Coopers jump onto Tough Block incident poll

Tarz483
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Edited Date/Time 3/18/2019 2:40pm
To Me The answer is obvious
But it seems like people feel that way on both sides
Of the Argument so lets do a poll
Poll

Coopers Jump onto tough block

Choices
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yz133rider
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3/17/2019 12:00pm
He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.
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10
3/17/2019 12:03pm
Why does it matter it if was an accident? Cut, pass, ride away.

Your bias shows in your wording. Where is the logic around here?
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4
3/17/2019 12:18pm
Why does it matter it if was an accident? Cut, pass, ride away.

Your bias shows in your wording. Where is the logic around here?
I agree. Accidental or not, he cut the track and gained a spot doing so. If I accidentally rear end someone in traffic, I’ll still get a ticket for it.
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Tarz483
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3/17/2019 1:05pm
Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now
3

The Shop

SEE ARE125
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3/17/2019 1:12pm
Why does it matter it if was an accident? Cut, pass, ride away.

Your bias shows in your wording. Where is the logic around here?
I agree. Accidental or not, he cut the track and gained a spot doing so. If I [i]accidentally[/i] rear end someone in traffic, I’ll still get...
I agree. Accidental or not, he cut the track and gained a spot doing so. If I accidentally rear end someone in traffic, I’ll still get a ticket for it.
My view is he didn’t gain a position by cutting the track, but he did gain an advantage(time) by going off track that allowed him to gain a position when he re-entered the track.
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Brad460
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3/17/2019 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 1:23pm
He should be given extra points for pulling that off!

Unbelievable skill and focus to make that pass..
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KHI Guy
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3/17/2019 1:34pm
Brad460 wrote:
He should be given extra points for pulling that off!

Unbelievable skill and focus to make that pass..
I don't know how he got it stopped and turned without going over the berm, let alone keeping it on the track and not wadding Eli up. That was truly and amazing piece of riding by Webb, even thought I still don't like him. Woohoo
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1
#76
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3/17/2019 1:38pm
KHI Guy wrote:
I don't know how he got it stopped and turned without going over the berm, let alone keeping it on the track and not wadding Eli...
I don't know how he got it stopped and turned without going over the berm, let alone keeping it on the track and not wadding Eli up. That was truly and amazing piece of riding by Webb, even thought I still don't like him. Woohoo
This!.
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FuzzyLogic
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3/17/2019 1:40pm
yz133rider wrote:
He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.
This is spot on. Let Eli go, pass him 300 feet later, and remove all questions about there being a penalty.
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3/17/2019 1:44pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now
It depends on whether you are a CW2 or ET3 fan......
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Tarz483
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3/17/2019 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 1:55pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now
It depends on whether you are a CW2 or ET3 fan......
So if Tomac had been the one to Land on the Tough block and still passed Cooper, than the people saying he cut the track and should be penalized would be saying no penalty?

Sounds about right i agree
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Bob_Ryan
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3/17/2019 1:58pm
It's laughable this is even a conversation !!!
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KurtJ99
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3/17/2019 2:00pm
The poll question was biased.
Let me bias it the other way.

Should the AMA follow the rule book and penalize cooper for cutting the track.

Or

Should it be ignored because that’s what the AMA always does.
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5
3/17/2019 2:38pm
Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an unintentional cross-rut "oh shit" moment and an amazing save by Webb to avoid contact and keep it on two wheels. I think both sides understand and agree on this. Does anyone disagree?

Now, for the top half of pollsters to understand the bottom half's perspective, an NCIS visual might be the only way:

-Slide 1 you will see the point at which an out-of-control Cooper exits the track. This slide shows that Webb is clearly behind Eli at the point he exited the track.
- Slide 2 shows you that A: Cooper is outside of the track boundaries or per the rulebook "cuts part of the racecourse", and B: Webb is entering the track ahead of Eli. If you don't like the word ahead I used here, you can use the rulebook's exact verbiage - "gained an advantage without gaining a position"
- Slide 3 shows the position where Webb would have been had he stayed within the boundaries of the racecourse
-Slide 4 is someone else's view from a different angle

The rulebook does not take intent or how badass Webb's save was into consideration...it's black and white:
"If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts a part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position"

The top half will call the bottom half whiners for wanting to enforce what is in their opinion a petty penalty, and the bottom half will call the top half brainless vitards who can't read a rulebook. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Sounds like a moot point though if no one protested.


