Can it be more obvious...

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6/16/2018 1:25 PM

... that even a factory Suzuki 250 isn't even close to being up to par with the other 250s. Unless Hill just rides a 450 that much better, which very well could be the case.

Either way, hats off to Hill today. Even in a depleted field, those kind of results are impressive!

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6/16/2018 1:36 PM

I think everyone knows that the factory JGR Suzuki isnt up to par with the PC kawis or the other top 250 teams. The last time a top team was on the bike was in 2013 and it hasnt really changed since then, while all the other bikes have changed for the better. We'll see if Suzuki comes out with a totally new 250 that is similar to their 450 but who knows. Seems like Suzuki doesnt really care anymore, especially in the 250 class. When Suzuki didnt want to give Decoster what he wanted, they screwed themselves big time. They also had a top guy on the smaller bike at factory Suzuki, and the factory team had those bikes really competitive, so it can be done. They need a all new competitive bike, and for a top 250 guy to take a chance on one and they can be back up there.

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6/16/2018 2:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/16/2018 2:06 PM

JBrockman856 wrote:

... that even a factory Suzuki 250 isn't even close to being up to par with the other 250s. Unless Hill just rides a 450 that ...more

Isn't it obvious that most of this is down to Justin, not the JGR RMZ250?

Last year on the PC Kawi in the Nationals - 8th, 18th, 11th, 19th, 15th, 12th, 38th, 9th.

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6/16/2018 2:05 PM

Who exactly is riding a Suzuki 250 who is a top 5 talent?

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6/16/2018 2:51 PM

I agree the only tracks that he'll did good on that 250 were super technical and slow and he hardly ever got a good start off the starting line ever

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6/16/2018 3:21 PM

St Ann More wrote:

Isn't it obvious that most of this is down to Justin, not the JGR RMZ250?

Last year on the PC Kawi in the Nationals - 8th, ...more

Exactly.

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6/16/2018 3:29 PM

Does anyone remember that time when some guy on a KX125 waxed a field full of guys on 250f's by like a mile EVERY race? Jamie "Bubba" Stewerd or something?

Or does anyone remember a few years ago some German kid showed up on a super outdated RMZ450 and won 20 out of 24 motos? Kenny Rockasan i think?

Either way, something something 90% rider something something 10% bike

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6/16/2018 4:23 PM

rmoto003 wrote:

Does anyone remember that time when some guy on a KX125 waxed a field full of guys on 250f's by like a mile EVERY race? Jamie ...more

And KR went 5th in the first moto in Italy -11 on the 125 against a feild of 250s but Yeah its just the engine that makes for the poor JGR results...

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6/16/2018 5:11 PM

Hill has always rode a 450 better. Seems to just fit his style better in my opinion. Nice ride for him today and Pieck as well. Hope to see BOGLE back as well.

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6/16/2018 5:23 PM

Hill was sandbagging to get on a 450.

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6/16/2018 5:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/16/2018 5:36 PM

Well, it's a new bike for one, and Hill, having nothing to lose, took their latest machine and proved his raw speed in Supercross. It follows that he'd do well outdoors on this thing.

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6/16/2018 7:44 PM

JBrockman856 wrote:

... that even a factory Suzuki 250 isn't even close to being up to par with the other 250s. Unless Hill just rides a 450 that ...more

St Ann More wrote:

Isn't it obvious that most of this is down to Justin, not the JGR RMZ250?

Last year on the PC Kawi in the Nationals - 8th, ...more

So do you believe, given any rider of your choice, that a RMZ250 could see the top step of the podium against the current field?

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6/16/2018 7:49 PM

Clearly. However, I believe it's ignorant to think the equipment one's on doesn't play a significant role in said rider's comfort, ability to ride to their fullest, and ultimately their results.

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6/16/2018 8:50 PM

If the RMZ 250 is so shitty, somebody better sign up Enzo Lopes in a hurry. Hill doesn't want to race the 250 and has no desire to do so. He only tries his absolute hardest when he feels like it. Plus he's a way better 450 rider where you have to make the bike do the work more precisely instead of just hammering on it like the 250.

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6/16/2018 9:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/16/2018 9:03 PM

I think it just proves how depleted the 450 class is. Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Barcia, Baggett and that's it. I can't wait til Osborne, Plessinger, Ciancarillo, Savatgy, Ferrandis, JMart etc move up.

