Could this lead to “the flop”

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4/14/2021 7:37 AM

Mcadoo’s crash was insane, and I actually was not against him restarting with everyone else. This got me thinking though...

Knowing red flag = restart with everyone else, do you think we see an over exaggeration in the future if a rider in the points chase has a minor crash? Similar to a flop in the nba. Just lay there a little longer hoping for the red flag.

This would absolutely be poor sportsmanship, but with a championship on the line in a tight points chase I could see it happening.

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4/14/2021 7:41 AM

deadlo wrote:

Mcadoo’s crash was insane, and I actually was not against him restarting with everyone else. This got me thinking though...

...more

No because the reasoning behind a red flag always varies. A guy could flop and not get a red flag and fuck himself even worse.

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

4/14/2021 7:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2021 7:43 AM

Do guys who flop in the NBA get run over by motor vehicles? I mean, what the red flag is designed to prevent is a pretty decent built-in deterrent

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4/14/2021 7:47 AM

I think it’d be rare but say last main of the season and points are extremely close. Rider crashes pretty decent first lap (so you 100% will not win championship unless you’re old school bubba Stewart). Do you just lay there in pain hoping for red flag?

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4/14/2021 7:48 AM

There have been instances in road racing where guys will lay in an impact zone after a crash to get a red flag thrown so it’s not unheard of.

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4/14/2021 7:52 AM

I've seen enough cases where they should've red flagged the damn race but didn't to know that we may have some dumb riders, but no rider out there is dumb enough to put his fate completely into these inconsistent official's hands.

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4/14/2021 8:00 AM

Be prepared to see the replay and the use of the word adversity 1000 times come Saturday.

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4/14/2021 8:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2021 8:30 AM

The rules from the rulebook: https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021-AMA-Supercross-Rulebook.pdf

This is found in the general offenses and penalties.

pg 57: 20. Causing or attempting to cause a race to be stopped. At
the sole discretion of Race Direction, a rider who is judged
to have intentionally caused a red flag may be excluded
from restarting the event in question.



Short answer: No, because any flop would result in the rider being excluded from the restart.

*edited to update with 2021 rulebook link

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4/14/2021 8:32 AM

I don't think any motocross professional will purposely crash in a way that causes a red flag and hope to restart the race.
1) He would have no guarantee that the race will be restarted.
2) He risks extreme personal injury.
3) He's putting his fate in the hands of AMA officials, instead of taking matters into his own hands and racing forward.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

4/14/2021 8:46 AM

The fact that some people say he did this (or could to this) on purpose to cause a restart grin grin

This world is insane

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4/14/2021 9:06 AM

Cortami79 wrote:

The fact that some people say he did this (or could to this) on purpose to cause a restart grin grin

This world is insane

?

I clearly stated it wasn’t done by mcadoo on purpose, nor has it probably ever been done purposely. I also wasn’t saying a rider would purposefully crash anyway, but if they were to crash and know they lose the championship anyway, I could see someone laying a little longer to see if a red flag gets thrown.

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4/14/2021 9:18 AM

It's amazing how easy it is to find the 2021 AMA Supercross Rulebook and the exact rule that pertains to this, yet still so many want to speculate like there is zero info into it.

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4/14/2021 9:23 AM

Cortami79 wrote:

The fact that some people say he did this (or could to this) on purpose to cause a restart grin grin

This world is insane

deadlo wrote:

?

I clearly stated it wasn’t done by mcadoo on purpose, nor has it probably ever been done purposely. I also wasn’t saying a ...more

But what if their rival goes down later in the race or chokes? That would be a huge gamble, imagine if Osborne had attempted a flop in 2017, it looked like zero chance when he went down, both Savatgy and Smith were up front at the time. The safer bet would almost always be to get up and charge. The possibility of someone successfully drawing a red flag and getting to restart on a spur of the moment decision to flop and not get up seems astronomically low.

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4/14/2021 9:26 AM

feelnjstfine wrote:

It's amazing how easy it is to find the 2021 AMA Supercross Rulebook and the exact rule that pertains to this, yet still so ...more

So rules aren’t broken in sports ever? Back to my original post about the “flop” which is against the rules in the nba, but we have all seen it done many times, and we have all seen it done successfully many times.

Didn’t Jeff Alessi shine a laser in a rider’s eyes... I mean dude it’s not that crazy to imagine someone exaggerating a crash when they 100% know they will be out of the championship if it isn’t red flagged.

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4/14/2021 9:27 AM

The only reason they red flagged the race is because they could not get him down the jump. Don’t see anyone faking a crash to put themselves in that position.

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4/14/2021 9:29 AM

davis224 wrote:

But what if their rival goes down later in the race or chokes? That would be a huge gamble, imagine if Osborne had attempted a ...more

I don’t think it’d be too hard to draw a red flag honestly. I feel like we see it done relatively often (obviously all legit reasons thus far). Charge from last to first is rarely done. But yeah I agree with you. It’s a totally stupid subject, but I have also seen a lot of stupid moves in motorsports lol.

