Cheating at Loretta’s

ge217
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8/7/2018 4:42am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2018 4:42am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Looks like there's still grass on the start so judging by that alone I would guess that it's day 1 practice.
Good thing you only guessed here. Considering we don't use the start for practice...
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Paw Paw 271
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8/7/2018 5:17am
I can remember back in the 80's when Bradshaw fell in the first turn at LL's and then got up and won the race by almost 30 sec.'s. When he came off the track the AMA officials where there and they completely disassembled that bike right in front of everyone. It was 100% stock. So it does happen.
I have seen bike disqualifies at LL's for small things like... Brake rotor covers, removed air filter screens and other items as well. So they do watch his closely.

Paw Paw
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rallendude
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8/7/2018 6:02am
Absolutely, cheating goes on. The top level guys in any stock class are less likely to cheat because they know there is a risk of getting torn down. But the rules are (or used to be anyway) if you think someone has a mod bike, you have to protest in writing within a certain time frame, pay your fee, AND the protest must specifically call out what you are protesting.

So let's say you think Mike Alessi is cheating with a big bore cylinder on his 85 and protest that. But they find the cylinder is ported in the stock class but the bore is stock dimensions, you lose your money and Mikey keeps his trophy. Sorry, Mike. I just figured he was probably the most protested kid in LL history.

If you're a top guy, you just find really sneaky ways to cheat. I know many folks who rode big bore 250s in the stock or mod classes that were illegal but they were not top 10 contenders so they never worried about tear down.

Even the age class guys cheat. I know of folks signing up in age classes older than what they were and I know of folks who raced A classes locally (maybe nationally) and later competed in the B/C age classes.

Then there is the age old C class problems. Guys who have qualified for C in the past will sign up for qualifiers. Guys who have raced B and sometimes even A locally will sign up for C class qualifiers - because our local C class is really slow but nationally it isn't fair for Johnny to race B class. I used to get very suspicious about this when I raced every weekend and would help others try to get to LL. It was really weird back in 2003-2006 time frame, every year about two weeks before the national the results page from MXSports' website would vanish. So you couldn't go through the list of previous qualifiers and compare to the entry list. I've seen guys get moved up to A because they scored too many B points even though they never made a top 10 at the national. Then I've seen guys who won their qualifiers and regionals by 25 seconds in C class get a pass when others KNEW they raced B locally and called to protest.

There are many ways to cheat and lots of people do it. But the only way to know if the kid in the photo was would be a tear down. And even then, they are hard to win. Anybody know if it happened or not?
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The Shop

TJMX947
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8/7/2018 6:59am
quiknic wrote:
I would put money on technique, practice and everything going right. I am twice the weight of everyone else in this picture below on a 125...
I would put money on technique, practice and everything going right. I am twice the weight of everyone else in this picture below on a 125 with a simple pipe, silencer and reed block... not some ultra built motor.

Just like the Loretta's pic above I am sure there is a wide variety of talent so I would not jump on the cheating bandwagon without seeing facts. Just my .02


Sick pic! How much do you weigh? I'm a heavy weight and I always wonder if it would be worth my time to get a 125. My goal is to have a YZ100 at some point in my life.
Dtat720
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8/7/2018 7:10am
Its been said there were 10, TEN, kids named Ryder racing this year. So yeah, i think you’re on to something here
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KennyT
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8/7/2018 7:13am
I would bet there are no kids cheating. Now their parents...that’s a different story
T-Fish
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8/7/2018 9:03am
KennyT wrote:
I would bet there are no kids cheating. Now their parents...that’s a different story
That’s probably the truest comment in this thread.
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jjavaman
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8/7/2018 9:24am
I often wonder about cheaters. Do these people cheat at everything they do? Do they teach their kids that’s it’s ok to be a cheat? Do the kids grow up to be cheaters? Are these the people who go to the hardware store,buy a saw for one job and return it,bring the bones of a prime rib back to the supermarket wanting a refund because it was tough?
I just don’t understand cheating in sports. How can you be proud of a win if you cheat to get it? A previous post said that guys who knew they aren’t top 10 so have no fear of a tear down running big bore kits?? They cheat to finish 15? Wtf? That’s a proud moment? Finishing 15th with a cheater motor? I’d be embarrassed...
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8/7/2018 9:24am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2018 9:27am
I think everyone was cheating in supermini back in 2000-2003 lol.

So much that they changed the rule to 112 instead of 105....it happens.

All about gettin an edge. Ben Lamay used to stock suspension components in a “innovative” way to give himself an advantage one year....deemed to be legal.....think
It was something like flipping the shim stack upside down. Or the valve upside down....something wierd. Kawasaki protested. so yea people are doing things to give them an edge.


