Can we all just agree...

Titan1
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Titan1
Edited Date/Time 3/30/2020 5:16pm
That the Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart battles from the 2006 nationals were the best racing, and fastest riding we've ever seen...ever, in the history of the sport? How lucky were we to be able to watch those two battle in their prime!

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CivBars
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CivBars 3/27/2020 12:12pm
3/27/2020 12:12pm
Great racing!

Fastest? I don't know about that.
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Indian_Dunes_4ever 3/27/2020 12:24pm
3/27/2020 12:24pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2020 9:04am
Agree? Here on Vital?



I'm partial to the late 70's and 80's era myself....

Hannah, Glover, Bailey, Wardy, Johnson, O'mara, Magoo etc etc etc!
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CivBars
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CivBars 3/27/2020 12:31pm
3/27/2020 12:31pm
James has recently said that Eli is next level. Maybe ask him? lol
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nascarnate326 3/27/2020 12:34pm
3/27/2020 12:34pm
IDK OP, when Eli is on...hes ON.

If he could do that all the time the others would have one hell of a problem on their hands.
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KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 3/27/2020 1:16pm
3/27/2020 1:16pm
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines.

Just based on common opponents and time lines.Yes people get better or worse each season based on bike/age/injuries, but RC and Stewart were on another level in 06/07.

The common denominators are Reed and Dungey. Chad Reed had only a couple moto wins during his time racing against RC. No overalls. He went SX only in 2007, when he came back in 2009 he didn’t exactly dominate, but won his first 450 overall race and then the title in a depleted field. In 2011 he raced Dungey and RV heads up, winning races and was the points leader going into the Chadapult, plus he won a moto at the Des Nations. 5 seasons after he raced RC in 2006, he arguably was the best he ever was in outdoors, but would he be comparable to RC? But Reed on his Honda in 11 was comparable to Dungey.

Then to back up the Reed comparison, Stew in 2012, after 3 seasons of Supercross only, and switching to Suzuki only a few weeks before Hangtown was comparable/beating Dungey in the first 3 races before the photographer incident in Colorado. Prime Stew was just as fast as RC in speed, but the results column still favors RC.

Then Dungey was comparable to Kenny in 2014,15,16 before injury.

Kenny and Eli have been comparable speed wise their whole career barring injury.

Yes there were races were guys dominated each other, Eli over Dungey in 15 at Hangtown/Glen Helen, or Ken over Dungey at Glen Helen in 16. But on average they were comparable on results/speed.

So hence Dungey=Kenny=Eli=RV=Reed
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slowgti
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slowgti 3/27/2020 1:18pm
3/27/2020 1:18pm
Kenny at Millville, 2016 I think. I can't remember watching anyone go that fast and look like a trail ride. I watched it again the other day and I still shook my head watching it.
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AJ565
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AJ565 3/27/2020 1:21pm
3/27/2020 1:21pm
KirkChandler wrote:
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines. Just based...
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines.

Just based on common opponents and time lines.Yes people get better or worse each season based on bike/age/injuries, but RC and Stewart were on another level in 06/07.

The common denominators are Reed and Dungey. Chad Reed had only a couple moto wins during his time racing against RC. No overalls. He went SX only in 2007, when he came back in 2009 he didn’t exactly dominate, but won his first 450 overall race and then the title in a depleted field. In 2011 he raced Dungey and RV heads up, winning races and was the points leader going into the Chadapult, plus he won a moto at the Des Nations. 5 seasons after he raced RC in 2006, he arguably was the best he ever was in outdoors, but would he be comparable to RC? But Reed on his Honda in 11 was comparable to Dungey.

Then to back up the Reed comparison, Stew in 2012, after 3 seasons of Supercross only, and switching to Suzuki only a few weeks before Hangtown was comparable/beating Dungey in the first 3 races before the photographer incident in Colorado. Prime Stew was just as fast as RC in speed, but the results column still favors RC.

Then Dungey was comparable to Kenny in 2014,15,16 before injury.

Kenny and Eli have been comparable speed wise their whole career barring injury.

Yes there were races were guys dominated each other, Eli over Dungey in 15 at Hangtown/Glen Helen, or Ken over Dungey at Glen Helen in 16. But on average they were comparable on results/speed.

So hence Dungey=Kenny=Eli=RV=Reed
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture.


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Racer111
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Racer111 3/27/2020 1:58pm
3/27/2020 1:58pm
CivBars wrote:
James has recently said that Eli is next level. Maybe ask him? lol
Yes, but James crushed Eli.
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#76
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#76 3/27/2020 2:27pm
3/27/2020 2:27pm
KirkChandler wrote:
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines. Just based...
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines.

Just based on common opponents and time lines.Yes people get better or worse each season based on bike/age/injuries, but RC and Stewart were on another level in 06/07.

