Chase format coming 2017!

early
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2/23/2016 3:20pm
I see it working this way, which in my opinion is actually not that bad.

First 10 races count toward chase qualifying. 10 guys qualify for the chase. You win a main, you autimaticlly qualify for the chase. Remaining chase riders are populated by highest in points at the time of the start of the first chase main. So guys injured at start of chase season are not eligible and someone else fills in. This also encourages everyone to race for at least one win during the regular season. Chase points are awarded to each rider at the start of the chase season 10-1 as a bonus according to regular season points order.

Chase rounds proceed as normal for 7 races. 40 man night show, qualifying races, 22 rider main gate.

I have not been a fan of the chase format, but thenpast couple seasons have really been snoozers. SX is a show and can be treated as such imho.
2/23/2016 3:24pm
NV825 wrote:
Awesome! About time something was changed. To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc...
Awesome! About time something was changed.

To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc. with the best regular season record gets knocked out in the playoffs? Put the work in to get in the playoffs, and then it's game on for the championship.
It's not a playoff. Baseball is 162 games regular season. Basketball is 82 games. A fraction of that number is playoffs.

You're referencing match races. A head to head race where the first guy to 4 wins moves on to the next round. First and second get a by week. First round is best of 5. AKA, Straight Rhythm. I'm all for it if the rounds after the points reset are Straight Rhythm races. That would be playoffs. Anything else is a gimmick to drum up interest from fair weather fans.
2/23/2016 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2016 3:57pm
I will be curious to see attendance figures for some of the races if it happens. Mid season races will be pointless. The last race before...
I will be curious to see attendance figures for some of the races if it happens. Mid season races will be pointless. The last race before the chase will be of all importance for bubble guys. Anaheim 1 may not have all the heavy hitters there if they want to nurse an injury and be healthy when the chase starts, knowing they can make top 10 by only racing 5-8 rounds.
avidchimp wrote:
I get what you are saying, but I think your point may be a bit off, especially if heat/semi wins pay points. There is still bonus/contingency...
I get what you are saying, but I think your point may be a bit off, especially if heat/semi wins pay points.

There is still bonus/contingency money to be made by racing from A1 on as well, and who's to say starting 2-3 rounds in is going to get you into the chase? Coopers' bike issue is point #1.
Why is it fair for a guy who wins a semi to get points and not the dude who beat him, straight up, in the heat...
Why is it fair for a guy who wins a semi to get points and not the dude who beat him, straight up, in the heat race and got 4th? When was that mentioned?

If points get reset lets just crown a west coast and east coast 450 champ, an outdoor champ and a grand national champ. Didn't realize the sport was regressing and creating a regional championship in the 450 class also. Lets be honest. The way the schedule is now the entire "race to the chase" is on the west coast and that's a little biased. Mainly baseball stadiums and hard pack will decide who makes it in.
Agreed (seem my mini novella on page 1)

I think there is more to consider than just the entire season. How about individual race itself. There has been lots of grumbling about it (too long, boring, most of the night doesn't "count"). But to pay points to a guy in the semi is ludicrous if he couldn't get out of the heat, unless its drastically less than the lowest points earned in the heat. I think that eliminating the LCQ's, paying heats points (and bonuses for holeshots, as laps led isn't realistic in this sport) Making more of a long night of racing count, while adding the benefit of closer points battles would be desired. Maybe try those changes first, see how close you get then add the chase system in a few years if you still feel its needed. But you bring up an excellent point logistically, the "race to the chase" would have to mix west and east rounds I think to be "equal" if that's whats trying to be accomplished. Then your messing with the 250's schedule and costing everyone (450's and 250's) more money. So you better be really sure your bringing in a lot more money and compensating, and/or this will provide the desired result or better from a points standpoint. Neither of which Im convinced will happen.
2/23/2016 3:27pm
avidchimp wrote:
I get what you are saying, but I think your point may be a bit off, especially if heat/semi wins pay points. There is still bonus/contingency...
I get what you are saying, but I think your point may be a bit off, especially if heat/semi wins pay points.

