebar: I've not been to Aztek, is it worth the drive down to the springs? If I drive that far I generally go north to Two Rivers in Miliken.
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Question
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4/8/2021 10:15am

Bring on the local shops too (and some of their customers). If they want to sell dirt bikes, there must be a local place to ride.

I think it is the way to go for areas without a track within half an hour or so.
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4/8/2021 11:18am
mister2dt wrote:
Isnt Hangtown run by the Dirt Diggers? Wouldnt that be a prime example of how a club with a board can operate a professional level track?
soggy wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t hangtown have state park status? Dirt diggers probably just runs the maintenance?
mister2dt wrote:
Not certain, very well could be. They started it and got it to the place it is today. That was all i was getting at
The Prairie City track was there, first as McGill's and then as a County park, even back when DD were holding Hangtown in Hangtown proper.
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CatEyes MX
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4/12/2021 8:19am
CatEyes MX wrote:
I honestly don't know about crowdsourcing. That sounds hard. You could get a bunch of people who are interested together and somehow get funds to buy...
I honestly don't know about crowdsourcing. That sounds hard. You could get a bunch of people who are interested together and somehow get funds to buy about 20 acres of land. You could build a small track like Aztec Family Raceway, although it's small, it is very fun.
Sidebar: I've not been to Aztek, is it worth the drive down to the springs? If I drive that far I generally go north to Two...
Sidebar: I've not been to Aztek, is it worth the drive down to the springs? If I drive that far I generally go north to Two Rivers in Miliken.
Sorry for the late reply, but yes, it's totally worth it to go to the springs. It's not a track to go to regularly because of how far away it is, but once in a while, it's really fun to go to.
4/12/2021 9:11am
there's one outside San Antonio, though not nearly as organized. Gated place with a rough track. Monthly maintenance days where members must volunteer X amount of time or their membership doesn't get renewed.

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