But I’d sure feel like a complete asshole If I knowingly was cheating my pw50 child out of a championship because someone would tear the bike down. Have fun explaining that: “sorry son, you won but we cheated to win, so now your title is stripped”
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8/7/2018 9:26am
This one time I crashed pretty hard on my head during practice. I found my way back up to my truck, checked my fuel and headed to the line because I knew I was the 3rd moto..

I was really fuzzy and should not have been ridding, long story short I lined up and pulled the sickest holeshot I even pulled on my CR250R - I had the 2nd place bike by 7-8 lengths... turns out I went out in the wrong moto and smoked the 80cc class..

I really should not have been on the track :/
aroark247
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8/7/2018 9:29am
Kx125rider wrote:
I’ve gotta imagine it happens to some extent, probably less with the factory satellite teams. And is there a video to go with that picture bc...
I’ve gotta imagine it happens to some extent, probably less with the factory satellite teams. And is there a video to go with that picture bc the kid couldve just wheelied over the gate as it was dropping?
I'm pretty sure nobody, especially a 4 to 6 year can wheelie a PW50
2
8/7/2018 9:52am
This one time I crashed pretty hard on my head during practice. I found my way back up to my truck, checked my fuel and headed...
This one time I crashed pretty hard on my head during practice. I found my way back up to my truck, checked my fuel and headed to the line because I knew I was the 3rd moto..

I was really fuzzy and should not have been ridding, long story short I lined up and pulled the sickest holeshot I even pulled on my CR250R - I had the 2nd place bike by 7-8 lengths... turns out I went out in the wrong moto and smoked the 80cc class..

I really should not have been on the track :/
As hilarious as this is, I feel bad for laughing. But that’s a funny later in life story for sure !!
KennyT
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8/7/2018 10:05am
This one time I crashed pretty hard on my head during practice. I found my way back up to my truck, checked my fuel and headed...
This one time I crashed pretty hard on my head during practice. I found my way back up to my truck, checked my fuel and headed to the line because I knew I was the 3rd moto..

I was really fuzzy and should not have been ridding, long story short I lined up and pulled the sickest holeshot I even pulled on my CR250R - I had the 2nd place bike by 7-8 lengths... turns out I went out in the wrong moto and smoked the 80cc class..

I really should not have been on the track :/
Not sure if you are just being funny or if it’s truth. If it’s truth, other than the obvious brain damage, that is funny as hell?
2
8/7/2018 10:09am
It was true, I knocked myself out and managed to line up for my first moto.. I did not ride the 2nd and did not drive home..

It's all good, no serious damage done Smile
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MX Guy
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8/7/2018 10:24am
I’ve gotten many a holeshot back in the day, my dad always had me practice starts when I raced often. I think some of it is practice and learning your engine, some of it is a natural talent but most of all it comes from confidence in your race pace.
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kNewc
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8/7/2018 11:06am
Malcom Stewart just posted a vid of this start and that kid pictured in front of everyone didn't even get the holeshot.
WFO
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8/7/2018 11:15am
Cheating used to happen quite a bit. Don't race anymore and neither does my son, so can't speak to the current day. I would bet that cheating at LL's would be the LAST place you'd want to try it. Mini parents were ruthless back in the day. The stuff that went on between Millsaps and Alessi (and parents) back in the day was true theater!
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DAG
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8/7/2018 2:42pm
Yes...Mike Brown uses cryogenics to freeze himself right after the week and then thaws for the Qualifers the following year. While he had been on earth 46 years his internals are essentially that of a 21 year old.
Braaaphole
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8/7/2018 3:34pm
T-Fish wrote:
How much does it happen, and how far is a rider or parent willing to go? I’m sure it’s all hush-hush and nobody will ever say...
How much does it happen, and how far is a rider or parent willing to go? I’m sure it’s all hush-hush and nobody will ever say a thing until years have passed and they’re hammered around a bonfire reminiscing about the good ol’ days, so this’ll probably go nowhere. Are all of the bikes torn down and inspected, or do they have to be protested in order for that to happen? I was browsing through some photos and videos the other day and this one stuck out to me, probably because these bikes are super slow to begin with and, to my knowledge, are all bone stock. This kid looked like he was on a rocket compared to the others.
This picture has been circulating around social media the last couple of days and the first thing that stood out to me wasn't the gap but his technique. Look at his body position compared to every other rider you can see and it's obvious little man has been putting in some work and earned that holeshot.