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Samuel
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3/17/2019 2:51pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now
It depends on whether you are a CW2 or ET3 fan......
I'm actually more a tomac fan. Even though I defended Webb on here during his Yamaha years, I don't actually root for him. But I don't think he should be penalized for that.
bigk218
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3/17/2019 2:57pm
Technically after that pass Tomas’s transponder was momentarily ahead of webs constituting not gaining a position. I guess
zippytech
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3/17/2019 3:16pm
Just put a chain link fence up and that will prevent future incidents to fight about.
2
731chopper
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3/17/2019 3:24pm
Losing control of your motorcycle shouldn’t make you immune to the rules.

Let the down votes flow.
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mxridr
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3/17/2019 3:30pm
Thread has misleading title

It should read

“Coopers jump across track boundary incident poll”
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3/17/2019 3:46pm
yz133rider wrote:
He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.
FuzzyLogic wrote:
This is spot on. Let Eli go, pass him 300 feet later, and remove all questions about there being a penalty.
Because that’s all going through your mind in a 450 Monster Energy Supercross race at race speed - I’m sure Coop was thinking - “well that wasn’t elegant but here I am ahead of Tomac (goes over triple later in the lap) - wait maybe I gained an advantage here lemme pull over and let the guy already a few seconds behind me by.”

No way for something as simple as almost wadding it on a tough block.

It’s in the heat of the battle, people here can armchair all they want - dock Webb a couple spots - for the principleof it of ‘course LOL - and watch that mofo (Webb for those not paying attention) STILL have enough points for the championship and watch Tomac do something EVEN dumber then Webb like slow up - at Vegas in a last ditch effort to screw up a riders season - all because he could not and did not get it done when he needed to.

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Motoxdoc
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3/17/2019 4:13pm
I think the penalty should be swap Tomac's and Webb's positions. I consider the tuff block to be the track boundary and if you land on it, you're still on the track...however, Cooper was on the wrong side of the tuff block and therefore off the track. In this case, I think Cooper should have to re-establish himself on the track before making a pass, rather then making a pass upon his re-entering of the track. Either way, Tomac had nothing for Webb after that incident. Webb dropped him 15 seconds by the end!Huh
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drt410
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3/17/2019 4:20pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 4:23pm
Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an...
Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an unintentional cross-rut "oh shit" moment and an amazing save by Webb to avoid contact and keep it on two wheels. I think both sides understand and agree on this. Does anyone disagree?

Now, for the top half of pollsters to understand the bottom half's perspective, an NCIS visual might be the only way:

-Slide 1 you will see the point at which an out-of-control Cooper exits the track. This slide shows that Webb is clearly behind Eli at the point he exited the track.
- Slide 2 shows you that A: Cooper is outside of the track boundaries or per the rulebook "cuts part of the racecourse", and B: Webb is entering the track ahead of Eli. If you don't like the word ahead I used here, you can use the rulebook's exact verbiage - "gained an advantage without gaining a position"
- Slide 3 shows the position where Webb would have been had he stayed within the boundaries of the racecourse
-Slide 4 is someone else's view from a different angle

The rulebook does not take intent or how badass Webb's save was into consideration...it's black and white:
"If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts a part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position"

The top half will call the bottom half whiners for wanting to enforce what is in their opinion a petty penalty, and the bottom half will call the top half brainless vitards who can't read a rulebook. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Sounds like a moot point though if no one protested.


If ur gonna show that show the part where eli goes back ahead of him at the apex of the corner then Webb passes him...

