Club MX being sued, could affect other tracks?

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1/16/2019 8:08 AM

I work in business insurance and each morning I skim through the daily email newsletter. This time, an article caught my attention.

It was about a father who is suing Club Mx after his son passed away at the track in 2014. I can’t imagine what the father and family must have felt and I send my condolences to them.

What is interesting is that they are fighting to change the way that tracks operate. I wonder if they’ll win and tracks will become more expensive to operate resulting in higher gate fees for participants?

Check out the article here:

http://www.advisen.com/tools/fpnproc/news_detail3.php?list_id=1&email=kathy.vanderslice@barneyandbarney.com&tpl=news_detail3.tpl&dp=P&ad_scale=1&rid=329319199&adp=P&hkg=x8c530v83z

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Vital Mx is not safe...

1/16/2019 8:17 AM

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

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"Thank God my father wasn't rich."
-Hurricane

"You wouldn't take clay to Southwick, so why take sand to Red Bud?"
-DV

"I ride a two-stroke because I am Weigandt-level cheap"
-Me

1/16/2019 8:29 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Having lost a child this this type of thinking does not occur.

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1/16/2019 8:51 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Jesus is this the way people really fucking think nowadays?

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1/16/2019 8:54 AM

MX915 wrote:

Jesus is this the way people really fucking think nowadays?

Just Bry145.

He's got a hard one for blaming women for working and not having enough kids.

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1/16/2019 9:00 AM

I hate to day it, but it's completely crazy to have a dangerous sport for kids done in such a haphazard, Wild West kind of way. It's insane to have high speed pro riders on the track with a kid trying out a YZ85 for the first time. You can't open a swimming pool and charge people to come bring their kids with no safety regs and no lifeguard- so why a moto track?
We all hate government regulation, but this is 2019 and I have a feeling that at some point things are going to change. At a minimum, have some flaggers.

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1/16/2019 9:15 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

DonM wrote:

Having lost a child this this type of thinking does not occur.

I agree, that should not even be factored into the equation.

However, I see a lot of issues here.

1. The minor child signed a waiver and the parent guardian did not- Neglect by track operator
2. Sending a mini out with full sized bikes- Neglect by track operator
3. The article wasnt clear if there were flaggers on the course or not.

I think for the track to have an insurance policy they must comply with many requirements even including grooming, prep flaggers, no mixed classes, waiver process, and a host of other safety factors.

This is a private facility and not a race facility so I dont know what they are required to provide, but I can tell you its going to be expensive to defend and the outcome may not be cheap either.

Yes moto is a dangerous sport for sure, but we need to be aware of the risks we take and the must be some due diligence on basic safety.

To me, the kid should never have been allowed to enter a track with a "catapult" knowing it was his first time, and especially during an open practice. IMHO minis and beginners should always have dedicated sessions.

Sad that the father did not know enough about the sport to do it safely and that no one at the track was there to guide them. Its a terrible tragedy and totally avoidable. We all are free to take the risks we know about, but we should also be informed of the risks.

No way a first timer should be in that risky situation. Not sure how to prevent it, but maybe it can be written on the waiver that you sign that beginners should never enter a track during an open session and to train the track workers better.

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2013 CRF450R Factory Connection revalve, All stock.

1/16/2019 9:17 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Holy hell... Take your bullshit somewhere else. Your backward ass "logic" that women and lower birthrates is directly responsible for the decline of moto has so many fallacies, it isn't even funny...

And the fact that you think parents with multiple kids would just "carry on" if one died. Going to go out on a limb and say that you are alone and have no children. If you do, I feel sorry for them.

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James

1/16/2019 9:20 AM

Not good! Terrible story.

Sounds like the young man was really a beginner and the father was not well educated on mx, tracks or risk assessment. The family should have been pointed to a track or riding session that was more suited for them.

MX is a great sport if done safely. Again, terrible loss for this family.

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1/16/2019 9:21 AM

Back on topic for the track safety...

I have chosen not to ride at a track when i felt they were not operating safely, but I have the experience to know it. Regrettably, this family did not. How do we prevent this going forward?

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2013 CRF450R Factory Connection revalve, All stock.

1/16/2019 9:24 AM

As a father of a beginner, even a clueless father of a beginner, there is no way my kid hits a track like those at ClubMX on an 85 after only a few laps around a flat piece of land in the back yard.

Tragic and horrible for sure...but he shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Terrible story and unfortunate for the man, his son, the track owners and the rider that was involved.

Pay attention! Motocross is inherently dangerous.

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1/16/2019 9:25 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

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1/16/2019 9:28 AM

After reading this it sounds like Glen helen is just an accident waiting to happen, dont they mix bike sizes and skill levels Daily.

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1/16/2019 9:30 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

I lost my 4 year old son 6 years ago a couple days before Christmas, due to an accident. I have 2 older children, daughter 24, and a son who actually turns 26 today. I love them all equally, but I struggle every damn day with losing my son. I still get tears during certain little things now and then. You could have 10 kids, and lose one and it rips your heart out just the same, next time you type something, re-read what you click “submit” on.

