Could JGR shutdown in the near future?

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1/23/2019 10:41 AM

I just read Eric Johnson's article on Racer X and it seems to me like it is imminent. Would hate to see it as I am a fan of the Gibbs family. What effect would this have? Would Suzuki bring back a full factory effort?

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1/23/2019 10:55 AM

link?

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1/23/2019 11:01 AM

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1/23/2019 11:03 AM

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1/23/2019 11:06 AM

i dont think they will someone will jump in and save them

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1/23/2019 11:20 AM

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

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1/23/2019 11:26 AM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

To be a part of a Big name in the sport and Get a lot of advertising, on TV on Social media etc, and if they are involved for a longer term it could get better as far as results, there are always ups and downs in racing, and they have swung for the fences in the past, Stewart, Barcia, and even Hill.
I hope they get the Title sponsor they need.
I think they will i know i would want to be part of an awsome organization like that!

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1/23/2019 11:27 AM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

Tarz483 wrote:

To be a part of a Big name in the sport and Get a lot of advertising, on TV on Social media etc, and if they are involved for a longer term it could get better as far as results, there are always ups and downs in racing, and they have swung for the fences in the past, Stewart, Barcia, and even Hill.
I hope they get the Title sponsor they need.
I think they will i know i would want to be part of an awsome organization like that!

I could have pictured them teaming up with Gas Monkey
That would have Been a sweet collaboration.

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1/23/2019 11:28 AM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

Worst production bike , but that does nt mean it the worst factory bike .most successful bike in the last 15 yrs in the pro class imo

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1/23/2019 11:43 AM

My take is this...

There is a culture that has developed in motorsports of, "If we can do X, then we will do X." In other words, because an engineer can make the machine faster, lighter, etc., then we should make the machine faster, lighter, etc. The economic balance of affordability seems to have been disrespected. Again, this culture isn't unique to motocross as I would argue ours is probably one of the least blatant offenders in terms of motorsports.

You have this culture of more, more, more creating increased financial burdens levied on outside sponsors that are only compounded by the fact that the way media is consumed has changed. The competition has greatly increased in the marketing space. Branding yourself onto a race team may no longer be the best way to advertise, even if you want to target its demographic. How many podcasts do we have now? Almost all of those have associated sponsors and while that may seem trivial and is only one example, that money does come from somewhere. The costs do add up.

What is the solution? There either needs to be checks put into place to further limit the costs or a stronger, collective effort needs to be made to offer more for outside sponsors and that probably means working with the promoters to allow the race teams to do more.

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1/23/2019 11:43 AM

They really dont seem to concerned with winning in my opinion. Seems they want to have more of a prescense at the races more then anything.

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1/23/2019 11:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2019 11:46 AM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

So please tell us exactly how they screwed Furniture Row racing? Was it by providing them with championship winning cars and engineering support?
The dude was tired of spending 30 million dollars a year to race. That's not Gibbs fault. It's so easy in this day and age to accuse someone of wronging the other without any proof what so ever. So please tell us exactly how they put FRR out of business, or not.

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1/23/2019 11:50 AM

mb60 wrote:

They really dont seem to concerned with winning in my opinion. Seems they want to have more of a prescense at the races more then anything.

I think they want to win, maybe Chad Reed was questionable and has a Unique Value, but i still think they want to win.

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1/23/2019 11:52 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2019 11:54 AM

731chopper wrote:

My take is this...

There is a culture that has developed in motorsports of, "If we can do X, then we will do X." In other words, because an engineer can make the machine faster, lighter, etc., then we should make the machine faster, lighter, etc. The economic balance of affordability seems to have been disrespected. Again, this culture isn't unique to motocross as I would argue ours is probably one of the least blatant offenders in terms of motorsports.

You have this culture of more, more, more creating increased financial burdens levied on outside sponsors that are only compounded by the fact that the way media is consumed has changed. The competition has greatly increased in the marketing space. Branding yourself onto a race team may no longer be the best way to advertise, even if you want to target its demographic. How many podcasts do we have now? Almost all of those have associated sponsors and while that may seem trivial and is only one example, that money does come from somewhere. The costs do add up.