The common denominators are Reed and Dungey. Chad Reed had only a couple moto wins during his time racing against RC. No overalls. He went SX only in 2007, when he came back in 2009 he didn’t exactly dominate, but won his first 450 overall race and then the title in a depleted field. In 2011 he raced Dungey and RV heads up, winning races and was the points leader going into the Chadapult, plus he won a moto at the Des Nations. 5 seasons after he raced RC in 2006, he arguably was the best he ever was in outdoors, but would he be comparable to RC? But Reed on his Honda in 11 was comparable to Dungey.

Then to back up the Reed comparison, Stew in 2012, after 3 seasons of Supercross only, and switching to Suzuki only a few weeks before Hangtown was comparable/beating Dungey in the first 3 races before the photographer incident in Colorado. Prime Stew was just as fast as RC in speed, but the results column still favors RC.

Then Dungey was comparable to Kenny in 2014,15,16 before injury.

Kenny and Eli have been comparable speed wise their whole career barring injury.

Yes there were races were guys dominated each other, Eli over Dungey in 15 at Hangtown/Glen Helen, or Ken over Dungey at Glen Helen in 16. But on average they were comparable on results/speed.

So hence Dungey=Kenny=Eli=RV=Reed
AJ565 wrote:
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/413827/s1200_1ruf22.jpg[/img]
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture.


Laughing
CivBars
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CivBars 3/27/2020 2:31pm
3/27/2020 2:31pm
I'm not so sure that James cares much about public reaction. The man went missing for how long? I'd love to see this hypothetical race of 'Fastest in their Prime' play out though. Maybe all of them can hop on a pod cast and bench race it out? They all should have the time right now Smile
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KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 3/27/2020 2:31pm
3/27/2020 2:31pm
AJ565 wrote:
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/413827/s1200_1ruf22.jpg[/img]
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture.


Looks about right. 😂
jorgechavez 3/27/2020 2:41pm
3/27/2020 2:41pm Edited Date/Time 3/27/2020 2:42pm
I don't know if anyone today is more skilled than Stewart or Carmichael but I do tend to think that they are going faster now but I mainly attribute that to the advancements in the technology used on the bikes. I have to imagine suspension is better than it was thirteen years ago or whatever. Back then they were running carburetors and now we have EFI and separate mapping just for the starts.

Just my opinion, though.
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Rob YZF250
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Rob YZF250 3/27/2020 2:50pm
3/27/2020 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 3/27/2020 2:51pm
jorgechavez wrote:
I don't know if anyone today is more skilled than Stewart or Carmichael but I do tend to think that they are going faster now but...
I don't know if anyone today is more skilled than Stewart or Carmichael but I do tend to think that they are going faster now but I mainly attribute that to the advancements in the technology used on the bikes. I have to imagine suspension is better than it was thirteen years ago or whatever. Back then they were running carburetors and now we have EFI and separate mapping just for the starts.

Just my opinion, though.
It makes sense what you're saying. I agree. But JS7 will always be at the top in my GOAT pick. Cool
chuckie108
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chuckie108 3/27/2020 3:31pm
3/27/2020 3:31pm
JS7 is the out right fastest dirt bike RIDER ever.
RC is the greatest dirt bike RACER ever.

FULL STOP
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 3/27/2020 3:37pm
3/27/2020 3:37pm
CivBars wrote:
James has recently said that Eli is next level. Maybe ask him? lol
Sorry to disagree with js7... But I see et3 about the same par as herlings outdoors... And et3 has never been dominant indoors... Maybe James was trying to be nice...

Next level may be ap7 if he brings it all together... otherwise... Next level may end with the name hunter....
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davis224
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davis224 3/27/2020 5:10pm
3/27/2020 5:10pm
I'm still of the opinion that there is no faster way around the track than Eli in the first motos of 2015. But James and RC were still unreal in 2006, they were going as fast as the bikes would physically allow.
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mxracer666
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mxracer666 3/27/2020 6:02pm
3/27/2020 6:02pm
CivBars wrote:
James has recently said that Eli is next level. Maybe ask him? lol
gt80rider wrote:
Sorry to disagree with js7... But I see et3 about the same par as herlings outdoors... And et3 has never been dominant indoors... Maybe James was...
Sorry to disagree with js7... But I see et3 about the same par as herlings outdoors... And et3 has never been dominant indoors... Maybe James was trying to be nice...

