Cant get Brakes bleed help

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1/15/2020 7:23 PM

09 kx450 I hit a tree and busted the brake line about a month and a half ago and I just got all the parts to put it back together and I put the new brake light on and I cannot get it to bleed I've tried conventional bleeding and back bleeding it if I slam the front brake wheel hard it. Will build some pressure but then bleed back off immediately If I rapidly pump it really fast to get any kind of pressure built up and immediately cracked the valve it still does not shoot any air or fluid and I've noticed when pumping the brake and cracking open the bleeder valve you do not hear it spit out air or fluid for that matter thanks for y'all's help

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1/15/2020 7:25 PM

Also the galfer line came with new bolts that are a little bit shorter then the OEM ones if that makes a difference I'm using the new ones that came with the line

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1/15/2020 7:33 PM

Sounds like maybe the master cylinder internals may have gotten damaged or needs a rebuild.

In the mean time, take the caliper off the bike and elevate it above the handlebars so the line is running up hill with the bleeder nipple at the highest point. It will help to use zip ties or a bungee cord to strap it to the ceiling or a shelf or something to keep it up there. Put a thin piece of wood or something about the thickness of the rotor between the pads.
Take the cap off the reservoir, open the nipple, and keep pumping fluid uphill with the lever and filling the reservoir until fluid comes out the nipple at the top. Close the nipple while keeping pressure in on the lever so it doesn't suck air back in.

This is usually a sure fire way to get a great bleed. If this doesn't work your master cylinder is screwed up or something with the line or banjo bolts.

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Powerband in every gear !

1/15/2020 7:49 PM

Ok thank ill try that tomm after work this thing has drove me crazy tonight had to take a break i spent 2 hours trying to bleed

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1/15/2020 7:50 PM

FGR01 wrote:

Sounds like maybe the master cylinder internals may have gotten damaged or needs a rebuild.

In the mean time, take the caliper off the bike and elevate it above the handlebars so the line is running up hill with the bleeder nipple at the highest point. It will help to use zip ties or a bungee cord to strap it to the ceiling or a shelf or something to keep it up there. Put a thin piece of wood or something about the thickness of the rotor between the pads.
Take the cap off the reservoir, open the nipple, and keep pumping fluid uphill with the lever and filling the reservoir until fluid comes out the nipple at the top. Close the nipple while keeping pressure in on the lever so it doesn't suck air back in.

This is usually a sure fire way to get a great bleed. If this doesn't work your master cylinder is screwed up or something with the line or banjo bolts.

100% master cylinder

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1/15/2020 7:53 PM

I had an issue with an air bubble I couldn't get out, it was a banjo bolt

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1/15/2020 8:14 PM

Should i use the stock banjo bolt or the ones that comes with line

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1/15/2020 8:31 PM

It sounds like a bad master cylinder.

Before looking for a rebuild or a new MC, try this first. Orient the master cylinder in such a way that air can't get trapped at the fitting coming out of the MC. This is a new line and the air and the brake fluid are essentially competing for the same space.

Try to get the brake line as straight as possible. Take it off the fork if you have to. Go through your bleeding process. Keep in mind this is going to be a slow process. If your MC isn't damaged, you should start to get some lever feel.

If you're not having luck with the supplied banjo bolt and you've tried every trick under the sun, try using the original banjo using the same process.

If all else fails, call up Galfer. They're customer service is really good.

Good luck.


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1/16/2020 4:39 AM

OK I really appreciate everybody's help on here thanks this may be a dumb question but if I take my thumb and block the master cylinder off and start working the lever I should have some sort of lever feel correct??

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1/16/2020 4:53 AM

govolsdeep1983 wrote:

OK I really appreciate everybody's help on here thanks this may be a dumb question but if I take my thumb and block the master cylinder off and start working the lever I should have some sort of lever feel correct??

You probably start with a rebuild kit for your master cylinder. Ive got the same brake line on my 09 kx450 and it works perfectly fine. If the rebuild doesnt fix it you need a new master cylinder.

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1/16/2020 5:11 AM

govolsdeep1983 wrote:

OK I really appreciate everybody's help on here thanks this may be a dumb question but if I take my thumb and block the master cylinder off and start working the lever I should have some sort of lever feel correct??

I have a very short piece of tubing that I put over the banjo bolt and tighten up. This is done obviously without the brake line on. The hose is just used as a washer to create a seal. Once you do that bench bleed it by using little pumps and look for bubbles which shows it's bleeding. Tap the master cylinder to get any trapped air out. Also use a zip tie or rubber bands of some kind to hold the brake overnight. You would be amazed at how many times I've had bad brakes at night time and came back to good brakes in the morning.

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1/16/2020 5:28 AM

All good advice. I had a similar problem with my front brakes one time that took me hours to get straightened out. I knew my Master Cylinder wasn't bad but it would not bleed for nothing, even with a vacuum bleeder. I ended up just opening bleeder at the caliper and leaving it open and letting it drip into a pan. I filled the the MC back up as needed. It started out it was taking it about 20 minutes to drip down then toward the end it was pretty much running straight. I guess I had a bubble that was blocking and just would not push through. But in the end, after all the effort I got my brakes back. I guess it happens but that is the only time I ever had that much trouble. Don't give up on it.

