Coopers jump onto Tough Block incident poll

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3/17/2019 11:57 AM

To Me The answer is obvious
But it seems like people feel that way on both sides
Of the Argument so lets do a poll

Coopers Jump onto tough block

View Results

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3/17/2019 12:00 PM

He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.

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3/17/2019 12:03 PM

Why does it matter it if was an accident? Cut, pass, ride away.

Your bias shows in your wording. Where is the logic around here?

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3/17/2019 12:18 PM

Track and Trail wrote:

Why does it matter it if was an accident? Cut, pass, ride away.

Your bias shows in your wording. Where is the logic around here?

I agree. Accidental or not, he cut the track and gained a spot doing so. If I accidentally rear end someone in traffic, I’ll still get a ticket for it.

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3/17/2019 1:05 PM

Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now

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3/17/2019 1:12 PM

Track and Trail wrote:

Why does it matter it if was an accident? Cut, pass, ride away.

Your bias shows in your wording. Where is the logic around here?

thatswhathappens wrote:

I agree. Accidental or not, he cut the track and gained a spot doing so. If I accidentally rear end someone in traffic, I’ll still get a ticket for it.

My view is he didn’t gain a position by cutting the track, but he did gain an advantage(time) by going off track that allowed him to gain a position when he re-entered the track.

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3/17/2019 1:23 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/17/2019 1:23 PM

He should be given extra points for pulling that off!

Unbelievable skill and focus to make that pass..

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3/17/2019 1:34 PM

Brad460 wrote:

He should be given extra points for pulling that off!

Unbelievable skill and focus to make that pass..

I don't know how he got it stopped and turned without going over the berm, let alone keeping it on the track and not wadding Eli up. That was truly and amazing piece of riding by Webb, even thought I still don't like him.

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3/17/2019 1:37 PM

Please stop it

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3/17/2019 1:38 PM

KHI Guy wrote:

I don't know how he got it stopped and turned without going over the berm, let alone keeping it on the track and not wadding Eli up. That was truly and amazing piece of riding by Webb, even thought I still don't like him.

This!.

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2020 Yamaha YZ 450
2014 KTM 250 SX / Full Ohlins

imoto34 wrote:
Look at all that torque. The kid on the lawnmower may have laughed so hard he shat his pants.

3/17/2019 1:40 PM

yz133rider wrote:

He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.

This is spot on. Let Eli go, pass him 300 feet later, and remove all questions about there being a penalty.

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Here's to feeling good all the time

3/17/2019 1:44 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now

It depends on whether you are a CW2 or ET3 fan......

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3/17/2019 1:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/17/2019 1:55 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now

uneasy_rider wrote:

It depends on whether you are a CW2 or ET3 fan......

So if Tomac had been the one to Land on the Tough block and still passed Cooper, than the people saying he cut the track and should be penalized would be saying no penalty?

Sounds about right i agree

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3/17/2019 1:58 PM

It's laughable this is even a conversation !!!

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3/17/2019 2:00 PM

The poll question was biased.
Let me bias it the other way.

Should the AMA follow the rule book and penalize cooper for cutting the track.

Or

Should it be ignored because that’s what the AMA always does.

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3/17/2019 2:38 PM

Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an unintentional cross-rut "oh shit" moment and an amazing save by Webb to avoid contact and keep it on two wheels. I think both sides understand and agree on this. Does anyone disagree?

Now, for the top half of pollsters to understand the bottom half's perspective, an NCIS visual might be the only way:

-Slide 1 you will see the point at which an out-of-control Cooper exits the track. This slide shows that Webb is clearly behind Eli at the point he exited the track.
- Slide 2 shows you that A: Cooper is outside of the track boundaries or per the rulebook "cuts part of the racecourse", and B: Webb is entering the track ahead of Eli. If you don't like the word ahead I used here, you can use the rulebook's exact verbiage - "gained an advantage without gaining a position"
- Slide 3 shows the position where Webb would have been had he stayed within the boundaries of the racecourse
-Slide 4 is someone else's view from a different angle

The rulebook does not take intent or how badass Webb's save was into consideration...it's black and white:
"If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts a part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position"

The top half will call the bottom half whiners for wanting to enforce what is in their opinion a petty penalty, and the bottom half will call the top half brainless vitards who can't read a rulebook. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Sounds like a moot point though if no one protested.


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3/17/2019 2:51 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

Pretty even , im surprised
63 to 63 right now

uneasy_rider wrote:

It depends on whether you are a CW2 or ET3 fan......

I'm actually more a tomac fan. Even though I defended Webb on here during his Yamaha years, I don't actually root for him. But I don't think he should be penalized for that.

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3/17/2019 2:57 PM

Technically after that pass Tomas’s transponder was momentarily ahead of webs constituting not gaining a position. I guess

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3/17/2019 3:16 PM

Just put a chain link fence up and that will prevent future incidents to fight about.

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3/17/2019 3:24 PM

Losing control of your motorcycle shouldn’t make you immune to the rules.

Let the down votes flow.

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3/17/2019 3:30 PM

Thread has misleading title

It should read

“Coopers jump across track boundary incident poll”

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3/17/2019 3:46 PM

yz133rider wrote:

He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.

