Coop the only one who gives a F### about the title

visser62
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4/25/2021 11:51am
The only guys I can think of who will give everything for the win like Coop are Herlings, Prado, and Gajser.
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4/25/2021 12:12pm
MickyT wrote:
I would give anything to see Webb try a hard block pass on Kenny and Kenny hit him back hard and even knock him off the...
I would give anything to see Webb try a hard block pass on Kenny and Kenny hit him back hard and even knock him off the track!
Until he does that Webb will always have the confidence to overtake him at the end of races cause he knows Kenny never fights back!
Imagine how Webb feels if he is anywhere near Ken at the end of a race! He KNOWS he is going to pass him and win! There is no fear of an aggressive pass cause Ken won’t fight! Doesn’t Ken have a team telling him this stuff or does he just have “YES” men telling him what he wants to hear!
As much as I want to see Kenny win an outdoor title I almost think it’s time to just go SX only!
And let Kenny devote all his time to better mentally, racecraft wise and with aggressive passing!
He has lost so many races cause he won’t put an aggressive pass on!!!
It’s hard being a KR fan atm!
Why are you yelling?
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500 Mike
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4/25/2021 12:19pm
That's a pretty dumb theory, in my opinion. Two races ago people were saying Kenny was coming back and that Webb should be worried. Now he's...
That's a pretty dumb theory, in my opinion. Two races ago people were saying Kenny was coming back and that Webb should be worried. Now he's just mailing it in because it's too dangerous? Webb is simply beating him.
He has no fight in him. He lets Webb by. Webb is not that good. If Tomac, KR etc cared, then we would see some good battles. As soon as Webb gets near KR he quits. And I am a KR fan.
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cable
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4/25/2021 1:18pm
i agree. seems like when a ktm is in the title hunt, everyone lays up, like rogers been talking to them. go back and watch how hard tomac had to race everyone for his title. Rogers a genius for stacking the gate. no disprespect to cooper, hes a beast.
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The Shop

4/25/2021 2:32pm
500 Mike wrote:
He has no fight in him. He lets Webb by. Webb is not that good. If Tomac, KR etc cared, then we would see some good...
He has no fight in him. He lets Webb by. Webb is not that good. If Tomac, KR etc cared, then we would see some good battles. As soon as Webb gets near KR he quits. And I am a KR fan.
Webb is not that good? That's funny
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bowl
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4/25/2021 2:58pm
Tumic wrote:
Yes, Webb is fast in tight corners but still looks like a B rider when you throw a couple of good sized whoops in front of...
Yes, Webb is fast in tight corners but still looks like a B rider when you throw a couple of good sized whoops in front of him.

When it comes to natural ability he just lacks it and makes up for some of it with training and a heart of a lion. But thats not natural talent..
Have u not noticed in second half of races he is as fast if not faster then most in whoops.
He fast lap times come in second half of race.
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Conkey
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4/25/2021 4:21pm
Did Coop train this hard when he was waxing people on 250s? I’d say the guy is pretty talented no matter where he stacks up vs Ken & Eli naturally.
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stone881
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4/25/2021 6:28pm
mikie44 wrote:
" least talented out of the three" - Watch Coop's corners and corner exit. It's unreal. He can run a tighter line by several feet and...
" least talented out of the three" - Watch Coop's corners and corner exit. It's unreal. He can run a tighter line by several feet and still come out with exit speed to hit obstacles.
I know this will have the anti KTM fans hating, but it could just be that the frame flex allows him to turn under everyone else.

I used to be on the aluminium frame bandwagon, but I really do believe they are a disadvantage in SX.
IWreckALot
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4/25/2021 6:56pm
My $.02 is that Webb seems to have less natural ability on the bike than Roczen and tomac seemingly do but Webb has an abnormal ability to push himself in the areas he struggles. He’s not afraid to try a different line and completely screw it up. He tries different things till he finds something that works for him. He’s done it a ton this season.

Tomac has resorted to not pushing when he doesn’t feel the track which seems like a regular occurrence and Roczen makes a mistake then tip toes around the obstacle.

He’s also probably the most demoralizing rider I’ve ever seen. If I were Kenny trying to beat Webb at this point I’d be throwing my hands in the air saying “ wtf do I have to do to beat this guy”.
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LoudLove
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4/25/2021 7:11pm
Cooper is the best at “shrinking” a track, i.e. minimum distance per lap. The guy has a knack for riding the tightest line, which pays huge dividends over 20 minutes.

