Confused about 2-stroke vs 4-stroke

Markee
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11/3/2017 10:48am
mnoble0902 wrote:
Hey all! Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now...
Hey all!

Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now confused. There's no denying the 4-stroke is the standard now. Doing some reading, it seems like the 2-stroke has more overall horsepower than the 4 stroke. I'm looking at the KTM 250 sx-f and sx. If I'm reading it right, why do so many still say the 250f is more powerful and what you should get to be competitive in the 250 class? Obviously I'm missing something and I'm hoping I can get some help.

Let's try not to turn this into a pinching and eye-poking discussion over whether a 2-stroke or 4-stroke is better; lets face it, if it's a motocross bike, they are all great. I'm just hoping to get clarification so I can make an informed decision next year.

Thanks!
You are in the grey area of the sport. Where does a young kid go when "moving up" to the 250 class? Well it really would serve you better to not get either of the bikes in question.

I would suggest a 125 2 stroke. If the KTM is on the table, the 150 is another great bike. On that note, the 150 has been a hit with weekend warriors looking for the biggest smile and ride days.

11/3/2017 11:06am
250 2-strokes already push 48hp stock, you can easily turn 52+ with just a mild port job, reeds and a pipe. 4 stroke 250Fs are pushing about 40hp stock; cam, pipe and ecu map can make 45, serious motor work with a port or valve job will get you to almost 50.

The reason the 250f is "faster" is because the way they are ridden. 250 2-stroke, as good as the SX250 is, takes a lot of focus to ride properly. Have to be on the pipe, take smart line choices, shift constantly and have a good feeling for that clutch. It's a mental and physical work out.

250F can be ridden lazy, and still go fast. Yeah, the pro guys ring them hard, but I know several quick vet riders who treat theirs well and still go plenty quick.

250 2-stroke is lighter, generally easier to switch lines, but I'd say handling wise it's a draw. The SX250 is just as up to date as the 4 strokes suspension and frame design wise.
JWACK
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11/3/2017 11:13am
Acidreamer wrote:
Get the 4 stroke. 2 strokes are woods bikes these days. Plus if youre just moving up to big bikes the 2 stroke will feel like...
Get the 4 stroke. 2 strokes are woods bikes these days. Plus if youre just moving up to big bikes the 2 stroke will feel like someone is jamming their dick up your ass.
Hahaha! sofuckingretardedcantbelieveievenreadthat...
Phillip_Lamb
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11/3/2017 11:15am
mnoble0902 wrote:
Hey all! Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now...
Hey all!

Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now confused. There's no denying the 4-stroke is the standard now. Doing some reading, it seems like the 2-stroke has more overall horsepower than the 4 stroke. I'm looking at the KTM 250 sx-f and sx. If I'm reading it right, why do so many still say the 250f is more powerful and what you should get to be competitive in the 250 class? Obviously I'm missing something and I'm hoping I can get some help.

Let's try not to turn this into a pinching and eye-poking discussion over whether a 2-stroke or 4-stroke is better; lets face it, if it's a motocross bike, they are all great. I'm just hoping to get clarification so I can make an informed decision next year.

Thanks!
the 250F has a wider spread of torque and power which means easier to be smooth

the 250T has a narrow powerband but higher hp which makes it easier to make mistakes


there have been multiple magazine tests highlighting these differences. Usually the fastest lap will be on a 250T but the 250f will be more consistent

The Shop

seth505
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11/3/2017 11:15am
Acidreamer wrote:
Get the 4 stroke. 2 strokes are woods bikes these days. Plus if youre just moving up to big bikes the 2 stroke will feel like...
Get the 4 stroke. 2 strokes are woods bikes these days. Plus if youre just moving up to big bikes the 2 stroke will feel like someone is jamming their dick up your ass.
JWACK wrote:
Hahaha! sofuckingretardedcantbelieveievenreadthat...
^^^
Potts
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11/3/2017 11:19am
mnoble0902 wrote:
Hey all! Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now...
Hey all!

Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now confused. There's no denying the 4-stroke is the standard now. Doing some reading, it seems like the 2-stroke has more overall horsepower than the 4 stroke. I'm looking at the KTM 250 sx-f and sx. If I'm reading it right, why do so many still say the 250f is more powerful and what you should get to be competitive in the 250 class? Obviously I'm missing something and I'm hoping I can get some help.

Let's try not to turn this into a pinching and eye-poking discussion over whether a 2-stroke or 4-stroke is better; lets face it, if it's a motocross bike, they are all great. I'm just hoping to get clarification so I can make an informed decision next year.

Thanks!
Seriously, if you have ambitions of achieving the goal of becoming a professional Motocross/Supercross guy then go with the four stroke. This is what the manufacturers are focused on and even though a two stroke makes more power per cc and is a lot of fun to ride, this is not what you will be racing.
Rockinar
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11/3/2017 11:52am
If you use Oil of Olay moisurizer on your hands, you want a 4 stroke.
Mike_Lawlor
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11/3/2017 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2017 12:27pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
2 strokes are really just 1 stroke and 4 strokes are really 2 strokes.....but 1 stroke didn’t sound good!
colintrax wrote:
In case youre not joking...
A stroke and revolution are not the same. 2 strokes are 1 revolution, 4 strokes are 2 revolutions.
glad some one else caught this too lol
Donovan759
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11/3/2017 12:26pm
Rockinar wrote:
If you use Oil of Olay moisurizer on your hands, you want a 4 stroke.
wtf even is that?? hahaha
Prejump
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11/3/2017 1:48pm
250 2-strokes already push 48hp stock, you can easily turn 52+ with just a mild port job, reeds and a pipe. 4 stroke 250Fs are pushing...
250 2-strokes already push 48hp stock, you can easily turn 52+ with just a mild port job, reeds and a pipe. 4 stroke 250Fs are pushing about 40hp stock; cam, pipe and ecu map can make 45, serious motor work with a port or valve job will get you to almost 50.

The reason the 250f is "faster" is because the way they are ridden. 250 2-stroke, as good as the SX250 is, takes a lot of focus to ride properly. Have to be on the pipe, take smart line choices, shift constantly and have a good feeling for that clutch. It's a mental and physical work out.

250F can be ridden lazy, and still go fast. Yeah, the pro guys ring them hard, but I know several quick vet riders who treat theirs well and still go plenty quick.

250 2-stroke is lighter, generally easier to switch lines, but I'd say handling wise it's a draw. The SX250 is just as up to date as the 4 strokes suspension and frame design wise.
Have you ever tried making a 250 2 stroke smoother ? I experimented with fly wheel weights & gearing at one stage. Makes a big difference to how usable a 2 stroke can be.

When I was racing to achieve UK ACU expert status, it was open class. Many guys were on 250f & I was one of them for a while. You have to be top 4 to score the experts points. Anyway only when I switched from 250f to 250 2 stroke I made it.

Yes you got to be smarter. But then again if I got a bit of a gap, I would enter a corner wide miss the deep ruts, square it off & unleash the power. They are great for that style or cornering. The 250f too heavy & slow to do it so they having to ride the deep ruts which can cause you to get bogged down.

Not for everyone but it worked for me at the time.

Also throughout my racing life witnessed 250 2 strokes having the wheels ridden off them many times. I know nowadays 450 are the pro choice, but at certain tracks a 250 2 stroke could still win, great power to weight ratio.
burn1986
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11/3/2017 1:54pm
First world problems. If your trying to get sponsored and plan to go pro, then go 4-stroke. If you're not then you can decide what you like.
mnoble0902
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11/3/2017 6:15pm
Donovan759 wrote:
*Very Large Sigh* ... Well... I thought this was obvious.. but if they're both 250's, they're equally as fast. The difference is with the two stroke...
*Very Large Sigh* ... Well... I thought this was obvious.. but if they're both 250's, they're equally as fast. The difference is with the two stroke, you have valves and with the 4 stroke its electric so no motor...

This should be in the electric Bikes Forum...