What is the solution? There either needs to be checks put into place to further limit the costs or a stronger, collective effort needs to be made to offer more for outside sponsors and that probably means working with the promoters to allow the race teams to do more.

Yes Very Very well put especially the top paragraph, i hope this gets sorted at some point, it probably wont be in our life time, but its a very obvious issue, the correction has to start somewhere!

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1/23/2019 11:59 AM

731chopper wrote:

My take is this...

There is a culture that has developed in motorsports of, "If we can do X, then we will do X." In other words, because an engineer can make the machine faster, lighter, etc., then we should make the machine faster, lighter, etc. The economic balance of affordability seems to have been disrespected. Again, this culture isn't unique to motocross as I would argue ours is probably one of the least blatant offenders in terms of motorsports.

You have this culture of more, more, more creating increased financial burdens levied on outside sponsors that are only compounded by the fact that the way media is consumed has changed. The competition has greatly increased in the marketing space. Branding yourself onto a race team may no longer be the best way to advertise, even if you want to target its demographic. How many podcasts do we have now? Almost all of those have associated sponsors and while that may seem trivial and is only one example, that money does come from somewhere. The costs do add up.

What is the solution? There either needs to be checks put into place to further limit the costs or a stronger, collective effort needs to be made to offer more for outside sponsors and that probably means working with the promoters to allow the race teams to do more.

I agree with you on this, but you know people will still spend, spend, spend, trying to gain an advantage. It may start as an affordable bike and morph into a money pit. People spend a ton of money to run the "stock" PW class at Loretta's.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

1/23/2019 12:00 PM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

Tarz483 wrote:

To be a part of a Big name in the sport and Get a lot of advertising, on TV on Social media etc, and if they are involved for a longer term it could get better as far as results, there are always ups and downs in racing, and they have swung for the fences in the past, Stewart, Barcia, and even Hill.
I hope they get the Title sponsor they need.
I think they will i know i would want to be part of an awsome organization like that!

This

They haven't been afraid to take bold risks, which I admire. Unfortunately, many of their recent ones haven't been successful. Justin Bogle's 2018 season was immediately destroyed by injury, Justin Hill was iffy on their 250 and remains so on the 450, Chad Reed has yet to truly shine in a main event, their top (IMO) rider Weston Peick - always a reliable top 5 guy if healthy - is out with massive injuries. Enzo Lopes has yet to show his stuff on the 250; I'm hopeful that AMart can step up when we start up the East Coast series.

Basically, they've drawn decent cards, but no good hands.

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1/23/2019 12:16 PM

I didn't realize that JGR only received help from Suzuki, and that it wasn't a factory program. Still new here...

It seems like Suzuki isn't that big on the dirt anymore, and focusing efforts elsewhere. I heard their outboards are amazing. that being said, the RMArmy seems to be building steam in the SX Futures. Lots of talent there with Suzuki backing...

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1/23/2019 12:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2019 12:24 PM

RTDRacing wrote:

I didn't realize that JGR only received help from Suzuki, and that it wasn't a factory program. Still new here...

It seems like Suzuki isn't that big on the dirt anymore, and focusing efforts elsewhere. I heard their outboards are amazing. that being said, the RMArmy seems to be building steam in the SX Futures. Lots of talent there with Suzuki backing...

For 2018 Suzuki offered to Everts, RC and JGR bikes and parts only and zero financial support.
The first two said "no thanks" and JGR, maybe because they had been trying to become the factory Yamaha team forever, decided to take the deal and the financial burden.

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1/23/2019 12:26 PM

RTDRacing wrote:

I didn't realize that JGR only received help from Suzuki, and that it wasn't a factory program. Still new here...

It seems like Suzuki isn't that big on the dirt anymore, and focusing efforts elsewhere. I heard their outboards are amazing. that being said, the RMArmy seems to be building steam in the SX Futures. Lots of talent there with Suzuki backing...