If were talking “TECHNICALLY” here, he was in front of Eli, then Eli was back ahead, then he completed the pass... No penalty. U guys really are splitting hairs here anyways just to talk about something that doesnt matter at all and Eli doesnt even care.
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yz133rider
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3/17/2019 5:00pm
yz133rider wrote:
He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.
FuzzyLogic wrote:
This is spot on. Let Eli go, pass him 300 feet later, and remove all questions about there being a penalty.
Because that’s all going through your mind in a 450 Monster Energy Supercross race at race speed - I’m sure Coop was thinking - “well that...
Because that’s all going through your mind in a 450 Monster Energy Supercross race at race speed - I’m sure Coop was thinking - “well that wasn’t elegant but here I am ahead of Tomac (goes over triple later in the lap) - wait maybe I gained an advantage here lemme pull over and let the guy already a few seconds behind me by.”

No way for something as simple as almost wadding it on a tough block.

It’s in the heat of the battle, people here can armchair all they want - dock Webb a couple spots - for the principleof it of ‘course LOL - and watch that mofo (Webb for those not paying attention) STILL have enough points for the championship and watch Tomac do something EVEN dumber then Webb like slow up - at Vegas in a last ditch effort to screw up a riders season - all because he could not and did not get it done when he needed to.

Ive seen it countless times before where someone goes off track checks up concedes a spot or two and then turns it up again purely to avoid penalty its been obvious many times.
4
akillerwombat
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3/17/2019 5:05pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 5:13pm
drt410 wrote:
If ur gonna show that show the part where eli goes back ahead of him at the apex of the corner then Webb passes him... If...
If ur gonna show that show the part where eli goes back ahead of him at the apex of the corner then Webb passes him...

If were talking “TECHNICALLY” here, he was in front of Eli, then Eli was back ahead, then he completed the pass... No penalty. U guys really are splitting hairs here anyways just to talk about something that doesnt matter at all and Eli doesnt even care.


Edited: He is technically a head of him at the apex as well, but this line was easier to make obvious.
2
g0rd057
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3/17/2019 5:11pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 5:13pm
ET3 should give 5 of his points to Webb for keeping control on landing and not center punching ET3 and ending his season.
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Brad460
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3/17/2019 5:22pm
Looking back after Cooper wins this championship- I think this pass is the one that breaks Tomac...
Kawi15
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3/17/2019 5:22pm
My, apparently some people are very worked up about this. To me It seems ridiculous that there have been 3 threads about it and apparently it is not going to just go away. I am thinking it is a racing incident, leave it at that. Or else we can just throw the microscope on every little area one rider can gain advantage over another.. like starting positions etc.
1
devindavisphoto
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3/17/2019 5:22pm
Webb was passing Tomac regardless of that mistake in my opinion. If Webb got sketchy and cut 10 bales and made the pass, of course a penalization would be required.
str8line
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3/17/2019 5:25pm
Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an...
Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an unintentional cross-rut "oh shit" moment and an amazing save by Webb to avoid contact and keep it on two wheels. I think both sides understand and agree on this. Does anyone disagree?

Now, for the top half of pollsters to understand the bottom half's perspective, an NCIS visual might be the only way:

-Slide 1 you will see the point at which an out-of-control Cooper exits the track. This slide shows that Webb is clearly behind Eli at the point he exited the track.
- Slide 2 shows you that A: Cooper is outside of the track boundaries or per the rulebook "cuts part of the racecourse", and B: Webb is entering the track ahead of Eli. If you don't like the word ahead I used here, you can use the rulebook's exact verbiage - "gained an advantage without gaining a position"
- Slide 3 shows the position where Webb would have been had he stayed within the boundaries of the racecourse
-Slide 4 is someone else's view from a different angle

The rulebook does not take intent or how badass Webb's save was into consideration...it's black and white:
"If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts a part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position"

The top half will call the bottom half whiners for wanting to enforce what is in their opinion a petty penalty, and the bottom half will call the top half brainless vitards who can't read a rulebook. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Sounds like a moot point though if no one protested.



Well done!
2

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