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1/16/2020 6:05 AM

I'm going to try all this useful information you gave me when I get home from work hopefully it helps the thing that annoys me the most is if I try to pump up the master cylinder and bleed it at the banjo bolt I get no air coming out at all nothing that again everyone

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1/16/2020 6:32 AM

I've got a syringe. That I use to bleed the brakes it also has a piece that I used to bench bleed a master cylinder plus I've already use a mighty vac hand pump on it lol

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1/16/2020 7:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2020 7:13 AM

A good way to force air out of the line is to push on the outside of the caliper with your knee, compressing the pistons and forcing fluid up through the line. Flick the brake lever until you start getting pressure back. Do this a few times.

The banjo bolt length isn’t all that important. What is important is the orientation of the washers that came with it.

Did you smack the master cylinder on the tree or just rip the brake line off?

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1/16/2020 11:16 AM

Jeremy Macbeth wrote:

A good way to force air out of the line is to push on the outside of the caliper with your knee, compressing the pistons and forcing fluid up through the line. Flick the brake lever until you start getting pressure back. Do this a few times.

The banjo bolt length isn’t all that important. What is important is the orientation of the washers that came with it.

Did you smack the master cylinder on the tree or just rip the brake line off?

I dont really remember It broke the line about 6 inches away from the master cylinder or punctured the line

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1/16/2020 11:17 AM

I can hear the master cylinder making a swooshing noise if I work it really fast

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1/16/2020 11:24 AM

Pump it up then hold and crack the banjo bolt and re snug. That lets bubble in bolt out.

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1/16/2020 11:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2020 11:47 AM

Do conventional bleed on the MC banjo bolt about 5 times to first bleed MC and upper bolt. Then do conventional bleed at bleeder valve on caliper. Cheap vac bleeders from HF are nice but not necessary.

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1/16/2020 11:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2020 11:55 AM

I’m willing to bet you have air in the line from bleeding not from a broken MC. I like the gravity bleed method because, unless you have a really good syringe and are absolutely confident you’re not introducing air, or you have a vacuum bleeder, its hard to push fluid up.

To do this without problems you’ll need a good one-way valve on the caliper side. Motion Pro makes a great tool for this. I think they’re only around $25.

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1/16/2020 2:25 PM

You dont need fancy tools.

1. Pump lever & hold
2. Crack bleeder until lever hits bar and hold lever
3. Close bleeder and repeat.

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1/16/2020 3:21 PM

So I finally got fluid coming out of the nipple nice and solid no air in the line that I can tell but when I pump up the brakes I get good labor feel and then all the sudden it it bleeds back down I'll re-blade the banjo bolts starting with the master cylinder and it's good and solid from there re-bled the nipple and it seems like it shoots a good solid stream but I can still pump it and it gets good and hard and then it bleeds back off so I'm guessing maybe the master cylinder rebuild kit is what I need do y'all think there's a chance there still could be air in there because I would think the master cylinder would leak if it was bad

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1/16/2020 7:17 PM

govolsdeep1983 wrote:

So I finally got fluid coming out of the nipple nice and solid no air in the line that I can tell but when I pump up the brakes I get good labor feel and then all the sudden it it bleeds back down I'll re-blade the banjo bolts starting with the master cylinder and it's good and solid from there re-bled the nipple and it seems like it shoots a good solid stream but I can still pump it and it gets good and hard and then it bleeds back off so I'm guessing maybe the master cylinder rebuild kit is what I need do y'all think there's a chance there still could be air in there because I would think the master cylinder would leak if it was bad

The good news is you have the brake bleeding to a science for after rebuilding the master cylinder.

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1/17/2020 9:18 AM

govolsdeep1983 wrote:

So I finally got fluid coming out of the nipple nice and solid no air in the line that I can tell but when I pump up the brakes I get good labor feel and then all the sudden it it bleeds back down I'll re-blade the banjo bolts starting with the master cylinder and it's good and solid from there re-bled the nipple and it seems like it shoots a good solid stream but I can still pump it and it gets good and hard and then it bleeds back off so I'm guessing maybe the master cylinder rebuild kit is what I need do y'all think there's a chance there still could be air in there because I would think the master cylinder would leak if it was bad

lumpy790 wrote:

The good news is you have the brake bleeding to a science for after rebuilding the master cylinder.

😂😂

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1/17/2020 4:31 PM

govolsdeep1983 wrote:

So I finally got fluid coming out of the nipple nice and solid no air in the line that I can tell but when I pump up the brakes I get good labor feel and then all the sudden it it bleeds back down I'll re-blade the banjo bolts starting with the master cylinder and it's good and solid from there re-bled the nipple and it seems like it shoots a good solid stream but I can still pump it and it gets good and hard and then it bleeds back off so I'm guessing maybe the master cylinder rebuild kit is what I need do y'all think there's a chance there still could be air in there because I would think the master cylinder would leak if it was bad

lumpy790 wrote:

The good news is you have the brake bleeding to a science for after rebuilding the master cylinder.

You are correct just rebuilt it and brakes work amazing I feel like I'm an expert now at bleeding brakes lol

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1/17/2020 4:32 PM

Just want to say thanks to everyone for taking the time and replying and helping me get in the right direction after rebuilding my brake master cylinder worked like a champ

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