FuzzyLogic wrote:

This is spot on. Let Eli go, pass him 300 feet later, and remove all questions about there being a penalty.

Because that’s all going through your mind in a 450 Monster Energy Supercross race at race speed - I’m sure Coop was thinking - “well that wasn’t elegant but here I am ahead of Tomac (goes over triple later in the lap) - wait maybe I gained an advantage here lemme pull over and let the guy already a few seconds behind me by.”

No way for something as simple as almost wadding it on a tough block.

It’s in the heat of the battle, people here can armchair all they want - dock Webb a couple spots - for the principleof it of ‘course LOL - and watch that mofo (Webb for those not paying attention) STILL have enough points for the championship and watch Tomac do something EVEN dumber then Webb like slow up - at Vegas in a last ditch effort to screw up a riders season - all because he could not and did not get it done when he needed to.

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3/17/2019 4:13 PM

I think the penalty should be swap Tomac's and Webb's positions. I consider the tuff block to be the track boundary and if you land on it, you're still on the track...however, Cooper was on the wrong side of the tuff block and therefore off the track. In this case, I think Cooper should have to re-establish himself on the track before making a pass, rather then making a pass upon his re-entering of the track. Either way, Tomac had nothing for Webb after that incident. Webb dropped him 15 seconds by the end!

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3/17/2019 4:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/17/2019 4:23 PM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Sometimes it's best to try to understand the other side. For the top half of the poll, I think the whole universe agrees this was an unintentional cross-rut "oh shit" moment and an amazing save by Webb to avoid contact and keep it on two wheels. I think both sides understand and agree on this. Does anyone disagree?

Now, for the top half of pollsters to understand the bottom half's perspective, an NCIS visual might be the only way:

-Slide 1 you will see the point at which an out-of-control Cooper exits the track. This slide shows that Webb is clearly behind Eli at the point he exited the track.
- Slide 2 shows you that A: Cooper is outside of the track boundaries or per the rulebook "cuts part of the racecourse", and B: Webb is entering the track ahead of Eli. If you don't like the word ahead I used here, you can use the rulebook's exact verbiage - "gained an advantage without gaining a position"
- Slide 3 shows the position where Webb would have been had he stayed within the boundaries of the racecourse
-Slide 4 is someone else's view from a different angle

The rulebook does not take intent or how badass Webb's save was into consideration...it's black and white:
"If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts a part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position"

The top half will call the bottom half whiners for wanting to enforce what is in their opinion a petty penalty, and the bottom half will call the top half brainless vitards who can't read a rulebook. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Sounds like a moot point though if no one protested.


If ur gonna show that show the part where eli goes back ahead of him at the apex of the corner then Webb passes him...

If were talking “TECHNICALLY” here, he was in front of Eli, then Eli was back ahead, then he completed the pass... No penalty. U guys really are splitting hairs here anyways just to talk about something that doesnt matter at all and Eli doesnt even care.

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3/17/2019 5:00 PM

yz133rider wrote:

He should have conceded the position and made a clean pass later on.

FuzzyLogic wrote:

This is spot on. Let Eli go, pass him 300 feet later, and remove all questions about there being a penalty.

Johnny Lock wrote:

Because that’s all going through your mind in a 450 Monster Energy Supercross race at race speed - I’m sure Coop was thinking - “well that wasn’t elegant but here I am ahead of Tomac (goes over triple later in the lap) - wait maybe I gained an advantage here lemme pull over and let the guy already a few seconds behind me by.”

No way for something as simple as almost wadding it on a tough block.

It’s in the heat of the battle, people here can armchair all they want - dock Webb a couple spots - for the principleof it of ‘course LOL - and watch that mofo (Webb for those not paying attention) STILL have enough points for the championship and watch Tomac do something EVEN dumber then Webb like slow up - at Vegas in a last ditch effort to screw up a riders season - all because he could not and did not get it done when he needed to.

Ive seen it countless times before where someone goes off track checks up concedes a spot or two and then turns it up again purely to avoid penalty its been obvious many times.

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3/17/2019 5:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/17/2019 5:13 PM

drt410 wrote:

If ur gonna show that show the part where eli goes back ahead of him at the apex of the corner then Webb passes him...

If were talking “TECHNICALLY” here, he was in front of Eli, then Eli was back ahead, then he completed the pass... No penalty. U guys really are splitting hairs here anyways just to talk about something that doesnt matter at all and Eli doesnt even care.



Edited: He is technically a head of him at the apex as well, but this line was easier to make obvious.
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3/17/2019 5:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/17/2019 5:13 PM

ET3 should give 5 of his points to Webb for keeping control on landing and not center punching ET3 and ending his season.

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3/17/2019 5:22 PM

Looking back after Cooper wins this championship- I think this pass is the one that breaks Tomac...

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3/17/2019 5:22 PM

My, apparently some people are very worked up about this. To me It seems ridiculous that there have been 3 threads about it and apparently it is not going to just go away. I am thinking it is a racing incident, leave it at that. Or else we can just throw the microscope on every little area one rider can gain advantage over another.. like starting positions etc.

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3/17/2019 5:22 PM

Webb was passing Tomac regardless of that mistake in my opinion. If Webb got sketchy and cut 10 bales and made the pass, of course a penalization would be required.

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