Could Team USA do a boot camp at Red Bud?

Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to the race?

Or will we break in our bikes at Glen Helen like 2018? *eyeroll
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BigBoreFan58
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BigBoreFan58 7/6/2022 8:52am
7/6/2022 8:52am
I wonder if Red Bud will have the infamous Euro Prep, like it had in 2018?

Seems the track owner sabotaged our chances in 2018.
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Chris_Buehler 7/6/2022 9:11am
7/6/2022 9:11am
BigBoreFan58 wrote:
I wonder if Red Bud will have the infamous Euro Prep, like it had in 2018?

Seems the track owner sabotaged our chances in 2018.
Tomac breaking in the '19 Kawi didn't help either
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swe292
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swe292 7/6/2022 9:19am
7/6/2022 9:19am
BigBoreFan58 wrote:
I wonder if Red Bud will have the infamous Euro Prep, like it had in 2018?

Seems the track owner sabotaged our chances in 2018.
they did what they could with an enormous amount of rain. honestly a miracle how good the track actually was.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 7/6/2022 9:29am
7/6/2022 9:29am
BigBoreFan58 wrote:
I wonder if Red Bud will have the infamous Euro Prep, like it had in 2018?

Seems the track owner sabotaged our chances in 2018.
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally.

Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like a euro track, no way we could’ve won” etc. Nope, we just got smoked fair and square. Track was an even playing field for everybody. Nobody really raced Red Bud in muddy conditions like that recently but the riders in the MXGP series deal with actual different track surfaces and conditions where as 90% of the AMA tracks are ripped, watered and groomed to nearly the same race surface each weekend. There’s not much diversity that the riders really have to deal with dirt/condition wise in the states.
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mxb2
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mxb2 7/6/2022 9:47am
7/6/2022 9:47am
BigBoreFan58 wrote:
I wonder if Red Bud will have the infamous Euro Prep, like it had in 2018?

Seems the track owner sabotaged our chances in 2018.
aeffertz wrote:
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally. Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like...
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally.

Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like a euro track, no way we could’ve won” etc. Nope, we just got smoked fair and square. Track was an even playing field for everybody. Nobody really raced Red Bud in muddy conditions like that recently but the riders in the MXGP series deal with actual different track surfaces and conditions where as 90% of the AMA tracks are ripped, watered and groomed to nearly the same race surface each weekend. There’s not much diversity that the riders really have to deal with dirt/condition wise in the states.
Tomacs 4th isnt being smoked
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Press516
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Press516 7/6/2022 9:49am
7/6/2022 9:49am
BigBoreFan58 wrote:
I wonder if Red Bud will have the infamous Euro Prep, like it had in 2018?

Seems the track owner sabotaged our chances in 2018.
aeffertz wrote:
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally. Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like...
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally.

Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like a euro track, no way we could’ve won” etc. Nope, we just got smoked fair and square. Track was an even playing field for everybody. Nobody really raced Red Bud in muddy conditions like that recently but the riders in the MXGP series deal with actual different track surfaces and conditions where as 90% of the AMA tracks are ripped, watered and groomed to nearly the same race surface each weekend. There’s not much diversity that the riders really have to deal with dirt/condition wise in the states.
It shouldn't be an excuse, but it simply was a "different" surface than what we know. I stood and watched them move loaders of quicksand off the corners... Literally making mud lakes inside and outside of the corners. And this was going on throughout both days... But yes, the track is the track and it's the same for everyone.

I think it being at Red Bud was a disadvantage for the US team as they came with bike setups for a typical Red Bud race and it was not. It turned out to be a sloshy mud race and our guys aren't as good in those conditions. If it's like that again, we won't do as well as if it's a nice hot sunny day.

Just my opinion, and from 30,000 feet, I think the AMA riders are a little better on hard terrain, we're pretty close on medium terrain and the MXGP riders are better in sand and mud.
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ButteryWaffles 7/6/2022 9:51am
7/6/2022 9:51am
Tomac can show up 30 seconds after the gate drops. Noones beating him this year. Sextons a gamble under pressure, but we need him.
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Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 7/6/2022 10:07am
7/6/2022 10:07am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to...
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to the race?

Or will we break in our bikes at Glen Helen like 2018? *eyeroll
You say the track shouldn't be an excuse then run with it? Have the tracks been the reason Team USA hasn't won since 2011?
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DA498
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DA498 7/6/2022 1:52pm
7/6/2022 1:52pm
They should boot camp at Millville
Dirty Points 7/6/2022 2:58pm
7/6/2022 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2022 3:09pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to...
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to the race?