In golf, it’s “drive for show, putt for dough”. The SX version: “whoops for show, corner for dough”. And Mr. Webb has taken it to heart.
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Dutch348
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4/25/2021 7:18pm
Looks to me like it comes down to training. Kenny dominates the beginning of races, then messes up. Cooper keeps the same pace the whole race and turns it up when he needs to. Aldon has his program so dialed at this point, they know exactly what they need to win.
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4/25/2021 9:02pm
Tumic wrote:
Yes, Webb is fast in tight corners but still looks like a B rider when you throw a couple of good sized whoops in front of...
Yes, Webb is fast in tight corners but still looks like a B rider when you throw a couple of good sized whoops in front of him.

When it comes to natural ability he just lacks it and makes up for some of it with training and a heart of a lion. But thats not natural talent..
bowl wrote:
Have u not noticed in second half of races he is as fast if not faster then most in whoops. He fast lap times come in...
Have u not noticed in second half of races he is as fast if not faster then most in whoops.
He fast lap times come in second half of race.
Many people miss why he’s faster in the second half of he race. He’s fit, he has heart, he corners quick and he’s smart as f$ck about line choice.
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ctbale
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4/25/2021 9:17pm
Tomac has this "what ever happens happens" mentality this year. You can see it in his interviews. Even when he has a tip over when he is towards the front he just looks so calm in his after race interview.. Like in the back of his head he is thinking I have this year, and next and I have made my mark and what ever happens happens.....
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Up Wind
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4/25/2021 9:28pm
Tumic wrote:
Yes, Webb is fast in tight corners but still looks like a B rider when you throw a couple of good sized whoops in front of...
Yes, Webb is fast in tight corners but still looks like a B rider when you throw a couple of good sized whoops in front of him.

When it comes to natural ability he just lacks it and makes up for some of it with training and a heart of a lion. But thats not natural talent..
I remember when he was a B rider. He smoked everyone on a stone age carberated Yamaha. He is Mr Natural. The guy is a winner. He always will be.
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Lippy111
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4/25/2021 11:10pm
bodean123 wrote:
Haha the least talented, yet the only one on track to have multiple 450SX titles.
I know what OP is trying to say, and I don't think this analogy works here.

That would mean Jeff Stanton was more talented than James Stewart! I don't think so.
VRR7
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4/26/2021 2:24am
cz2crf2wc wrote:
20 wins and 2 championships in 3 years, Ya he's the least talented ?
It is talent versus work ethic discussion - Work ethic wins - Obviously

KR is a 10 minute wonder - It is such a pattern KTM pits give CW the board to let him know when KR is too tired to go fast or concentrate. 10mins - It is how 800m champs win. They run at a pace keeper pace for 1 lap to keep fresh then finish strong and most cases the guy that bolted gets passed by most runners. It is called tactic or race craft in moto. IMO KR is talented and faster than CW he is just not doing the work CW is doing as he shows to be not as fit and strong for the endurance of a full race. Same every race even 3 years ago , granted KR had health issues , but even now the pattern in the same. Health issue are now fitness issues.
As the top coaches say they will take work ethic over talent any day. CW is living proof.
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js451
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4/26/2021 3:28am
Least talented.... [img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/916544ac793a85f91c370c4e63254724/tenor.gif[/img]
Least talented....

I miss scrubs 🥲
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fanger
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4/26/2021 3:32am
Dude is so talented that he goes faster than the other two while looking slower.
4/26/2021 5:52am
fanger wrote:
Dude is so talented that he goes faster than the other two while looking slower.
I think this is correct. Coop starts slow, and never looks fast, but he is. At Salt Lake, he started, what, 5th, 6th. Got to 3rd fairly quickly. Roczen fell, and he closed up 3.5 seconds on Marv fairly quickly, while Roczen struggled to gain back any positions. Coop is fast. He just doesn't look fast, and he doesn't start all that fast. He really SHOULD work more on whoops. That's his only Kryptonite.
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resetjet
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4/26/2021 6:00am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2021 6:01am
Any of you that have a family and kids know what is ailing kenny and tomac. Its the death blow to the supercross racer. We have seen it over and over. I expect tomac and roczen to retire in the next year or two and they should.
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Mr. Afterbar
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4/26/2021 6:17am
duckdog77 wrote:
This is a hard point to argue.
Not really. As of right now, he has one 450 championship. Two is likely, but you never know.
Dflowe
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4/26/2021 6:53am
I'll never forget the 2016 MXGP in Charlotte when Copper was still on a 250. In the second moto he started in around 20th place and came through the pack passing Austin Forkner and Jeffrey Herlings for the overall win. In my opinion, it wasn't only a win, but it showed the true determination that Cooper has and his unwillingness to lose.