There is still bonus/contingency money to be made by racing from A1 on as well, and who's to say starting 2-3 rounds in is going to get you into the chase? Coopers' bike issue is point #1.
Why is it fair for a guy who wins a semi to get points and not the dude who beat him, straight up, in the heat...
Why is it fair for a guy who wins a semi to get points and not the dude who beat him, straight up, in the heat race and got 4th? When was that mentioned?

If points get reset lets just crown a west coast and east coast 450 champ, an outdoor champ and a grand national champ. Didn't realize the sport was regressing and creating a regional championship in the 450 class also. Lets be honest. The way the schedule is now the entire "race to the chase" is on the west coast and that's a little biased. Mainly baseball stadiums and hard pack will decide who makes it in.
Agreed (seem my mini novella on page 1) I think there is more to consider than just the entire season. How about individual race itself. There...
Agreed (seem my mini novella on page 1)

I think there is more to consider than just the entire season. How about individual race itself. There has been lots of grumbling about it (too long, boring, most of the night doesn't "count"). But to pay points to a guy in the semi is ludicrous if he couldn't get out of the heat, unless its drastically less than the lowest points earned in the heat. I think that eliminating the LCQ's, paying heats points (and bonuses for holeshots, as laps led isn't realistic in this sport) Making more of a long night of racing count, while adding the benefit of closer points battles would be desired. Maybe try those changes first, see how close you get then add the chase system in a few years if you still feel its needed. But you bring up an excellent point logistically, the "race to the chase" would have to mix west and east rounds I think to be "equal" if that's whats trying to be accomplished. Then your messing with the 250's schedule and costing everyone (450's and 250's) more money. So you better be really sure your bringing in a lot more money and compensating, and/or this will provide the desired result or better from a points standpoint. Neither of which Im convinced will happen.
...and the championship will be decided on the east coast only.. except for Vegas and maybe San Fran if they have another Super Bowl.

The Shop

2/23/2016 3:28pm
Snooze fest is because of the tracks. This is disappointing. Hope it doesn't happen.
Racer142
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2/23/2016 3:29pm
I think it can be done in a way that promotes racing hard all season. 17 rounds so what if the rest is after round 10 or 12 and only the top 5 in points are eligible for the championship? With how many factory riders there are alone today riders wouldn't be able to take it easy early and get 8th and 10th place finishes they would have to push to be top 5 at least most of the time
KlootZak
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2/23/2016 3:30pm
KlootZak wrote:
I just don't get why any top rider would go balls out in the first 10 races to win ... It's not that it's a safe...
I just don't get why any top rider would go balls out in the first 10 races to win ... It's not that it's a safe sport where you can get away with taking risks ... Then have your engine freezed ala Webb and you're done for the title even though you are the best ...

but it does add excitement for the last races (where I usually nod off) ...
Don't forget: - There is still win bonus money on the line. - Moto is as mental as it comes, letting a guy beat you EVER...
Don't forget:
- There is still win bonus money on the line.
- Moto is as mental as it comes, letting a guy beat you EVER is not good and these guys know this.
- With the exception of a few guys who have a ton of wins, there are a lot of guys who aren't truly even considering the title but would punt their grandma to row F for a win or even a single podium.
- It encourages guys to come back from injury versus getting healthy for the nationals.

I follow AX pretty closely, and I don't believe I've seen anything except positives from it.
Well that makes quite some sense! Wink I'll have an open mind for this change and hopefully it is successful Smile
NV825
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2/23/2016 3:38pm
NV825 wrote:
Awesome! About time something was changed. To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc...
Awesome! About time something was changed.

To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc. with the best regular season record gets knocked out in the playoffs? Put the work in to get in the playoffs, and then it's game on for the championship.
It's not a playoff. Baseball is 162 games regular season. Basketball is 82 games. A fraction of that number is playoffs. You're referencing match races. A...
It's not a playoff. Baseball is 162 games regular season. Basketball is 82 games. A fraction of that number is playoffs.