Edit: Let me know when you go to get rid of the YZ... I'll take it off your hands.
I'm moving up to a 250 next summer/early fall, so I won't be ready to part ways with my YZ until then. I will keep you in mind though when the time comes.
mnoble0902
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11/3/2017 6:17pm
If you are a millennial I highly recommend a 4 stroke
I'm 29...far from a millennial. I remember when the 250 2-stroke was the premier class.
mnoble0902
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11/3/2017 6:24pm
mnoble0902 wrote:
Hey all! Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now...
Hey all!

Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now confused. There's no denying the 4-stroke is the standard now. Doing some reading, it seems like the 2-stroke has more overall horsepower than the 4 stroke. I'm looking at the KTM 250 sx-f and sx. If I'm reading it right, why do so many still say the 250f is more powerful and what you should get to be competitive in the 250 class? Obviously I'm missing something and I'm hoping I can get some help.

Let's try not to turn this into a pinching and eye-poking discussion over whether a 2-stroke or 4-stroke is better; lets face it, if it's a motocross bike, they are all great. I'm just hoping to get clarification so I can make an informed decision next year.

Thanks!
Markee wrote:
You are in the grey area of the sport. Where does a young kid go when "moving up" to the 250 class? Well it really would...
You are in the grey area of the sport. Where does a young kid go when "moving up" to the 250 class? Well it really would serve you better to not get either of the bikes in question.

I would suggest a 125 2 stroke. If the KTM is on the table, the 150 is another great bike. On that note, the 150 has been a hit with weekend warriors looking for the biggest smile and ride days.

I am currently on a '15 YZ 125. I'm starting really late in life, so I researched and found they are among the best bikes to start with.
mnoble0902
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11/3/2017 6:28pm
250 2-strokes already push 48hp stock, you can easily turn 52+ with just a mild port job, reeds and a pipe. 4 stroke 250Fs are pushing...
250 2-strokes already push 48hp stock, you can easily turn 52+ with just a mild port job, reeds and a pipe. 4 stroke 250Fs are pushing about 40hp stock; cam, pipe and ecu map can make 45, serious motor work with a port or valve job will get you to almost 50.

The reason the 250f is "faster" is because the way they are ridden. 250 2-stroke, as good as the SX250 is, takes a lot of focus to ride properly. Have to be on the pipe, take smart line choices, shift constantly and have a good feeling for that clutch. It's a mental and physical work out.

250F can be ridden lazy, and still go fast. Yeah, the pro guys ring them hard, but I know several quick vet riders who treat theirs well and still go plenty quick.

250 2-stroke is lighter, generally easier to switch lines, but I'd say handling wise it's a draw. The SX250 is just as up to date as the 4 strokes suspension and frame design wise.
Thank you for this. This is helpful.
mnoble0902
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11/3/2017 6:30pm
TJMX947 wrote:
HP is closer than say 10 years ago when a 250F pumped out 35 HP vs a 250T having 45 HP. I would say your average...
HP is closer than say 10 years ago when a 250F pumped out 35 HP vs a 250T having 45 HP. I would say your average 250F now has around 41 HP save for the KTM/Husq which is around 43/44 HP. YZ250 = 46/47HP and KTM 250SX = 48/49 HP

From my own experience the 250T is just a handful to ride when compared to a 250F. It is definitely fun but it takes more skill/finesse as well as conditioning to go fast for an extended amount of time.

I honestly felt like I could turn a single lap on a 250 two stroke faster than a 250F, but if I needed to throw down for five straight laps I always made less mistakes and went faster on a 250F. If you ride/race frequently the skill and conditioning will come. MXA basically said the two stroke holds an advantage on the start and after that its up to the rider to pick good lines, carry momentum, and limit mistakes to beat a 250F. At the end of the day we're all just amateurs so get what you feel most comfortable on.

Honestly if you bought a used YZ250 just to try out you could get your money back out of it easy if you wanted to switch it up in a year.
Thank you for this. This is very helpful.
kzizok
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11/3/2017 7:07pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2017 7:10pm
mnoble0902 wrote:
I'm 29...far from a millennial. I remember when the 250 2-stroke was the premier class.
Just FYI, a person that is 29 is a millennial.
Rockinar
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11/3/2017 7:34pm
Rockinar wrote:
If you use Oil of Olay moisurizer on your hands, you want a 4 stroke.
Donovan759 wrote:
wtf even is that?? hahaha
Moisturizer from the 70's/80's that grandmas use. They just call it Olay now days. LOL.