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1/16/2019 9:30 AM

Ramrod wrote:

This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

My reasoning is it would be more heartbreaking for a parent to lose a child if they only have one. If a parent has 5 kids and one is lost due to a tragedy, I believe it wouldn't be as bad.

If a resource is scarce it becomes more valuable. That's just basic economics.

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"Thank God my father wasn't rich."
-Hurricane

"You wouldn't take clay to Southwick, so why take sand to Red Bud?"
-DV

"I ride a two-stroke because I am Weigandt-level cheap"
-Me

1/16/2019 9:31 AM

Ramrod wrote:

Not good! Terrible story.

Sounds like the young man was really a beginner and the father was not well educated on mx, tracks or risk assessment. The family should have been pointed to a track or riding session that was more suited for them.

MX is a great sport if done safely. Again, terrible loss for this family.

I live near Club MX and my son went to school with the boy. It is a terrible tragedy, but that is the reason that i always traveled an hour from home to take my son to a track suitable for a novice rider and not a pro MX track with that caliber of riders. The young man was a occasional rider like alot of us who rode at his house in Lilesville (there is not a track in Lilesville). Terrible for the loss, but parents have a responsibility to do their homework about riding and riding areas before taking a young child to a facility of that caliber.

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1/16/2019 9:33 AM

SoCalMX70 wrote:

Holy hell... Take your bullshit somewhere else. Your backward ass "logic" that women and lower birthrates is directly responsible for the decline of moto has so many fallacies, it isn't even funny...

And the fact that you think parents with multiple kids would just "carry on" if one died. Going to go out on a limb and say that you are alone and have no children. If you do, I feel sorry for them.

If you can offer an arguement against mine, feel free to do so.

Oh wait. you're from Feministfornia.

Nevermind.


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"Thank God my father wasn't rich."
-Hurricane

"You wouldn't take clay to Southwick, so why take sand to Red Bud?"
-DV

"I ride a two-stroke because I am Weigandt-level cheap"
-Me

1/16/2019 9:33 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

DonM wrote:

Having lost a child this this type of thinking does not occur.

kaptkaos wrote:

I agree, that should not even be factored into the equation.

However, I see a lot of issues here.

1. The minor child signed a waiver and the parent guardian did not- Neglect by track operator
2. Sending a mini out with full sized bikes- Neglect by track operator
3. The article wasnt clear if there were flaggers on the course or not.

I think for the track to have an insurance policy they must comply with many requirements even including grooming, prep flaggers, no mixed classes, waiver process, and a host of other safety factors.

This is a private facility and not a race facility so I dont know what they are required to provide, but I can tell you its going to be expensive to defend and the outcome may not be cheap either.

Yes moto is a dangerous sport for sure, but we need to be aware of the risks we take and the must be some due diligence on basic safety.

To me, the kid should never have been allowed to enter a track with a "catapult" knowing it was his first time, and especially during an open practice. IMHO minis and beginners should always have dedicated sessions.

Sad that the father did not know enough about the sport to do it safely and that no one at the track was there to guide them. Its a terrible tragedy and totally avoidable. We all are free to take the risks we know about, but we should also be informed of the risks.

No way a first timer should be in that risky situation. Not sure how to prevent it, but maybe it can be written on the waiver that you sign that beginners should never enter a track during an open session and to train the track workers better.

You might want to read it again on your point #3- it says there were no flaggers.

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1/16/2019 9:36 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

DonM wrote:

Having lost a child this this type of thinking does not occur.

DonM I agree with you 100%. I have 3 kids and just lost a 3 month old in November. I still have 2 other children to enjoy life with but I it's doesn't make it any easier.

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1/16/2019 9:36 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2019 9:37 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

DonM wrote:

Having lost a child this this type of thinking does not occur.

kaptkaos wrote:

I agree, that should not even be factored into the equation.

However, I see a lot of issues here.

1. The minor child signed a waiver and the parent guardian did not- Neglect by track operator
2. Sending a mini out with full sized bikes- Neglect by track operator
3. The article wasnt clear if there were flaggers on the course or not.

I think for the track to have an insurance policy they must comply with many requirements even including grooming, prep flaggers, no mixed classes, waiver process, and a host of other safety factors.

This is a private facility and not a race facility so I dont know what they are required to provide, but I can tell you its going to be expensive to defend and the outcome may not be cheap either.

Yes moto is a dangerous sport for sure, but we need to be aware of the risks we take and the must be some due diligence on basic safety.

To me, the kid should never have been allowed to enter a track with a "catapult" knowing it was his first time, and especially during an open practice. IMHO minis and beginners should always have dedicated sessions.

Sad that the father did not know enough about the sport to do it safely and that no one at the track was there to guide them. Its a terrible tragedy and totally avoidable. We all are free to take the risks we know about, but we should also be informed of the risks.

No way a first timer should be in that risky situation. Not sure how to prevent it, but maybe it can be written on the waiver that you sign that beginners should never enter a track during an open session and to train the track workers better.

Beginners and slow riders need to stay on the amateur track. Then move up to the vet, then main.