You're referencing match races. A head to head race where the first guy to 4 wins moves on to the next round. First and second get a by week. First round is best of 5. AKA, Straight Rhythm. I'm all for it if the rounds after the points reset are Straight Rhythm races. That would be playoffs. Anything else is a gimmick to drum up interest from fair weather fans.
ESSENTIALLY

By dictionary definition you are right. But for what our sport entails, the chase is the closest thing we can have to a playoff that doesn't require just 2 riders on the track at a time.
newmann
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2/23/2016 3:42pm
Sounds like a good idea to me.... [img]https://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/670xX/photos/Tattoos20100713190062.jpg[/img]
Sounds like a good idea to me....

Single or Double Stuff?

2/23/2016 3:46pm
What happens when a manufacturer is not represented in the chase? Will they be fine with that? Supposedly Honda was threatening to leave if it was equal displacement in 250's and they still would have representation in the class.
2/23/2016 3:49pm
NV825 wrote:
Awesome! About time something was changed. To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc...
Awesome! About time something was changed.

To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc. with the best regular season record gets knocked out in the playoffs? Put the work in to get in the playoffs, and then it's game on for the championship.
It's not a playoff. Baseball is 162 games regular season. Basketball is 82 games. A fraction of that number is playoffs. You're referencing match races. A...
It's not a playoff. Baseball is 162 games regular season. Basketball is 82 games. A fraction of that number is playoffs.

You're referencing match races. A head to head race where the first guy to 4 wins moves on to the next round. First and second get a by week. First round is best of 5. AKA, Straight Rhythm. I'm all for it if the rounds after the points reset are Straight Rhythm races. That would be playoffs. Anything else is a gimmick to drum up interest from fair weather fans.
NV825 wrote:
[b]ESSENTIALLY[/b] By dictionary definition you are right. But for what our sport entails, the chase is the closest thing we can have to a playoff that...
ESSENTIALLY

By dictionary definition you are right. But for what our sport entails, the chase is the closest thing we can have to a playoff that doesn't require just 2 riders on the track at a time.
Group stage like champions league soccer. Top 20. 5 man gates. Top 2 in each group move on after a few rounds leaving you with a top 8 battle for a few rounds. There's always another option. I have plenty. It's no different than game development. Run in to a problem, create a construct to alleviate the problem.
moscrop940
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2/23/2016 3:51pm
I will be curious to see attendance figures for some of the races if it happens. Mid season races will be pointless. The last race before...
I will be curious to see attendance figures for some of the races if it happens. Mid season races will be pointless. The last race before the chase will be of all importance for bubble guys. Anaheim 1 may not have all the heavy hitters there if they want to nurse an injury and be healthy when the chase starts, knowing they can make top 10 by only racing 5-8 rounds.
I can't see people not showing up to a mid season race because of this...

If an SX only rolls into your neck of the woods once a year, your going for the race that day, regardless of what the points system is.


Honestly, bring it on. We don't know unless we try....

A lot of you guys are saying "o well if Im not in the top 10 it doesn't matter". Bullshit. How many of us have raced our hearts out a local saturday night race that means LITERALLY nothing? We are all racers, and 99% of us give it our all no matter what.
2/23/2016 3:55pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2016 4:02pm
NV825 wrote:
Awesome! About time something was changed. To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc...
Awesome! About time something was changed.