Suzuki used to be a massive force in the amateurs. They just stopped putting money into the sport for a few years and fell way behind. Fast kids are looking for the best contract deals to take them into the pros and RM is not currently able to offer that.

ex. I think Danger boy had a five or seven-year deal to take him right into the pros and onto TLD KTM.


When you go to a local so cal track you see maybe three RM's at the entire track. A business can't survive on those kinds of sales numbers. When people read about bikes coming in last in every shootout they don't want to spend hard earned money on the product. Weak sales mean Suzuki can't really have a full factory effort.

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1/23/2019 12:36 PM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

h_reed wrote:

So please tell us exactly how they screwed Furniture Row racing? Was it by providing them with championship winning cars and engineering support?
The dude was tired of spending 30 million dollars a year to race. That's not Gibbs fault. It's so easy in this day and age to accuse someone of wronging the other without any proof what so ever. So please tell us exactly how they put FRR out of business, or not.

They tripled the affiliation fee for 2019 knowing that the sponsor agreements in place would not cover it. Then they sign Truex, Bass Pro and all of the other sponsors for themselves.

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1/23/2019 12:37 PM

Kinda off topic, but what exactly happened to Suzuki's effort period? I remember racing MX back in the early 2000's and in the southeast the gates were full of RM's. Back then Suzuki had the best contingency off all the brands and a strong presence at LL's. They also used to have a factory GNCC team and was the premier sponsor of the GNCC series for several years. Did the higher ups just lose interest??

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1/23/2019 12:43 PM

RTDRacing wrote:

I didn't realize that JGR only received help from Suzuki, and that it wasn't a factory program. Still new here...

It seems like Suzuki isn't that big on the dirt anymore, and focusing efforts elsewhere. I heard their outboards are amazing. that being said, the RMArmy seems to be building steam in the SX Futures. Lots of talent there with Suzuki backing...

PlainEnvelopes wrote:

Suzuki used to be a massive force in the amateurs. They just stopped putting money into the sport for a few years and fell way behind. Fast kids are looking for the best contract deals to take them into the pros and RM is not currently able to offer that.

ex. I think Danger boy had a five or seven-year deal to take him right into the pros and onto TLD KTM.


When you go to a local so cal track you see maybe three RM's at the entire track. A business can't survive on those kinds of sales numbers. When people read about bikes coming in last in every shootout they don't want to spend hard earned money on the product. Weak sales mean Suzuki can't really have a full factory effort.

I agree, and I see it overseas too. Didnt Suzuki pull right out of MXGP? I think they are focusing on other parts of their company. Maybe they just aren't interested in motocross anymore. Let the other guys fight it out.

I know years back a lot of NASCAR teams lost 'title' sponsors and would have smaller sponsors that would be on the hood of the car for a few races only. Might be something for JGR to consider...

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1/23/2019 12:43 PM

sam hain wrote:

Kinda off topic, but what exactly happened to Suzuki's effort period? I remember racing MX back in the early 2000's and in the southeast the gates were full of RM's. Back then Suzuki had the best contingency off all the brands and a strong presence at LL's. They also used to have a factory GNCC team and was the premier sponsor of the GNCC series for several years. Did the higher ups just lose interest??

They loaded an early Ryan Dungey contract with all sorts of crazy win / championship bonuses.......and I'll be damned if he didn't make them pay!

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1/23/2019 12:48 PM

sam hain wrote:

Kinda off topic, but what exactly happened to Suzuki's effort period? I remember racing MX back in the early 2000's and in the southeast the gates were full of RM's. Back then Suzuki had the best contingency off all the brands and a strong presence at LL's. They also used to have a factory GNCC team and was the premier sponsor of the GNCC series for several years. Did the higher ups just lose interest??

flopper12 wrote:

They loaded an early Ryan Dungey contract with all sorts of crazy win / championship bonuses.......and I'll be damned if he didn't make them pay!

RC did too.

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1/23/2019 12:49 PM

RTDRacing wrote:

I agree, and I see it overseas too. Didnt Suzuki pull right out of MXGP? I think they are focusing on other parts of their company. Maybe they just aren't interested in motocross anymore. Let the other guys fight it out.