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4/14/2021 9:48 AM

It wont happen in motocross because every pro got yelled at from Dad to get up , dust yourself off and get back going. Its bred into them from an early age to jump up quickly and resume the race.

In flattrack where they know the pack will be around again in about 15-30 seconds depending on track length, it happens because if they go down, they will be lapped before they can get up and get the bike started. In the two rounds completed this year, a few guys went down and were seemingly pinned under their bike until the red flag came out and voila, they got up, dusted off and made the restart.

Every situation is not a slippery slope.

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4/14/2021 9:49 AM

deadlo wrote:

Mcadoo’s crash was insane, and I actually was not against him restarting with everyone else. This got me thinking though...

...more

Magoo back in the day was pretty good at it on the local level. If Danny happened to crash in the 1st turn he'd lay there for a while then peek out to see if they red flagged the moto. If they did he'd jump up and head to the gate ready to race. Pretty smart move I'd say.

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4/14/2021 10:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2021 10:11 AM

Cortami79 wrote:

The fact that some people say he did this (or could to this) on purpose to cause a restart grin grin

This world is insane

Mac didn't do it on purpose... but the ama allowed him to restart... thus putting it into the minds of the other racers and teams... if you reallyyyy want that championship, amd you just got a crap start, why not lay it down in a tight corner, then simply don't move.... you can't claim a head injury or you can't race, so a Charlie horse is perfect....

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

4/14/2021 10:17 AM

Regardless, crashing, being a lap down because of crashing and causing a red flag that came out an entire lap after the crash occurred, to finishing on the podium just doesn't sit with me. At least without earning your lap back.

Was fun to watch though!

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4/14/2021 10:20 AM

Photo
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4/14/2021 10:21 AM

I hope not as I wouldn't want Justin Cooper to get confused again!!
laughing

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4/14/2021 2:50 PM

the whole reason for the restart last night was because they couldn't safely get him off the top of the jump. ram it even said he had a severe charley horse and couldn't move his leg. I've never crashed like that but I've definitely been there with the charley horse. once he got walking and stretched it out a little he was good. I see nothing wrong with him lining back up, and no this wont be the flop, almost every red flag I've seen the rider usually leaves on the medic cart. ram it just couldn't get off the top of the hill safely.

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4/14/2021 2:53 PM

i think getting up and trying to recollect the thoughts of what the fuck just happened and the thoughts of why can't i move my leg will far out weigh the thoughts of "fuck yea im going to milk this and try to get a restart." I mean at least if i were in his head this is the process i would think. If anybody thinks this was on purpose you are ryno status

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4/14/2021 5:03 PM

deadlo wrote:

Mcadoo’s crash was insane, and I actually was not against him restarting with everyone else. This got me thinking though...

...more

I don’t see any issue with him lining back up. It’s not his call for a red flag... look at when roczen crashed in Anaheim and broke his arm, a red flag never came out, it’s completely up to the AMA if they decide to throw a red flag. Mcadoo is one BAMF for getting up and getting on the podium after that one, and if the medical crew says he looks fine to ride and he feels he can, have at it.

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4/14/2021 5:14 PM

I don't think so, in this case, the rides was on the top of the box jump, they could not get him safely down (workers etc) without the red flag. If they were on the flat portion of the track, they would have removed him from the track without the red flag and subsequent restart. Ending up laps down and not getting to restart the race.
Hell of a ride though.

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4/15/2021 2:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/15/2021 2:48 AM

deadlo wrote:

I think it’d be rare but say last main of the season and points are extremely close. Rider crashes pretty decent first lap (so ...more

AC maybe?
Edit: no wasn’t early enough in the race

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4/15/2021 3:16 AM

Only once have I seen this; early 90s round of the Aussie MX titles, a rider crashed and stayed down in the middle of the track until they had no choice but to red flag. The rider then got up and went to rejoin the gate. He wasn’t allowed to.
However this situation was different, they couldn’t get McAdoo safely off the tunnel jump with riders racing through. It appeared they tried but the guys were still coming through hard.
No foul on McAdoo’s part. Gutsy ride by him.

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4/15/2021 3:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/15/2021 3:59 AM

deadlo wrote:

?

I clearly stated it wasn’t done by mcadoo on purpose, nor has it probably ever been done purposely. I also wasn’t saying a ...more

I completely agree with you man, but don’t even try explaining to some of these guys your thought process.
They’re just gonna down vote you and say you’re not core moto enough.
At the end of the day you are 100% correct. This is just another extremely subjective rule that should be made changes. If you cause red flag you can still race, but you have to start last, or something for Christ’s sake to avoid pulling a holeshot and getting third after lying on the ground for minutes on end where most people would just dnf.

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4/15/2021 4:03 AM

Dirty Points wrote:

I've seen enough cases where they should've red flagged the damn race but didn't to know that we may have some dumb riders, ...more

In this case...CM's crash was so bad that we would have seen a DNF or a restart and said yep that was still crazy

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