To everyone complaining, the chase is essentially a playoff. Do you complain when a team in football, basketball, baseball, etc. with the best regular season record gets knocked out in the playoffs? Put the work in to get in the playoffs, and then it's game on for the championship.
Never go the playoff comparison. I know NASCAR tries to call it that and tries to appeal to the masses by recreating stick and ball sports, and we try to emulate NASCAR it seems. But the flaw is that not all baseball, basketball, football teams compete against each other every week, nor do all teams still compete in the playoffs though they have no chance of winning the playoffs. Nor do we keep a record (if we did you would have a bunch of 0-17's a couple of 1 or 2-17's, a 3-17, and a 12-17 record most seasons), we score cumulative points so the season builds on itself as our weekly "game plan," "plays," personnel, and coaching are reasonably unchanged race to race unlike other sports. I know the difference seems minute, and maybe they are non existent in some's mind, but in racing the "loser" has always had a chance to win, if you play a smart points game (ala Dungey of the past) you could come in second in every race never winning, but win the championship. In all the other stick a ball sports the game (race) you either win or lose and the championship is lost or won with it. Racing is unique when put together in a season like that, and our type of racing is more unique with the type of physical demands and rate of injury. I'm all for change, but we need a unique change to address the demands of our sport, not just modified versions of other sports that don't compare. And I don't think Playoff is a real possibility unless we reduced this to all head to head bracket matches... Or eliminated individual titles and points and only awarded team points and titles and every week the teams cumulative points for the night determine if they "won or lost" the race and we kept a record of that. But then we would have to have roster max and mins for equality, and limit two teams at a time on the track to race.

Full disclaimer. I like NASCAR, not a fan of the chase there (but its working for them it seems). I love MX/SX but don't want it to be NASCAR. And we cant be, our demo is too different, our following will never be the same, and Im fine with that. However I would like to see some logical changes to the point system. Shoot I would even be open to say Daytona (a unique supercross race) paying double points to shake things up, over a chase format.
BAMX
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2/23/2016 3:56pm
Fuck it....if we aren't going to have a series champion who was the best over the entire series, why don't we just quit jerking around and just script it like TV. I am sure that all of the ADD/ADHD idiots will love it.
kiwifan
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2/23/2016 3:56pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2016 4:02pm
woo hoo sounds awesome!!!! Smile I love it how people automatically think it will be exactly like Nascar when it hasn't even happened yet...
2/23/2016 3:59pm
Thank God! Now moto will be as stupid as nascar! This can only improve the sport, said no one ever.
mmcmx
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2/23/2016 4:01pm
All good things come to an end I guess
moscrop940
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2/23/2016 4:01pm
Also, we all want this sport to grow....how the hell do we expect to grow without change?

Its like when everyone says they want to get in better shape but don't eat healthier or work out......do you expect to do what you have always done and get different results?
kiwifan
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2/23/2016 4:03pm
TeamGreen wrote:
So, for those of you constantly complaining about how "boring" it is when the title is virtually decided in March-April... What's the down-side of having a...
So, for those of you constantly complaining about how "boring" it is when the title is virtually decided in March-April...

What's the down-side of having a "reset" with let's say...6 races to go?
Oh, and what if that reset gives everyone in the top ten (or within a certain amount of points from the leader) a chance at the title?

Let the ranting begin!
Stop talking common sense TG, they will get upset with you.
2/23/2016 4:05pm
Why not allow equal displacement 2 strokes to make people more interested? I think the shitty bikes and shitty tracks that cater to the shirty bikes is hurting the sport a lot more than having a stupid bunch of nascar-style shit would help.If Honda wants to quit over 2 strokes than fuck them. The sport didn't fold when husky, hodaka, ammex, and whoever dropped out, so I'm sure the sport will survive without the powerhouse crf's lol.
NV825
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2/23/2016 4:07pm
Group stage like champions league soccer. Top 20. 5 man gates. Top 2 in each group move on after a few rounds leaving you with a...
Group stage like champions league soccer. Top 20. 5 man gates. Top 2 in each group move on after a few rounds leaving you with a top 8 battle for a few rounds. There's always another option. I have plenty. It's no different than game development. Run in to a problem, create a construct to alleviate the problem.
While I don't think this is a bad idea, eliminating a full gate of 22 riders from a stop along the series will drastically drop the attendance at those rounds. There may be only 5-10 guys who can realistically win a race, but a full gate is needed for the fans in attendance.
JB 19
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2/23/2016 4:10pm
Jody ain't gonna be happy.
Mit12
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2/23/2016 4:14pm
Supercross has entered the entertainment business. It is no longer about the championship or the fans. It is all about the TV ratings. Jeff Gordon said it in an interview, "we are no longer racers we are entertainers that race!"