Or will we break in our bikes at Glen Helen like 2018? *eyeroll
Leave Us To wrote:
You say the track shouldn't be an excuse then run with it? Have the tracks been the reason Team USA hasn't won since 2011?
My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:

1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset
2) General rider apathy towards event
3) Diminishing US talent
4) Scheduling deep in only US racing break
5) Lack of US factory team commitment (relates to 4)
6) Unfocused team management
7) Inexperience of US riders in wet/sandy/muddy/diverse conditions
8) (At bottom) Unfamiliar GP-style tracks or GP-style track preparation

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#434
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#434 7/6/2022 3:27pm
7/6/2022 3:27pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to...
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to the race?

Or will we break in our bikes at Glen Helen like 2018? *eyeroll
Leave Us To wrote:
You say the track shouldn't be an excuse then run with it? Have the tracks been the reason Team USA hasn't won since 2011?
Dirty Points wrote:
[b]My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:[/b] 1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset 2) General rider apathy...
My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:

1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset
2) General rider apathy towards event
3) Diminishing US talent
4) Scheduling deep in only US racing break
5) Lack of US factory team commitment (relates to 4)
6) Unfocused team management
7) Inexperience of US riders in wet/sandy/muddy/diverse conditions
8) (At bottom) Unfamiliar GP-style tracks or GP-style track preparation

That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors.
Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two about riding a dirt bike?
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Dirty Points 7/6/2022 3:27pm
7/6/2022 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2022 3:56pm
Leave Us To wrote:
You say the track shouldn't be an excuse then run with it? Have the tracks been the reason Team USA hasn't won since 2011?
Dirty Points wrote:
[b]My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:[/b] 1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset 2) General rider apathy...
My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:

1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset
2) General rider apathy towards event
3) Diminishing US talent
4) Scheduling deep in only US racing break
5) Lack of US factory team commitment (relates to 4)
6) Unfocused team management
7) Inexperience of US riders in wet/sandy/muddy/diverse conditions
8) (At bottom) Unfamiliar GP-style tracks or GP-style track preparation

#434 wrote:
That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors. Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two...
That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors.
Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two about riding a dirt bike?
Read through again, because I think you are missing the point

That list acknowledges straight-up that Europeans are better in most conditions, US riders are overly-specialized and pulled from a diminishing talent pool. And it dismisses the "track prep" excuse as the smallest possible of all factors.

Duh... Of course we know the European teams that are dominating the race can ride. They are hoisting trophies. The list is about the US team.
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lestat
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lestat 7/6/2022 3:38pm
7/6/2022 3:38pm
Dirty Points wrote:
[b]My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:[/b] 1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset 2) General rider apathy...
My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:

1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset
2) General rider apathy towards event
3) Diminishing US talent
4) Scheduling deep in only US racing break
5) Lack of US factory team commitment (relates to 4)
6) Unfocused team management
7) Inexperience of US riders in wet/sandy/muddy/diverse conditions
8) (At bottom) Unfamiliar GP-style tracks or GP-style track preparation

Just for arguments sake … flip #2 and #3 . US no longer being in an almost auto win situation is what leads to the apathy .
Dirty Points 7/6/2022 3:39pm
7/6/2022 3:39pm
Dirty Points wrote:
[b]My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:[/b] 1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset 2) General rider apathy...
My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:

1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset
2) General rider apathy towards event
3) Diminishing US talent
4) Scheduling deep in only US racing break
5) Lack of US factory team commitment (relates to 4)
6) Unfocused team management
7) Inexperience of US riders in wet/sandy/muddy/diverse conditions
8) (At bottom) Unfamiliar GP-style tracks or GP-style track preparation

lestat wrote:
Just for arguments sake … flip #2 and #3 . US no longer being in an almost auto win situation is what leads to the apathy...
Just for arguments sake … flip #2 and #3 . US no longer being in an almost auto win situation is what leads to the apathy .
Either way:
Our best guys often don't care.
Those guys aren't often the best.
wwoberg
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wwoberg 7/6/2022 5:49pm
7/6/2022 5:49pm
I don't think a "boot camp" matters. Either on it or not at that level.

I'm actually surprised the race is on anyways.
Press516
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Press516 7/6/2022 7:10pm
7/6/2022 7:10pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to...
What are the rules with riding the track before the event? Could we set up shop and just grind there for two weeks leading up to the race?