Everybody is seeing that determination now, and I don't know how anyone can honestly say that he's not fast. If you don't like him, just say you don't like him and move on. Fact is, he's the best in Supercross right now and it shows.

Personally, I think he's a class act and he's going to be a great multi-time champion in our sport.
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TunaBro
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4/26/2021 3:25pm
Kenny is staying in his comfort zone and not budging from it. I don't blame him given his big crashes and his new passion, his family.
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ShawdowGlen
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4/26/2021 4:25pm
cable wrote:
i agree. seems like when a ktm is in the title hunt, everyone lays up, like rogers been talking to them. go back and watch how...
i agree. seems like when a ktm is in the title hunt, everyone lays up, like rogers been talking to them. go back and watch how hard tomac had to race everyone for his title. Rogers a genius for stacking the gate. no disprespect to cooper, hes a beast.
Yeah....all the other brands/teams/sponsors who have spent millions and millions of dollars in the title chase and the riders that have worked so hard to get to a point where the prize is in reach....they're all just going to acquiesce to Rogers will.

Holy shit....that's priceless.
1
visser62
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4/26/2021 5:49pm
I'll be curious to see how Coop weathers the AC-Sexton-Ferrandis storm these next few years. Right now those guys are way too inconsistent to pose any threat to him, but I believe they each have next-level technique that we haven't seen in some time.
1
nealb129
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4/26/2021 6:01pm
Always amazed at how rider x is talented but rider y is a work horse and yet no one knows what goes on with each riders training...

Find me someone that has his corner speed and ability to hold a tighter line. He has as much talent as anyone on the line. And this is coming from someone who thought he wouldn't sniff the top 5 when he moved to the 450 class.
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zehn
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4/26/2021 6:27pm
Hope he learns how to care about the Outdoor championship as much as he does the Supercross championship
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visser62
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4/26/2021 7:05pm
nealb129 wrote:
Always amazed at how rider x is talented but rider y is a work horse and yet no one knows what goes on with each riders...
Always amazed at how rider x is talented but rider y is a work horse and yet no one knows what goes on with each riders training...

Find me someone that has his corner speed and ability to hold a tighter line. He has as much talent as anyone on the line. And this is coming from someone who thought he wouldn't sniff the top 5 when he moved to the 450 class.
Yeah, I think the real argument is just flashy talent vs. unflashy talent. If Roczen and Musquin can smoothly glide through a rutted outdoor track but Tomac and Herlings can just manhandle the bike past them, are the latter two really less talented?

It's almost like comparing talents between a dual-threat quarterback and a pure pocket passer.
kawasa84
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4/27/2021 1:06am
MickyT wrote:
He doesn’t have the natural talent of KR and ET but he has a bigger heart and better race craft! And I’m a big Kenny fan...
He doesn’t have the natural talent of KR and ET but he has a bigger heart and better race craft!
And I’m a big Kenny fan!
As a fan it’s devastating watchKenny lose this 21 title!
If he dealt with Webb at the start of the season he would win the title!
But it has turned into a huge mental disadvantage for Kenny!
Imagine everyone calling you mentally weak and your competitor an absolute animal mentally!
I feel for Kenny!
This is to "bodean 123", first, Webb doesn't have 2 450 titles yet. Probably just a formality as this Saturday at SLC he'll probably close that. However, as of you writing that, He Does Not.

Webb certainly has more talent than us keyboard racers/weekend riders, but I won't forget how he looked on that blue 450 his first 2 450 seasons. There wasn't much "pro" talent showing. I attribute most of his 450 success on the fact he trains at the Baker's Factory. Period. Beginning with Carmichael, then Stewart (including his perfect season in 08'), then Dungey, Villopoto, Anderson, and Webb and even KR when he won outdoors championship. Every single season, whether SX or the Nationals, including OZ's outdoor championship in 2020, Baker has won a championship. Every season, beginning with the GOAT. What can you say. This is a Dynasty that has been built by him. It's just now, Roger and KTM and its sibling brands have paid him well, and have sewn up his talent to their riders exclusively.
I'm not sure which is the first year the GOAT won his first title with Baker as his trainer, but Baker has a championship for at least 15 consecutive years I believe, and with this 450 title coming, at least 16 consecutive years.
As far as Webb having the same talent as KR, Tomac, or even Dungey, Villopoto, and especially JS7. No way.
I compare Webb's talent to what it takes to make a Brick Oven Pizza. The flavor comes from the chef making the pizza.
KROC is the talented chef making the pizza, Webb is the brick used to cook the pizza.
peltier626
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4/27/2021 6:30am
Cooper Webb has pride and the underdog mentality. A lethal combination.

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