Gukamonster
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11/4/2017 1:13am
If you land off a downhill jump with both bikes pinned, the 2 stroke will rip away from the 250F on the next straight. The 2 stroke is also better if there is heavier, softer dirt and nice tacky traction. The 250F is a lot better in typical second moto conditions where the track gets baked late in the day, there are harder packed choppy braking and acceleration bumps and 3/4 of the morning moisture in the dirt is gone.

The 250Fs are getting better each year though, but recently so is the KTM 2 stroke. One thing you might want to consider, depending on the class rules you plan to race, is getting the 300cc motocross cylinder kit for the 2 stroke. It makes the 250SX a lot more like a 450 where you don't have to do everything absolutely perfect in the corner to get enough speed to clear the jumps. It allows the rider to get away with more "micro-mistakes" without killing your lap time.
calcoast
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11/4/2017 1:23am
What would be a good analogy for someone whose never ridden a 250 2t?

Would it be like someone whose never drove before being giving the keys to a Mustang or Porsche?
Prejump
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11/4/2017 3:15am
calcoast wrote:
What would be a good analogy for someone whose never ridden a 250 2t? Would it be like someone whose never drove before being giving the...
What would be a good analogy for someone whose never ridden a 250 2t?

Would it be like someone whose never drove before being giving the keys to a Mustang or Porsche?
Not that extreme, say someone who can drive a regular car given the keys to a rear wheel drive sports car.

250 2 stroke brought me successes. Most of my most scary moments happened on one. If your prone to armpump then you easily loop out.

I got a huge table top wrong on one once at a GP circuit. Came up short, the bike somehow ended up the other side of this massive bowl turn, upside down caught on the chestnut fencing revving its nuts off lol.

I think if your prepared to experiment with gearing & have a good attitide to lines & riding techniques on the right track they are good enough to win.

If I came back to racing It would be my bike of choice. Would make the sport a bit more special for me.


stone881
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11/4/2017 9:12am Edited Date/Time 11/4/2017 9:14am
mnoble0902 wrote:
Hey all! Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now...
Hey all!

Next year I'm moving up to a 250. I was all set on a 250f, but I've been reading about 2-strokes and I'm now confused. There's no denying the 4-stroke is the standard now. Doing some reading, it seems like the 2-stroke has more overall horsepower than the 4 stroke. I'm looking at the KTM 250 sx-f and sx. If I'm reading it right, why do so many still say the 250f is more powerful and what you should get to be competitive in the 250 class? Obviously I'm missing something and I'm hoping I can get some help.

Let's try not to turn this into a pinching and eye-poking discussion over whether a 2-stroke or 4-stroke is better; lets face it, if it's a motocross bike, they are all great. I'm just hoping to get clarification so I can make an informed decision next year.

Thanks!
If all your doing is racing track, get the f. Easier to ride faster for an entire moto and not make mistakes. If you do any freeriding, woods, sand, get the smoker.

I just came off of a 250 smoker and built a 270 sxf with some head work. I think its way easier to go fast on than the smoker.

Robgvx
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11/4/2017 10:38am
Rockinar wrote:
Moisturizer from the 70's/80's that grandmas use. They just call it Olay now days. LOL. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/11/03/223310/s1200_Screen_Shot_2017_11_03_at_9.30.45_PM.jpg[/img]
Moisturizer from the 70's/80's that grandmas use. They just call it Olay now days. LOL.



Not here.



dirtmike86
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11/4/2017 11:02am
calcoast wrote:
What would be a good analogy for someone whose never ridden a 250 2t? Would it be like someone whose never drove before being giving the...
What would be a good analogy for someone whose never ridden a 250 2t?

Would it be like someone whose never drove before being giving the keys to a Mustang or Porsche?
Its like whiskey vs beer. One you get drunk super quick but you probably wont be able to drink it all day without passing out or pissing yourself, and the other you can start at 9am and you probably wont get drunk as fast but you will still be standing at midnight.

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