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3/25/2011
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Karns City, PA
US
An observation....
watching SX I see today's riders rolling in, setting, rotating on the front tire, rolling on the throttle for the exit.
-watch Bar-to-Bar 05: riders attack the corners from the entrance. If changing line to to pass, the square-off still results in a reasonably similar speed into the next obstacle.
*granted the 05 season is likely the most talented season we've seen. But it also includes several 450s.
*yes 450s in 05 are nothing like today
***but there are a few things to notice:
-every rider attacked the corner entry(no one other than RV2 has gone in so hard)
-multiple useable lines/ruts on corner exit
-more "mistakes" from the front runners
-"mistakes" didnt require an ambulance/red flag
-whoop sections that were shorter in height
-different lines through rythym sections that held similar total time to the corner.
I guess what I'm getting at is: when I started racing, i was taught to win in the turns. Watching modern SX and falling asleep, against a race from 2005 shows the changes in the bikes and changes in track design to support the increase in speed has made for the same type of "one-line" racing, season ending injuries, and lack of excitement that has torn apart nascar. And i say that in the midst of the best SX season we've seen in years.
I dont want to make this a tirade about 2strokes. But seriously, the racing was better then, the tracks were better, and ability for the riders to change lines without totally throwing away their chance was real racecraft.
I'll get flamed. That's fine. But I defy you to watch an 05 SX and tell me the aggression in corner entry, mid corner, and corner exit isn't better than what you see today.
Let's not even discuss the old dragons back at the end of whoop section into a table/step-off. If we had that today, that "Cooksey" fellow would likely contact the Southern Poverty Law Center and Jesse Jackson to sue Dirt Wurx on the grounds of "torture". Meanwhile, that was a staple obstacle in the early 2000s.
Not sure what my point is, but, I have a bad feeling "progress" is making this sport go the way of nascar....and that's not good.
watching SX I see today's riders rolling in, setting, rotating on the front tire, rolling on the throttle for the exit.
-watch Bar-to-Bar 05: riders attack the corners from the entrance. If changing line to to pass, the square-off still results in a reasonably similar speed into the next obstacle.
*granted the 05 season is likely the most talented season we've seen. But it also includes several 450s.
*yes 450s in 05 are nothing like today
***but there are a few things to notice:
-every rider attacked the corner entry(no one other than RV2 has gone in so hard)
-multiple useable lines/ruts on corner exit
-more "mistakes" from the front runners
-"mistakes" didnt require an ambulance/red flag
-whoop sections that were shorter in height
-different lines through rythym sections that held similar total time to the corner.
I guess what I'm getting at is: when I started racing, i was taught to win in the turns. Watching modern SX and falling asleep, against a race from 2005 shows the changes in the bikes and changes in track design to support the increase in speed has made for the same type of "one-line" racing, season ending injuries, and lack of excitement that has torn apart nascar. And i say that in the midst of the best SX season we've seen in years.
I dont want to make this a tirade about 2strokes. But seriously, the racing was better then, the tracks were better, and ability for the riders to change lines without totally throwing away their chance was real racecraft.
I'll get flamed. That's fine. But I defy you to watch an 05 SX and tell me the aggression in corner entry, mid corner, and corner exit isn't better than what you see today.
Let's not even discuss the old dragons back at the end of whoop section into a table/step-off. If we had that today, that "Cooksey" fellow would likely contact the Southern Poverty Law Center and Jesse Jackson to sue Dirt Wurx on the grounds of "torture". Meanwhile, that was a staple obstacle in the early 2000s.
Not sure what my point is, but, I have a bad feeling "progress" is making this sport go the way of nascar....and that's not good.
Do you like crappy music? That’s what we get at the races. Not nearly as enticing as a 2t braaap.
The Shop
When nascar used to show the drivers feet at road courses. That was my shit.
In 05 2-strokes were still relevant. People were riding 4 strokes with a 2 stroke mentality and intensity.
Sorry.... when growing up, motocross was as much about the lifestyle as it was about the sport.
Seems like the fun got sucked right out of it. Now its just find a line and settle into a pace.... sounds like fun
I believe bikes have progressed toward dead, firm, stiff, whatever you want to call it since the 1990's.
I run a relatively aggressive fork and I really hammer the bike into the corners (for a local vet guy).
I think a big part of what you're talking about, is due to suspension settings used in supercross. It's pretty well established that you lose front end feel the firmer you make your forks.
The forks these guys run in supercross are a huge gain in the jump sections and in the whoops, and it seems like they are playing on the edge of what works in the corners as a result.
I can't help but think the suspension settings are partly responsible for your observations.
4 stroke = point and shoot
Corner speed was faster on the two strokes without a doubt.
Look at the tracks from the mid 80's to early 2000's compared to today's tracks. The tracks now look like super-motard in comparison. The old tracks were far more technical and treacherous.
Found the VET riders ITT.
Pit Row
I think corner speed and aggression was up in the 2000's though.
Compare lap times to old days and I'm sure today is much faster.
I think some of the gaps maybe haven't been bigger than now... certainly in rhythm sections etc... but the angle of the jumps, steepness of the ramps is not the same. They used to go up more, everything was peakier... and whoops of course there is no comparison.
450s bro.
Also less throttle in corners = less arm pump, lower heart rate, quicker laps.
Post a reply to: Corner Speed in SX. Today v. '03-06