Next level may be ap7 if he brings it all together... otherwise... Next level may end with the name hunter....
OK, NO disrespect towards AP7, but he's not at a superstar level. The elite level riders were (almost) all winners in their first year as pros

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jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/27/2020 6:18pm
3/27/2020 6:18pm
Can not argue with that Titan. Those few years when they raced each other , it was always a toss up on who had who's number that day. Reed threw himself in the mix now and then too , but the RC / James battles were pretty damn awesome!
CivBars
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CivBars 3/27/2020 6:31pm
3/27/2020 6:31pm
mxracer666 wrote:
OK, NO disrespect towards AP7, but he's not at a superstar level. The elite level riders were (almost) all winners in their first year as pros
Agreed, to an extent. I will say that given the right circumstances, AP7 will dominate every MX rider past, current, and future. (Coming from an Eli fanboy) He has that X Factor that a lot of MX bred riders lack from riding groomed tracks their whole life. Aaron is a special dude. We're only talking US based riders. Throwing MXGP riders into the mix is a completely different dynamic.
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zehn
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zehn 3/27/2020 6:34pm
3/27/2020 6:34pm
AP7 next-level speed? WTH are you talking about
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Helda3
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Helda3 3/27/2020 6:38pm
3/27/2020 6:38pm
zehn wrote:
AP7 next-level speed? WTH are you talking about
Someone has been drinking the bong water I see..
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CivBars
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CivBars 3/27/2020 6:41pm
3/27/2020 6:41pm
zehn wrote:
AP7 next-level speed? WTH are you talking about
lol Eli passes the torch to Aaron. Time will tell. Dig up this thread in a few years and prove me wrong. I've studied up on his tech and whatever else (can't let all my secrets outWink ) enough to have the confidence to say that I'm all in on AP7 for the long haul.
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CivBars
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CivBars 3/27/2020 6:43pm
3/27/2020 6:43pm
Helda3 wrote:
Someone has been drinking the bong water I see..
Only Moscow Mules. Maybe a sprizter. No homo. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Laughing
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GIwasB4
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GIwasB4 3/27/2020 6:48pm
3/27/2020 6:48pm
There is only one GOAT.
Everyone else is in second place.
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jemcee
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jemcee 3/27/2020 7:15pm
3/27/2020 7:15pm
App no we can't all just agree haha

I'm not a person that can compare riders from different times and all that hoopla

I'm not gonna say they were faster I'm not gonna say they were slower but the races between Herlings and Cairoli in 2018 (Really that long ago? OK if you say so) definitely reminded me of James and RC
From memory Valkenswaard, Matterly and Assen were epic for those playing at home
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Motodave15
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Motodave15 3/27/2020 7:28pm
3/27/2020 7:28pm
KirkChandler wrote:
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines. Just based...
Here’s my reasoning for RC being the best we have seen, even though they never raced heads up, in their primes, on comparable machines.

Just based on common opponents and time lines.Yes people get better or worse each season based on bike/age/injuries, but RC and Stewart were on another level in 06/07.

The common denominators are Reed and Dungey. Chad Reed had only a couple moto wins during his time racing against RC. No overalls. He went SX only in 2007, when he came back in 2009 he didn’t exactly dominate, but won his first 450 overall race and then the title in a depleted field. In 2011 he raced Dungey and RV heads up, winning races and was the points leader going into the Chadapult, plus he won a moto at the Des Nations. 5 seasons after he raced RC in 2006, he arguably was the best he ever was in outdoors, but would he be comparable to RC? But Reed on his Honda in 11 was comparable to Dungey.

Then to back up the Reed comparison, Stew in 2012, after 3 seasons of Supercross only, and switching to Suzuki only a few weeks before Hangtown was comparable/beating Dungey in the first 3 races before the photographer incident in Colorado. Prime Stew was just as fast as RC in speed, but the results column still favors RC.

Then Dungey was comparable to Kenny in 2014,15,16 before injury.

Kenny and Eli have been comparable speed wise their whole career barring injury.

Yes there were races were guys dominated each other, Eli over Dungey in 15 at Hangtown/Glen Helen, or Ken over Dungey at Glen Helen in 16. But on average they were comparable on results/speed.

So hence Dungey=Kenny=Eli=RV=Reed
AJ565 wrote:
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/413827/s1200_1ruf22.jpg[/img]
All I could see in my head the whole time I was reading this was this picture.


All i could pictuee in my head was this man
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WheelieNelson 3/27/2020 8:49pm
3/27/2020 8:49pm
If I was only a tv viewer I would prob argue and say the pace is faster now, BUT I was there that day at washougal when Ricky and James battled and I’ve never seen anyone go that fast before or after that In my 24 years of spectating that race. They were hauling so much ass it was unreal
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 3/27/2020 9:08pm
3/27/2020 9:08pm
My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06 and 07 season.

My personal memory only goes back to the mid 90s but it is also the fastest I’ve ever seen two guys battle it out. They truly were on a different level.

The only guys in my opinion that would have matched that level only on occasion are Villopoto, Eli, and Roczen on their very best days.
dimesandrhymes 3/27/2020 9:31pm
3/27/2020 9:31pm
its my personal opinion but I think RV2 is not getting enough respect in this thread.
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