I'm sure there's some cheating taking place somewhere, but no idea to what degree. I didn't hear any chatter of protest or suspected cheating out there this year. I honestly don't think it happens as much as it used to.
MikeID
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Boise, ID US
8/7/2018 3:54pm
This sounds like an excuse to post a holeshot picture. Here I am running away with it on my 250 against a few open bikes. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/08/06/279208/s1200_Screenshot_20180806_231754.jpg[/img]
This sounds like an excuse to post a holeshot picture. Here I am running away with it on my 250 against a few open bikes.


These photos are awesome. Totally threadworthy.
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tcallahan707
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8/7/2018 4:05pm
kNewc wrote:
Malcom Stewart just posted a vid of this start and that kid pictured in front of everyone didn't even get the holeshot.
1. It's not the same start.
2. The kid who got the jump in the video absolutely got the holeshot.
1
dmoore611
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8/7/2018 4:46pm
For the record it’s not pronounced ‘cheating’ it’s ‘sandbagging’. So yes, absolutely!

When the C class has athletes capable of laying the sickest flat scrubs you can’t help but scratch your head.
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8/7/2018 5:16pm Edited Date/Time 8/7/2018 5:17pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Looks like there's still grass on the start so judging by that alone I would guess that it's day 1 practice.
ge217 wrote:
Good thing you only guessed here. Considering we don't use the start for practice...
GE will you be riding zukis for the future ? ANY ftrs on them ?
racerx317
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8/7/2018 6:02pm
It happens more than you think... for example: Deagen got busted, dqed and docked positions for everything from running 60kits in his 50s to cutting the track repeatedly in a variety of nationals including LL. Hopefully they’ve learned their lesson, but who knows because there was never really any harsh penalties as there should have been due to the repeating issues.

That said... we’ve been torn down a bunch of times and had my sons age protested a few times as well. My kid has always been tall for his age and he has a Feb BDay so... the one year he had to run a tall seat in the 65 7-9 class at LL. He was taller than most of the 7-11 yo kids too. We’ve always played the game with “national limited motors” and always carried a birth certificate so... we’re all clear here. He’s on 125s now and regularly holeshots 250Fs and 250 2-Strokes so I’m still hearing tear down rumers from time to time. He’s just a dang good starter on a stock TM motor with a bolt on head and an HP Performance ignition. The bike rips in basic stock trim!
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CG118
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8/7/2018 6:25pm
racerx317 wrote:
It happens more than you think... for example: Deagen got busted, dqed and docked positions for everything from running 60kits in his 50s to cutting the...
It happens more than you think... for example: Deagen got busted, dqed and docked positions for everything from running 60kits in his 50s to cutting the track repeatedly in a variety of nationals including LL. Hopefully they’ve learned their lesson, but who knows because there was never really any harsh penalties as there should have been due to the repeating issues.

That said... we’ve been torn down a bunch of times and had my sons age protested a few times as well. My kid has always been tall for his age and he has a Feb BDay so... the one year he had to run a tall seat in the 65 7-9 class at LL. He was taller than most of the 7-11 yo kids too. We’ve always played the game with “national limited motors” and always carried a birth certificate so... we’re all clear here. He’s on 125s now and regularly holeshots 250Fs and 250 2-Strokes so I’m still hearing tear down rumers from time to time. He’s just a dang good starter on a stock TM motor with a bolt on head and an HP Performance ignition. The bike rips in basic stock trim!
So how did your kid do this year?
I love underdog stories, and they dont get much better than 125s against 250s.........
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racerx317
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8/7/2018 6:32pm
CG118 wrote:
So how did your kid do this year?
I love underdog stories, and they dont get much better than 125s against 250s.........
Broken humerus during qualifiers. Didn’t make it this year. We’ve just been doing local and regional series races to get back in shape for fall nationals and winter nationals. He’ll be running the TM125 in all classes though. Should be fun!
navalseabee
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8/7/2018 6:49pm
1) The video Stewart posted was from a different angle that didnt look near as drastic as this photo
2) The kid had way better technique to get over the gate, he like paddled like he was on a stryder bike
3) hard to see his number but i assume its Brayton Kreglow, hes a local where i am, i see and talk to him and his dad at the track all the time putting in the work to succeed. Im not surprised in the slightest he went 1-1-1 on a brand new PW they purchased just for LL.
Tiki
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8/7/2018 7:47pm
Son, if you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying hard enough.

It's a shit-show of cheaters all trying to out cheat each other. Its sad. I wish I had the funds to start a real grass roots TRUE amateur race series. No trainers. No mechanics. No homeschool. Just Parents with Kids out for some family fun and wholesome competition.

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KennyT
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8/7/2018 7:59pm Edited Date/Time 8/7/2018 8:01pm


It’s one thing making the other 5 year olds look like squids....but when you can do it against the best in the World it’s really badass
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