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1/16/2019 9:37 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Ramrod wrote:

This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

Bry145 wrote:

My reasoning is it would be more heartbreaking for a parent to lose a child if they only have one. If a parent has 5 kids and one is lost due to a tragedy, I believe it wouldn't be as bad.

If a resource is scarce it becomes more valuable. That's just basic economics.

Just fucking STOP.

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1/16/2019 9:47 AM

As a dad of a kid who rides, I make decisions on where to ride based on track safety options for my son. If they don't have separated practices, flaggers my kid and I don't ride. Its tough with so many tracks being cheap and not wanting to put a few flaggers out there and not separating the classes. Oh well, organized tracks will get my money instead.

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Go Hawks!

1/16/2019 9:56 AM

I'm not sure what the solution is. Flaggers would be great to have but that would come at a cost. A cost I'm guessing a lot of people wouldn't be willing to pay for. Volunteers? Forget it, even less of those around and chances are if they're teens they'll be on their phones.

Maybe trade track time for those that ride for flagging duty?

I know every track operates differently but I always thought my local track did it right.

On weekends from 8am to 10am they have what they call the kids club. Those 2 hours are reserved for kids on mini's (50's and I believe 65's). No one else is allowed on the track.

After 10am, practice is broken down into 20 minute sessions by bike size and skill level.

Mini's: 65-85
Big bikes: Beginner/Junior/C class
Big bikes: Intermediates/B class and Pros

If there's not enough big bikes of a certain skill level to warrant their own session they're all grouped together.

They also have a mini track for the 50's so that kids can continue to ride after 10am in a safe environment.

It's not perfect but it eliminates the risk of adults possibly landing on a child.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

1/16/2019 9:57 AM

During a slow open practice I ride behind my son, and we park if A/B riders are out. Makes me nervous on a pitbike, but I would rather get hit than him. Some tracks with big fast blind spots I just won't take him to.

No matter how many kids you have, nothing makes it easier. My cousin lost one of 5 kids about 10 years ago on a bike. In a way it was harder because not only were 2 parents mentally screwed up, it really took a toll on the other kids as well. 10 years later there's still a lot of pain, and definitely issues with all of them. Nothing about it is easier with one kid or 100. You really can't rate these situations as easier or harder. In every case it's a worst nightmare come to life.

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1/16/2019 10:01 AM

I was at an open track day at my local club, it's a free day for non members to come check it out. There were all kinds of people riding the supercross track, from a little kid on a four wheeler to teenagers on full sized bikes hucking all the jumps. I watched one of the teens jumped over a little kid on a 65 on a large tabletop and I lost it. I went to the club president and told them this shouldn't be allowed and someone was going to get hurt. He said it has always been this way and didn't seem to care...

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1/16/2019 10:10 AM

Where is the line between the rider's personal responsibility (because we all know that it's a dangerous sport) and the tracks being negligent? Flame me if you will but I definitely believe that line exists. Tracks shouldn't be untouchable.

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1/16/2019 10:10 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Ramrod wrote:

This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

Bry145 wrote:

My reasoning is it would be more heartbreaking for a parent to lose a child if they only have one. If a parent has 5 kids and one is lost due to a tragedy, I believe it wouldn't be as bad.

If a resource is scarce it becomes more valuable. That's just basic economics.

Because children are fungible. Right. ermm wassat

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Twitter: @ftemoto
Instagram: @mstusiak

1/16/2019 10:14 AM

Bry145 wrote:

This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Ramrod wrote:

This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

Bry145 wrote:

My reasoning is it would be more heartbreaking for a parent to lose a child if they only have one. If a parent has 5 kids and one is lost due to a tragedy, I believe it wouldn't be as bad.

If a resource is scarce it becomes more valuable. That's just basic economics.

If you have kids, please give them to someone else that treats them like living things not economics. The future thanks you.

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1/16/2019 10:17 AM

This happened on the Practice facility track, which is much tamer than the main track they use for their paid members...and is dubbed as being suitable for all skill levels. There was about 45 seconds to a minute of track that featured 4 jumps, the rest of the track was just up hills, down hills, off cambers, rutted up deep sand that is somewhat technical. I've seen beginners come out and do a lap or two then load up just because they were struggling just to make it around.

This deal has been so hush hush that no one really knows what happened outside of the people who were there but I'll admit this really took me to a very dark and emotional place and happened a few weeks before I had a really big crash of my own and right before my wife and I found out that we were expecting. It was heart breaking.

I wish that family would have had some guidance, there were places close by that were easier and safer to ride for a true beginner. Its not difficult to recognize a person who is new to the track. This kid could have been rolling that jump in the middle or trying to get out of the way of the faster rider. I absolutely hate it for the family. I've seen beginners and newbies who get laughed at because they stick out due to lack of speed, skills, matching gear, new bike...etc...I just try to embrace them and give them the direction that I was lucky to get my first time at the track.

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1/16/2019 10:21 AM

Go to your local tarmac race track with your sports bike and see if -

They have Marshall's

They scrutineer your bike

They run grouped sessions based on pace

They have an ambulance on site during the track day


Now go to the local mx track - a circus by comparison, but, not for long by the looks of things

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