Can we all just agree...

TDeath21 wrote:

Roczen in 16 was just as fast.

H4L wrote:

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned...

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.

teamddr wrote:

RC has this every time

TDeath21 wrote:

My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06...

My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06 and 07 season.

My personal memory only goes back to the mid 90s but it is also the fastest I’ve ever seen two guys battle it out. They truly were on a different level.

The only guys in my opinion that would have matched that level only on occasion are Villopoto, Eli, and Roczen on their very best days.

D_L118 wrote:

Don’ want to turn it into a us vs europe thing.
But maybe you should rewatch mxdn 06.

chuckie108 wrote:

JS7 is the out right fastest dirt bike RIDER ever.
RC is the greatest dirt bike RACER ever.

FULL STOP

chuckie108 wrote:

JS7 is the out right fastest dirt bike RIDER ever.
RC is the greatest dirt bike RACER ever.

FULL STOP

toroP wrote:

Why then, in 2007 MX, did RC repeatedly run James down and drop him?

TDeath21 wrote:

Roczen in 16 was just as fast.

H4L wrote:

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned...

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.

TDeath21 wrote:

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a...

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a 20 second lead immediately, charged the entire time, and won huge. We saw what that got him though in moto 6. 15 Tomac vs 16 Roczen would have been a treat.

H4L wrote:

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned...

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.

TDeath21 wrote:

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a...

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a 20 second lead immediately, charged the entire time, and won huge. We saw what that got him though in moto 6. 15 Tomac vs 16 Roczen would have been a treat.

davis224 wrote:

I would love to see 2007 RC and James, 2013 RV, 2015 Eli, and 2016 Roczen go at it all other things being equal, but alas...

I would love to see 2007 RC and James, 2013 RV, 2015 Eli, and 2016 Roczen go at it all other things being equal, but alas, here we are.

Talisker wrote:

Sorry man,that’s no contest. Both James and Ricky would hang it out so far over their head just to win. Villopoto only had Dung. No dis...

Sorry man,that’s no contest. Both James and Ricky would hang it out so far over their head just to win.
Villopoto only had Dung. No dis respect!!, Dung was cosistent, he would not hang it out. Villo may have had way more mistakes if he had someone pressuring him with no cost to win!!!
D

Talisker wrote:

Sorry man,that’s no contest. Both James and Ricky would hang it out so far over their head just to win. Villopoto only had Dung. No dis...

Sorry man,that’s no contest. Both James and Ricky would hang it out so far over their head just to win.
Villopoto only had Dung. No dis respect!!, Dung was cosistent, he would not hang it out. Villo may have had way more mistakes if he had someone pressuring him with no cost to win!!!
D

zehn wrote:

Oh boy

TDeath21 wrote:

My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06...

My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06 and 07 season.

My personal memory only goes back to the mid 90s but it is also the fastest I’ve ever seen two guys battle it out. They truly were on a different level.

The only guys in my opinion that would have matched that level only on occasion are Villopoto, Eli, and Roczen on their very best days.

D_L118 wrote:

Don’ want to turn it into a us vs europe thing.
But maybe you should rewatch mxdn 06.

Jason XCmtb wrote:

Definitely. I was there and remember the "Fastest Rider On the Planet" getting made to look very ordinary. And in his prime too. He also got...

Definitely. I was there and remember the "Fastest Rider On the Planet" getting made to look very ordinary. And in his prime too. He also got well beaten by several riders at the 80cc Des Nations when he was supposedly the "fastest minibike rider on the planet".
The thing with Stewart is, he looked way faster on the day with his whips, scrubs and elbows up in attack mode, but laptimes don't lie.

TDeath21 wrote:

Roczen in 16 was just as fast.

H4L wrote:

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned...

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.

TDeath21 wrote:

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a...

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a 20 second lead immediately, charged the entire time, and won huge. We saw what that got him though in moto 6. 15 Tomac vs 16 Roczen would have been a treat.

H4L wrote:

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned...

He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.

TDeath21 wrote:

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a...

They both dominated. Only difference was Roczen opened up a 20 second lead immediately and then just cruised and won by 15-20. Tomac opened up a 20 second lead immediately, charged the entire time, and won huge. We saw what that got him though in moto 6. 15 Tomac vs 16 Roczen would have been a treat.

