Cant make heads or tails of this

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4/17/2021 8:55 PM

OK, I'm sure all (most) have been watching the series as close as I have. We have heard from the commentators all about "statement rides" "exclamation marks" etc. But the results of this series still baffle me on a race to race level. We have riders like Roczen, Tomac and to a lesser extent Webb being all over the place on results race to race. Last week, all we read was how everyone was scratching their heads on how Roczen got 9th while Cooper rode a good race protecting his lead. Everyone was talking about how Kenny was in the midst of his "typical" late season fade. Then on Tuesday we saw Kenny win convincingly and Webb struggled. We heard how the team found something and Kenny "was back" and heard and read that Cooper struggled due to the pressure, and he was "trying to manage the points lead" while others said he simply cant ride whoops. Now tonight, we see Ken get out to a pretty large lead and Coop is riding ok but not setting the world on fire. Ken has a small crash in the whoops but remounts with a 6ish second lead. Coop runs him down and makes the pass and sort of walks away to a win. Now the talk is how Kenny is still struggling late in the race and how Coop is like the terminator late in the races. Meanwhile, Tomac is putting up results all over the map (9, 2, 3 1,5 etc.). WTF is the deal here? Its all over the place. I guess it boils down to "the field is deep bro" but god damn, I've never seen anything like it.

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Deano2021

4/17/2021 9:46 PM

If it took ken and Honda almost the entire series to “find something” then there’s something really wrong with that team.

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4/17/2021 9:49 PM

The field is deep bro.

The top three guys were on the podium tonight, just not in the order I wanted them to be in.

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4/18/2021 4:51 AM

Yep lots of talent, only takes 1 second a lap to make a difference. SX is difficult. Every body saying stuff....well its just their opinion. Thats why they actually racesmile

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4/18/2021 5:00 AM

TV needs some drama

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Make sure you downvote!

4/18/2021 5:02 AM

Tomac has not been the same since winning the sx title.
Hope he gets it sorted out before the out door season

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4/18/2021 5:04 AM

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

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4/18/2021 6:48 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

When you're in the zone and crash, it's not always easy to get back into that same tunnel of concentration.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

4/18/2021 6:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/18/2021 7:00 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

-MAVERICK- wrote:

When you're in the zone and crash, it's not always easy to get back into that same tunnel of concentration.

That's true but man he still had about a 7 second lead after the crash . I'm just a little surprised he fell off the cliff that bad where he coughed that up . I figured he would maintain it or maybe lose a little time but still hang on for the win.
Of course part of it is once Webb saw that happened he turned up to 11 and was really hanging it out.

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4/18/2021 7:41 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/18/2021 10:03 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

I’m repeating myself, but he seems extremely averse to contact; ground or rider. I can’t blame him if he’s more concerned about health than title. He’s fortunate to have a career.
After the fall, he seemed to choose caution over fight.
He was consistent, just slower.
1:36.868 1:36.129 1:36.970 1:37.048 1:36.713 1:36.528 1:37.593 1:39.368 1:46.217 1:40.207 1:40.248 1:40.808 1:40.142

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4/18/2021 7:52 AM

It’s frustrating for fans of Ken, but I think it’s inspiring.
He can still find the speed to drop a field of champs. Folks need to re-educate themselves on Ken’s reconstruction. The guy should be on disability, but we’re talking about how the hell he got 2nd instead of 1st.

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4/18/2021 7:54 AM

My guess.... those arms.... it is that simple.... late in the series, late in the main, he gave it all he had, but ya can't win if you can't hang on anymore

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Die Antwoord

4/18/2021 9:30 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

toroP wrote:

I’m repeating myself, but he seems extremely averse to contact; ground or rider. I can’t blame him if he’s more concerned ...more

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on any given night, but he’s also the most delicate. Physically, mentally, technically, you name it—if he gets his process disrupted it falls apart pretty quickly.

Cooper on the other hand doesn’t have the finesse of Ken or the brute force like Eli. But he’s like the weasel that keeps breaking into the hen house. You’ll think someone else has the win locked up and next thing you know theres a hole chewed through the corrugated metal siding and your prized egg layer has been reduced to a pile of blood and feathers. It’s frustrating to watch because there’s never been a night when he’s the fastest guy on the track. From the sidelines the way to beat him seems almost painfully obvious, so these races are like pulling teeth when you have to sit around and watch better guys lose.

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4/18/2021 9:36 AM

agn5008 wrote:

If it took ken and Honda almost the entire series to “find something” then there’s something really wrong with that team.

Is it just me or has Kenny and his Team been “in it” the whole damn time and won their fair share of races thru-out the season?

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Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals. I get my back into my living. I don't need to fight, to prove I'm right. I don't need to be forgiven.

4/18/2021 9:36 AM

Props to Cooper for a gutsy ride. Ken had it in the bag, went down in the whoops and never got it back together mentally - felt he had to jump through the whoops to avoid crashing. Cooper (traditionally not good in the big whoops and had struggled in the whoops all day and night) just twisted the throttle like a beast, made up the time and took the win. When the goin gets tough, the tough get goin. Just a gutsy tough effort from Cooper. Tip of the hat.

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4/18/2021 9:39 AM

TbonesPop wrote:

Props to Cooper for a gutsy ride. Ken had it in the bag, went down in the whoops and never got it back together mentally - ...more

Kenny was 10 pts behind for the Championship, with the lead guy battling for a 6 pt swing, if there was ever a time in your career to ride "checkers or wreckers", that is the moment.

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4/18/2021 10:10 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

toroP wrote:

I’m repeating myself, but he seems extremely averse to contact; ground or rider. I can’t blame him if he’s more concerned ...more

TheGetFresh wrote:

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on ...more

Yes, thanks. I removed the d.
Looking at segment times, Ken really lost the race in the whoops where he crashed. He had :32s and :33s
Prior to the crash, after, :34s. There was little drop off in other segments.
He just couldn’t attack and blitz after falling.