I know years back a lot of NASCAR teams lost 'title' sponsors and would have smaller sponsors that would be on the hood of the car for a few races only. Might be something for JGR to consider...

They pulled out of MXGP, MX2, All Japan Nationals, Off-Road, etc. All they have is JGR and a very small amateur program.

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1/23/2019 12:49 PM

Racerman967 wrote:

They tripled the affiliation fee for 2019 knowing that the sponsor agreements in place would not cover it. Then they sign Truex, Bass Pro and all of the other sponsors for themselves.

Toyota’s decision obviouslywhistling whistling

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1/23/2019 12:50 PM

I think the key will be to take a NASCAR approach and sign a sponsor for 5 races in a particular region. Or cross market with the NASCAR guys. Not just speaking for JGR but other teams as well. TLD did a good job with the change to Adidas at the one race.

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1/23/2019 12:50 PM

Racerman967 wrote:

The issue is they try to run this as a for profit business and that just isn't going to happen when you do not win. They screwed Furniture Row Racing in NASCAR to steal the driver and sponsors. I look at this as Karma. And they don't hire top riders because they don't want to pay for them.

And they are on the worst bike and are 12th and 14th in 450 points and 7th and 15th in 250. Why would a company pay big buck for that?

I don't follow or care much for NASCAR...but the rest of your comment proves you're pretty clueless regarding both JGRMX and team sponsorship in todays climate.

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1/23/2019 12:59 PM

PlainEnvelopes wrote:

Suzuki used to be a massive force in the amateurs. They just stopped putting money into the sport for a few years and fell way behind. Fast kids are looking for the best contract deals to take them into the pros and RM is not currently able to offer that.

ex. I think Danger boy had a five or seven-year deal to take him right into the pros and onto TLD KTM.


When you go to a local so cal track you see maybe three RM's at the entire track. A business can't survive on those kinds of sales numbers. When people read about bikes coming in last in every shootout they don't want to spend hard earned money on the product. Weak sales mean Suzuki can't really have a full factory effort.

RTDRacing wrote:

I agree, and I see it overseas too. Didnt Suzuki pull right out of MXGP? I think they are focusing on other parts of their company. Maybe they just aren't interested in motocross anymore. Let the other guys fight it out.

I know years back a lot of NASCAR teams lost 'title' sponsors and would have smaller sponsors that would be on the hood of the car for a few races only. Might be something for JGR to consider...

GrapeApe wrote:

They pulled out of MXGP, MX2, All Japan Nationals, Off-Road, etc. All they have is JGR and a very small amateur program.

They pulled out of the All Japan Nats also? I guess I missed that one.

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1/23/2019 1:04 PM

731chopper wrote:

My take is this...

There is a culture that has developed in motorsports of, "If we can do X, then we will do X." In other words, because an engineer can make the machine faster, lighter, etc., then we should make the machine faster, lighter, etc. The economic balance of affordability seems to have been disrespected. Again, this culture isn't unique to motocross as I would argue ours is probably one of the least blatant offenders in terms of motorsports.

You have this culture of more, more, more creating increased financial burdens levied on outside sponsors that are only compounded by the fact that the way media is consumed has changed. The competition has greatly increased in the marketing space. Branding yourself onto a race team may no longer be the best way to advertise, even if you want to target its demographic. How many podcasts do we have now? Almost all of those have associated sponsors and while that may seem trivial and is only one example, that money does come from somewhere. The costs do add up.

What is the solution? There either needs to be checks put into place to further limit the costs or a stronger, collective effort needs to be made to offer more for outside sponsors and that probably means working with the promoters to allow the race teams to do more.

The solution is to not only bring in more outside sponsors, but to lower costs overall. And you guessed it; four strokes are at the heart of the problem when it comes to financial matters in my opinion. The amount of time, money, and effort that teams put into winning is sky high. This isn't like the good old days when Honda could have 6 man teams, factory bikes, and box vans. Now, riders have practice mechanics, trainers, their own practice tracks, and million dollar salaries. Teams show up in big rigs with their entourage, and put loads of money into testing, racing and the whole bit. It's impressive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is slowly killing motocross.

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