Park Boys wrote:

Agreed. Tomac completely annihilated everyone the second moto and Hangtown and it’s perceived that he won ever race by over a minute. The first moto of...

Agreed. Tomac completely annihilated everyone the second moto and Hangtown and it’s perceived that he won ever race by over a minute. The first moto of Hangtown RD was running a close pace till he settled for second and then Tomac opened that one up. People forget that at Glen Helen Dungey was winning late in a moto until his bike started stalling out, there was a good chance that RD wins moto 3 of that year. Tomac was amazing that year but he needed to learn to control it and it looks like he did. Roczen had his days where he was quite a bit faster but controlled races much better. He never crashed once all season in 16. The first moto at Glen Helen 2016 may have been Roczens best few laps ever over midway into the race he decides he has had enough and starts running 4 seconds a lap faster then Dungey on Arguably the gnarliest track of all time. It’s a damn shame they took it off NBC gold because it was amazing to watch when he pulled the pin on that track. His Glen Helen laps where even more impressive than his first lap of Millville. 13RV vs 15Tomac vs 16Roczen vs 18Herlings would be a dream but injuries and the brutality of the sport make it so the greats rarely race each other at 100% oh and the fact that one was in Europe.

TDeath21 wrote:

One of the biggest, if not the biggest, travesties in this sport's history is that we never will get to see Roczen vs Tomac on 450s...

One of the biggest, if not the biggest, travesties in this sport's history is that we never will get to see Roczen vs Tomac on 450s at full strength.

14 - Tomac hurt in SX, comes in halfway through the season.

15 - Roczen back injury, Tomac major crash and shoulder surgery.

16 - Tomac still not 100% from the shoulder injuries.

17 - Roczen massive crash in SX

And after that 17 crash, Roczen will never be back to that 16 level. He's still so incredible that he's still able to win races even with almost having his arm amputated. Point still stands though that due to that crash he will never be back to 100%.

Spagina767 wrote:

Everyone is so huge on bike technology but the bell curve has flattened a ton in the last 15 years. Yeah efi, mapping, etc but I...

Everyone is so huge on bike technology but the bell curve has flattened a ton in the last 15 years. Yeah efi, mapping, etc but I guarantee those carbed factory 450’s in 06/07 didn’t bog. EFI or not, they ripped. Sound standards were lower, so they had better exhaust flow. Suspension really hasn’t changed THAT much. Yes it’s better but overall, not a massive change. The dude I deal with at a very, very reputable builder (who has scored national points, and has a brother who has won races 🤔) was giving me advice when I was looking for a KTM. He said the 164cs forks were SO TRRRIBLE, that the Showa’s on my 04 RM 250 were better without question. That was only a few years ago, on arguably one of the best bikes.

I watched high point and steel city in 06/07 live. I can’t say they were faster then, than now, but I can say that they were INCREDIBLE and the riders of today would not win by much, if they did.

Speaking of bell curves of rider advancement/ bike advancement, that’s how I feel about the best from 07-now, 13 years. Can you imagine the best from 94-07? THAT is when the sport progressed at an unreal rate. Wouldn’t even be a conversation.

Park Boys wrote:

Ah the mighty question, if there was a metric for figuring out fastest ever through the times of course it’s RC vs James in 06 and...

Ah the mighty question, if there was a metric for figuring out fastest ever through the times of course it’s RC vs James in 06 and 07. But even then we only witnessed it briefly. 06 high point was at least 6 years ahead of its time. James pushed RC more in the first 20 minutes of that Moto than Reed did in his 450 career and you could see it with the little mistakes and then James of course does the big one. Then next week it was not James’s fault his Kawasaki took a shit and he was not the same the rest of the year. The dilla then took him out as well. We had one good race with those two the whole second half of the season due to James being behind the 8 ball. What people have to remember is RC is the undisputed GOAT but when he was 20 outdoors there were a handful of guys that could beat him even if he was at full tilt. When James was 20 he had to race RC in the prime of his career on a bike he had dialed. 07 was looking great too with RC having the slight edge with James crashing out of two Moto wins including the last Moto they ever raced. Also RC in 07 was his peak indoors and out, People will say because he was in a half season he was not, but visibly he was. After 5 races they were separated by 15 points and again James was only 21. When RC was 20 and 21 he was behind at times in points too and he certainly wasn’t racing someone like James. Again though RC is the GOAT, James gave up on that title when he was the best motocross racer in the world and he QUIT racing motocross.