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4/18/2021 11:47 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

All I know is after Kens little get off there it looked like a different guy got back on the bike .

toroP wrote:

I’m repeating myself, but he seems extremely averse to contact; ground or rider. I can’t blame him if he’s more concerned ...more

TheGetFresh wrote:

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on ...more

So, out of his 7 wins so far this season, how many did Webb not cross the finish line first? How could he have not been the fastest? They all go the same distance, don’t they? Gate drop to finish line, same number of laps.

It’s still a race to the end, right? Did they change it to a lap time competition?

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4/18/2021 11:55 AM

toroP wrote:

Yes, thanks. I removed the d.
Looking at segment times, Ken really lost the race in the whoops where he crashed. He had :32s ...more

So Kenny made a mistake and fell in the whoops. After that, he backed it down some in the whoops to not make another mistake. Seems totally logical.

Webb saw all this and decided to go for it, riding on the edge and it paid off.

As I mentioned before, Kenny still held off Tomac so it is not like he was going slow. Eli was trying to catch him.

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4/18/2021 11:57 AM

TheGetFresh wrote:

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on ...more

toroP wrote:

Yes, thanks. I removed the d.
Looking at segment times, Ken really lost the race in the whoops where he crashed. He had :32s ...more

kpiper wrote:

So Kenny made a mistake and fell in the whoops. After that, he backed it down some in the whoops to not make another mistake. ...more

The guy who needs to be riding on the edge is the guy who is down 10 pts. That's the position where a higher risk strategy makes more sense.

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4/18/2021 11:58 AM

Dirty Points wrote:

The guy who needs to be riding on the edge is the guy who is down 10 pts. That's the position where a higher risk strategy ...more

Clearly, Roczen does not agree.

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4/18/2021 12:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/18/2021 12:07 PM

kpiper wrote:

So Kenny made a mistake and fell in the whoops. After that, he backed it down some in the whoops to not make another mistake. ...more

Dirty Points wrote:

The guy who needs to be riding on the edge is the guy who is down 10 pts. That's the position where a higher risk strategy ...more

kpiper wrote:

Clearly, Roczen does not agree.

It probably has little to do with strategy/racecraft, and everything to do with his personal appetite for risk at this point in his life.

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4/18/2021 12:04 PM

TheGetFresh wrote:

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on ...more

Weasel in the henhouse....LMAO....now that's funny right there, I don't care who ya are.....

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4/18/2021 12:34 PM

It definitely keeps it interesting and leads to a lot of discussion. Is Ken “programmed” this way? Will the next rounds repeat in this fashion? Kudos to Webb for turning it on and not giving up.

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4/18/2021 1:05 PM

kpiper wrote:

So Kenny made a mistake and fell in the whoops. After that, he backed it down some in the whoops to not make another mistake. ...more

Webb was faster on every part of the track, Kenny fell apart and dropped 3-4 seconds per lap

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4/18/2021 1:19 PM

TheGetFresh wrote:

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on ...more

toroP wrote:

Yes, thanks. I removed the d.
Looking at segment times, Ken really lost the race in the whoops where he crashed. He had :32s ...more

kpiper wrote:

So Kenny made a mistake and fell in the whoops. After that, he backed it down some in the whoops to not make another mistake. ...more

What’s your point? My post is just factual, not opinion. What about my post do you disagree with? No one said Ken was slow.

But it is a question of risk, isn’t it. Do you think Ken was riding to secure second in the championship?
Was cutting the gap to ten not worth the chance of crashing? Or is he not even thinking of points, just his health? It’s all interesting, but really unknowable. Ken might not know, and just reacted instinctively.

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4/18/2021 1:39 PM

toroP wrote:

I’m repeating myself, but he seems extremely averse to contact; ground or rider. I can’t blame him if he’s more concerned ...more

TheGetFresh wrote:

Do you mean “averse” to contact? I think that’s a good way to put it. Ken is arguably the most skilled rider on the track on ...more

WhatsStoppingU wrote:

So, out of his 7 wins so far this season, how many did Webb not cross the finish line first? How could he have not been the ...more

Dead right- start gate to chequers is the race- the first man to pass the chequers is the fastest overall, despite what happens in the middle. How is this so difficult to understand?

TP199, KW14, RC4 id imagine still have the ability to turn super fast one-off laps, does this mean they should be champ?

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The above may be fact or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting. I am not sure, you have no chance.

4/18/2021 5:09 PM

agn5008 wrote:

If it took ken and Honda almost the entire series to “find something” then there’s something really wrong with that team.

TeamGreen wrote:

Is it just me or has Kenny and his Team been “in it” the whole damn time and won their fair share of races thru-out the ...more

Yea, I agree. I’m not knocking Kenny or the team. I’m knocking those that say they “found something” When they win.

They didn’t find anything this late in the series. When Ken wins he just rode better than everyone else and made less mistakes. That is all. I just wish people would stop with the excuses. When Coop wins, it’s because he rode great. Same for Tomac. These 3 are special riders there’s no reason to take anything away from any one of them when they win (or lose for that matter.)

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4/19/2021 12:18 AM

gregyou wrote:

Tomac has not been the same since winning the sx title.
Hope he gets it sorted out before the out door season

Since fatherhood.

Paternity is a well known testosterone diminisher.

Eli will come good again.

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4/19/2021 1:53 AM

agn5008 wrote:

If it took ken and Honda almost the entire series to “find something” then there’s something really wrong with that team.

Oh you mean like KTM who travelled six hours after At2 to test and find ‘something’ to make Webb more comfortable at At3?
Yeah definitely something wrong with those teams.

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