Things like this is how the FIM got involved in Supercross.

I hope that the manufactures push back hard on this move. I can not imagine how any rider or manufacture would want this.

Whats next? A spec. Bike that different manufactures can put their plastic on?

2/23/2016 4:15pm
moscrop940 wrote:
Also, we all want this sport to grow....how the hell do we expect to grow without change? Its like when everyone says they want to get...
Also, we all want this sport to grow....how the hell do we expect to grow without change?

Its like when everyone says they want to get in better shape but don't eat healthier or work out......do you expect to do what you have always done and get different results?
I agree changes can make this sport grow, and agree we need/have needed change for a while. I just don't think this is the right change.

How about focus the changes to the 3-4 night shows where 90% mean virtually nothing to the points, and absolutely nothing to all but the most die hard fans that actually ride/have raced. Granted I don't have all the details, but seems like we could start a little smaller and still gain in both the race to race interest as well as overall series interest by creating more excitement/awarding more points for various reasons night to night than change the very core of determining the overall Championship.
kiwifan
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2/23/2016 4:16pm
Why not allow equal displacement 2 strokes to make people more interested? I think the shitty bikes and shitty tracks that cater to the shirty bikes...
Why not allow equal displacement 2 strokes to make people more interested? I think the shitty bikes and shitty tracks that cater to the shirty bikes is hurting the sport a lot more than having a stupid bunch of nascar-style shit would help.If Honda wants to quit over 2 strokes than fuck them. The sport didn't fold when husky, hodaka, ammex, and whoever dropped out, so I'm sure the sport will survive without the powerhouse crf's lol.
You have gone completely off topic, but to humor you...

Equal displacement for 2 strokes and 4 strokes will never happen and not just because of Honda (clearly your favorite brand eh?).

You do realize that other manufacturers make 4 strokes as well dont you? Do you SERIOUSLY think they want to stop producing them (which they will as equal displacements would favor the 2 strokes at top racer level) given the amount of money they get in parts for 4 strokes? It doesn't matter that they make 2 strokes as well, they make more money out of 4 strokes than 2 strokes...its called economics, look it up some time.
Xeno
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2/23/2016 4:18pm
Not a team sport, people!
Why don't they do a "Monster Million" or some other bonus program?
"Chase" is a "Waste".
JB 19
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2/23/2016 4:18pm
Every pro sport is primarily entertainment. The NBA has even said they will ad a rule next year to try to curb the "hack a jordan" play. Their reason was that they are in the entertainment business and that that play hurts the entertainment of the game.

FreshTopEnd
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2/23/2016 4:19pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2016 4:30pm
I like to watch races to enjoy races, and the overall structure over a season doesn't matter nearly as much to me as what happens between the gate drop and checkered flag. If it creates an incentive for guys to hang in til the end of the season with intensity they might not have if they were out of it, I'll settle for that silver lining without worrying much about whether a grey cloud goes with it.

I've lived through about 10-15 major format changes in MX/SX since 71; the sport's going to live or die on the quality of the action between gate drop and checkered flag, probably not on a format change like this
Zracer
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2/23/2016 4:20pm
TeamGreen wrote:
So, for those of you constantly complaining about how "boring" it is when the title is virtually decided in March-April... What's the down-side of having a...
So, for those of you constantly complaining about how "boring" it is when the title is virtually decided in March-April...

What's the down-side of having a "reset" with let's say...6 races to go?
Oh, and what if that reset gives everyone in the top ten (or within a certain amount of points from the leader) a chance at the title?

Let the ranting begin!
Here is the downside . It makes the championship a joke . Last years Nascar champ missed 1/3 of the season . Its pathetic. Its not racing. Its reality tv bs. Not at all suprised that Team Green doesnt get that.

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