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6/16/2018 10:02 PM

JBrockman856 wrote:

... that even a factory Suzuki 250 isn't even close to being up to par with the other 250s. Unless Hill just rides a 450 that ...more

i think hills good result was a combination of a few thingss. One, he's a good rider who is more technical. He's not a balls out shut the brain off and twist the throttle. hes a thinker which is why he is good at supercross because you need greater skill in technique. so high point is a track that suits this style which is why musquin beat tomac in moto 1 and nearly got him in moto 2.

2nd, he's happy on the 450. this is him being in a mentally good place so he is riding more comfortably. on the 250 he was riding out of his comfort zone. being on a 250 you have to hang it out to be up front. on a 450 you cant ride the bike balls out or yuou die due to the higher amount of power. on a 450 you can back it down and still do well.

3rd the field is depleted. bogle, cooper, seely, anderson, wilson are all top 5 guys with all of them having already been a race winner or title winner. throw these guys back in and he might be further back, or not, its hard to say on this one really

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"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti

6/16/2018 10:06 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/16/2018 10:08 PM

Pretty sure it has to do with the fact that jgr has like a 10 person roster of like 5-10th place guys... I was just saying to my dad maybe if they didnt have sooo many mediocre guys and paid for a good rider theyd get better results. Kenny just won 2 years ago on a Suzuki. If they put Forkner, Savatgy, Jmart, any one of the 12 top 5 capable guys on star racing... on a suzuki theyd do a lot better. Theres a tonnn of talent, theyre just not on JGR... besides Bogle but hes hurt. Seriously idk how you can have thaaaaat many good riders in the 250 class and not get any on your team. Wtf is JGR doing. I do like that theyre giving people from 5-10 rides those guys deserve em, but come on guys.

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6/16/2018 10:15 PM

drt410 wrote:

Pretty sure it has to do with the fact that jgr has like a 10 person roster of like 5-10th place guys... I was just saying to ...more

come on guys?? Actually, Id prefer not to. Ill stick to girls (and the sock behind my bed lmao)

But to your point, who are they supposed to just magically sign? Teams just dont have free reign of who rides where.

Think of the race winners from the past 5 seasons. Now think of how many of them were free agents at the beginning of 2018. Now think of how many race winners that were free agents who's first choice of team was JGR. Not a very long list bruh

*disclaimer: this in no way implies that JGR isnt a great team, in fact I think they are an amazing team*

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6/17/2018 7:49 AM

Hill might ride the 450 better... and that 450 class might be as thin as toilet paper, where the 250 class is scrunched paper with shit on it thick.

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Cheers, Crush
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6/17/2018 7:51 AM

Enzo lopes 2nd on the hotshot on a uphill start.... the bike is horrible.

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6/17/2018 7:58 AM

I’ll post this again and Again. JGR did not bring a knife to a gun fight. Their bike is as competitive as any. Dean and J Bone know what they are doing.

Ghost

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6/17/2018 9:38 PM

There has to be a reason behind JGR's struggles though. They've got big money, great facilities, factory equipment now, smart people and a great environment for success. But they haven't put it all together..

They went hard and spent big dollars on Barcia and Stewart. It got them basically nothing in terms of return for what they put out. A couple of wins isn't what they were thinking i'm sure, they had eyes on championships and lots of them. Now they've had two "failures" back to back, its gotta be hard for the top shelf talent to go their thinking that's their best shot at a title. So what are they left with? Solid tradesmen who are just one tick below the top talent.

Whats the answer? I think they will probably have to go to the well once again and pay over the going rate for their next shot. Somebody like a Plessinger would be a massive target. As far as the Lites bike, there's a stignma attached to that 250 whether its fact or not. Its not seen as a class leading bike so they will have to pay over and above again to get a big name to ride it, especially as they don't have the greatest farm system of riders graduating every single year eg. GEICO and PC.

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6/18/2018 2:43 AM

JBrockman856 wrote:

So do you believe, given any rider of your choice, that a RMZ250 could see the top step of the podium against the current ...more

14year old kid won a moto of emx250 on a rmz250, some people in that class are double his age. But heck it must be the bike since a guy who is only interested in SX can't podium in MX on it.

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6/18/2018 3:07 AM

Like I said in the other Hill thread: There might be a 10 % lack of horsepower with the RMZ, but there's for sure a 50% lack of effort/motivation on Hill's side in the 250 class. If I was J-bone, I'd want my money back..

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