If you use Reed as the Metric, that’s why I say they where 6 years ahead. At hangtown and high point 06 Reed was not even competition. Hangtown he’s gone the first moto and James runs him down after stalling and RC came from a first turn crash to nearly run him down, with goggles perhaps he still does and in the other 2 motos with the big two fully healthy he was not even close. Yet in 2011 Reed was highly competitive winning races and motos nearly weekly against RD and RV.

It was not until 2013 RV IMO with RV where you could say that a prime 06-07 Stew and RC would want nothing to do with RV. Since then loads of guys have gone faster on both sides of the pond but they have not really raised the bar from what those two were doing 14 years ago.

chuckie108 wrote:

JS7 is the out right fastest dirt bike RIDER ever.
RC is the greatest dirt bike RACER ever.

FULL STOP

toroP wrote:

Why then, in 2007 MX, did RC repeatedly run James down and drop him?

TDeath21 wrote:

One of the biggest, if not the biggest, travesties in this sport's history is that we never will get to see Roczen vs Tomac on 450s...

One of the biggest, if not the biggest, travesties in this sport's history is that we never will get to see Roczen vs Tomac on 450s at full strength.

14 - Tomac hurt in SX, comes in halfway through the season.

15 - Roczen back injury, Tomac major crash and shoulder surgery.

16 - Tomac still not 100% from the shoulder injuries.

17 - Roczen massive crash in SX

And after that 17 crash, Roczen will never be back to that 16 level. He's still so incredible that he's still able to win races even with almost having his arm amputated. Point still stands though that due to that crash he will never be back to 100%.

Park Boys wrote:

Ah the mighty question, if there was a metric for figuring out fastest ever through the times of course it’s RC vs James in 06 and...

Ah the mighty question, if there was a metric for figuring out fastest ever through the times of course it’s RC vs James in 06 and 07. But even then we only witnessed it briefly. 06 high point was at least 6 years ahead of its time. James pushed RC more in the first 20 minutes of that Moto than Reed did in his 450 career and you could see it with the little mistakes and then James of course does the big one. Then next week it was not James’s fault his Kawasaki took a shit and he was not the same the rest of the year. The dilla then took him out as well. We had one good race with those two the whole second half of the season due to James being behind the 8 ball. What people have to remember is RC is the undisputed GOAT but when he was 20 outdoors there were a handful of guys that could beat him even if he was at full tilt. When James was 20 he had to race RC in the prime of his career on a bike he had dialed. 07 was looking great too with RC having the slight edge with James crashing out of two Moto wins including the last Moto they ever raced. Also RC in 07 was his peak indoors and out, People will say because he was in a half season he was not, but visibly he was. After 5 races they were separated by 15 points and again James was only 21. When RC was 20 and 21 he was behind at times in points too and he certainly wasn’t racing someone like James. Again though RC is the GOAT, James gave up on that title when he was the best motocross racer in the world and he QUIT racing motocross.

If you use Reed as the Metric, that’s why I say they where 6 years ahead. At hangtown and high point 06 Reed was not even competition. Hangtown he’s gone the first moto and James runs him down after stalling and RC came from a first turn crash to nearly run him down, with goggles perhaps he still does and in the other 2 motos with the big two fully healthy he was not even close. Yet in 2011 Reed was highly competitive winning races and motos nearly weekly against RD and RV.

It was not until 2013 RV IMO with RV where you could say that a prime 06-07 Stew and RC would want nothing to do with RV. Since then loads of guys have gone faster on both sides of the pond but they have not really raised the bar from what those two were doing 14 years ago.

Crush wrote:

Only issue with that is Reed was definitely better on his Honda 450 than he was on the Yamaha 450.

Park Boys wrote:

Agreed, I also think physiologically he was more confident against the Ryan’s at that point of their careers than racing RC and Stew outdoors.