Or will we break in our bikes at Glen Helen like 2018? *eyeroll
Leave Us To wrote:
You say the track shouldn't be an excuse then run with it? Have the tracks been the reason Team USA hasn't won since 2011?
I spoke only of 2018, where I saw what I saw...
#434
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#434 7/7/2022 4:36am
7/7/2022 4:36am
Dirty Points wrote:
[b]My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:[/b] 1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset 2) General rider apathy...
My completely butt-pulled biggest factors in USA fielding non-competitive team, in order of significance:

1) Supercross dominating US rider readiness and skillset
2) General rider apathy towards event
3) Diminishing US talent
4) Scheduling deep in only US racing break
5) Lack of US factory team commitment (relates to 4)
6) Unfocused team management
7) Inexperience of US riders in wet/sandy/muddy/diverse conditions
8) (At bottom) Unfamiliar GP-style tracks or GP-style track preparation

#434 wrote:
That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors. Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two...
That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors.
Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two about riding a dirt bike?
Dirty Points wrote:
Read through again, because I think you are missing the point That list acknowledges straight-up that Europeans are better in most conditions, US riders are overly-specialized...
Read through again, because I think you are missing the point

That list acknowledges straight-up that Europeans are better in most conditions, US riders are overly-specialized and pulled from a diminishing talent pool. And it dismisses the "track prep" excuse as the smallest possible of all factors.

Duh... Of course we know the European teams that are dominating the race can ride. They are hoisting trophies. The list is about the US team.
You never even mention the word Euro in your post once, so where’s the straight up acknowledgment?

Don’t get me wrong, the reasons or factors you mention I agree with for the most part. However, you sound awfully sure that the US would win easily, if there was a little more focus on the outdoors and I don’t know about that.
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#434
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#434 7/7/2022 4:42am
7/7/2022 4:42am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2022 9:15am
Dirty Points wrote:
Either way:
Our best guys often don't care.
Those guys aren't often the best.
They don’t care because of two things:
- they don’t like the idea of possibly getting beat by a guy they’ve never even heard of
- they don’t get paid
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Dirty Points 7/8/2022 8:37am
7/8/2022 8:37am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 8:40am
#434 wrote:
That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors. Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two...
That sounds more a list of excuses than of factors.
Has it ever crossed your mind that the Euros maybe also know a thing or two about riding a dirt bike?
Dirty Points wrote:
Read through again, because I think you are missing the point That list acknowledges straight-up that Europeans are better in most conditions, US riders are overly-specialized...
Read through again, because I think you are missing the point

That list acknowledges straight-up that Europeans are better in most conditions, US riders are overly-specialized and pulled from a diminishing talent pool. And it dismisses the "track prep" excuse as the smallest possible of all factors.

Duh... Of course we know the European teams that are dominating the race can ride. They are hoisting trophies. The list is about the US team.
#434 wrote:
You never even mention the word Euro in your post once, so where’s the straight up acknowledgment? Don’t get me wrong, the reasons or factors you...
You never even mention the word Euro in your post once, so where’s the straight up acknowledgment?

Don’t get me wrong, the reasons or factors you mention I agree with for the most part. However, you sound awfully sure that the US would win easily, if there was a little more focus on the outdoors and I don’t know about that.
Man, that is crazy stretch to pull out of what I wrote.

Did you notice that the thread is specifically about team USA? That might give you some indication why I wasn't talking about Euros.
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captmoto
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captmoto 7/8/2022 9:18am
7/8/2022 9:18am
aeffertz wrote:
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally. Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like...
If by track owner you mean Mother Nature then yeah, totally.

Tired of people making excuses of “track was different than normal” or “it was like a euro track, no way we could’ve won” etc. Nope, we just got smoked fair and square. Track was an even playing field for everybody. Nobody really raced Red Bud in muddy conditions like that recently but the riders in the MXGP series deal with actual different track surfaces and conditions where as 90% of the AMA tracks are ripped, watered and groomed to nearly the same race surface each weekend. There’s not much diversity that the riders really have to deal with dirt/condition wise in the states.
Agree, add to that the Euros had very little to NO experience at Red Bud and still smoked us.
davistld01
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davistld01 7/8/2022 9:40am
7/8/2022 9:40am Edited Date/Time 7/8/2022 11:06am
#434 wrote:
They don’t care because of two things: - they don’t like the idea of possibly getting beat by a guy they’ve never even heard of -...
They don’t care because of two things:
- they don’t like the idea of possibly getting beat by a guy they’ve never even heard of
- they don’t get paid
Damn shame that seems to be accurate...to a large degree. Back when Team USA was a shoo-in for the win, all the OEM teams were 100% onboard to support their riders in this race, and most riders fought for the opportunity to be on the team. Neither one of those scenarios are present these days.
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davis224
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davis224 7/8/2022 7:40pm
7/8/2022 7:40pm
I mentioned this in a couple other threads, buy doing a boot camp wouldn't matter and would probably just lead them in the wrong direction, unless they fly in 100 or so GP riders to carve lines on the track first.

The ruts and bumps will be mostly formed by GP riders with softer settings, taking more flowing lines in the corners vs the 10 or so AMA riders slamming their softened up SX suspension into the ruts, expecting it to look like it's national weekend.
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