Call to action: AMA needs to dump FIM sectioning NOW!

Markee
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6/22/2018 6:00am
Intergalactic Moto of Champions Laughing
6/22/2018 6:06am
731chopper wrote:
What does the FIM do for Team USA? Are you saying Americans couldn’t race the event? Wouldn’t they just pay for a single event license?
GuyB wrote:
I'll check this weekend, but I don't think it works like that.
Canada gets to race? No FIM deal there...
Canada has an FIM associated national governing body, CMA. An unrelated entity, MRC, runs the national MX series. MRC is not under the FIM, so FIM (and hence WADA) regulations aren't enforced. CMA is bound by FIM (and WADA) regulations. Without CMA as an FIM associated governing body, Canada wouldn't be permitted to field a team at MXdN. The same could happen in the US.
6/22/2018 6:17am
Question wrote:
Yesterday I was watching the world cup soccer match between France and Peru. Something caught my attention, a Peruvian player got caught for cocaine a few...
Yesterday I was watching the world cup soccer match between France and Peru.

Something caught my attention, a Peruvian player got caught for cocaine a few months ago. He was sentenced 1 year at the beginning, appealed and got 6 months only so he could play the world cup.

Are the doping entities not the same, isn't it WADA?

If so, why Tickle would get a 4 years ban and a career ending sentence instead of a 12 or 6 months suspension?
Cocaine is banned only in-competition. An important thing is when he was tested. For a valid in-competition test, the athlete must be chaperoned by a WADA representative from the time he leaves the field post-game until he has provided the necessary sample. Unless they tested him at the stadium following strict chaperone procedures from the second he left the field, it can't be said it was used in-competition. He could go on a cocaine bender in the locker room after the game and that is not prohibited by WADA. So WADA would not be involved in any aspect of the punishment. FIFA has the ability to punish athletes for non-WADA violations as they see fit.

It would be no different if a rider was visibly drunk in the pits after a race. No WADA violation. But AMA may not be pleased with this conduct, so they could suspend a rider for any amount of time they see fit.
tek14
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6/22/2018 6:34am
I didn't know anybody who got caught was doping. Please enlighten me. That's some serious shit.
tek14 wrote:
Tickle was caught using doping.
lostboy819 wrote:
Tickle tested positive for a banned substance is a better way to put it. Squirrelings was making fun of your English Tek14
Yeah sure his english is better but thats all she has.

The Shop

kkawboy14
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6/22/2018 6:34am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2018 6:36am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Tickle is a cheater.....they caught him.....
mx43 wrote:
What if he was setup??
Doesn’t matter...in there eyes he’s a cheater!
The burden of proof is on Tickle now, I’m not sure how he wins this against a monster who has lawyers in house and the contracts on their side!
early
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6/22/2018 6:37am
The factory's and their teams, riders and sponsors would likely migrate to whatever series was sanctioned by the FIM. So it does no good if FIM SX sanctioning is available someone is likely to pick it up, i.e. the guy making all the money in Europe.
lostboy819
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6/22/2018 7:38am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Tickle is a cheater.....they caught him.....
mx43 wrote:
What if he was setup??
Yeah right.WoohooWoohoo By who, its not like he was winning or even close. Nope he just got caught.
lostboy819
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6/22/2018 7:39am
tek14 wrote:
Tickle was caught using doping.
lostboy819 wrote:
Tickle tested positive for a banned substance is a better way to put it. Squirrelings was making fun of your English Tek14
tek14 wrote:
Yeah sure his english is better but thats all she has.
I knew what you meant so your English is just fine. Cool
GuyB
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6/22/2018 8:04am
Yeah, I checked this morning, and as I suspected, each country has an affiliate sanctioning body that deals with the FIM. No affiliation? No participation in the MXoN.

In the case of Puerto Rico and U.S. riders participating for that team, it's a U.S. territory, just like Guam. (Hmm...could we have another team under the Guam banner?)
Donovan759
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6/22/2018 8:10am
GuyB wrote:
Yeah, I checked this morning, and as I suspected, each country has an affiliate sanctioning body that deals with the FIM. No affiliation? No participation in...
Yeah, I checked this morning, and as I suspected, each country has an affiliate sanctioning body that deals with the FIM. No affiliation? No participation in the MXoN.

In the case of Puerto Rico and U.S. riders participating for that team, it's a U.S. territory, just like Guam. (Hmm...could we have another team under the Guam banner?)
Thread hijack. lol. In all seriousness, since this is the case, my question is, what can they do about a more fair process in the drug testing. How would AMA go about adopting their own policy & testing the way NASCAR has. Would it really be that much more expensive? These are the things I think about when reading through these threads.
early
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6/22/2018 8:12am
GuyB wrote:
Yeah, I checked this morning, and as I suspected, each country has an affiliate sanctioning body that deals with the FIM. No affiliation? No participation in...
Yeah, I checked this morning, and as I suspected, each country has an affiliate sanctioning body that deals with the FIM. No affiliation? No participation in the MXoN.

In the case of Puerto Rico and U.S. riders participating for that team, it's a U.S. territory, just like Guam. (Hmm...could we have another team under the Guam banner?)
Looks like the US could load up this years mxdn with a bunch of American talent!

From Wikipedia:

The United States currently administers 16 territories as insular areas:

American Samoa
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
Puerto Rico
U.S. Virgin Islands
Minor Outlying Islands:

Bajo Nuevo Bank
Baker Island
Howland Island
Jarvis Island
Johnston Atoll
Kingman Reef
Midway Islands
Navassa Island
Palmyra Atoll
Serranilla Bank
Wake Island
GuyB
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6/22/2018 8:17am
Donovan759 wrote:
Thread hijack. lol. In all seriousness, since this is the case, my question is, what can they do about a more fair process in the drug...
Thread hijack. lol. In all seriousness, since this is the case, my question is, what can they do about a more fair process in the drug testing. How would AMA go about adopting their own policy & testing the way NASCAR has. Would it really be that much more expensive? These are the things I think about when reading through these threads.
I completely agree that the NASCAR model is the best one that I’ve seen.
mxb2
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6/22/2018 9:10am
Wiztardo wrote:
Read the story about Cade Clason as well. His story in particular hits me hard because he is a local rider and stand up person. It...
Read the story about Cade Clason as well. His story in particular hits me hard because he is a local rider and stand up person. It really is such a cluster f.

http://racerxonline.com/2017/11/03/privateer-profile-cade-clason-addres…
Didnt he get in a bike, motor ,ignition conflict at a track ,owing a bunch of $$?
6/22/2018 9:12am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2018 9:15am
Question wrote:
Yesterday I was watching the world cup soccer match between France and Peru. Something caught my attention, a Peruvian player got caught for cocaine a few...
Yesterday I was watching the world cup soccer match between France and Peru.

Something caught my attention, a Peruvian player got caught for cocaine a few months ago. He was sentenced 1 year at the beginning, appealed and got 6 months only so he could play the world cup.

Are the doping entities not the same, isn't it WADA?

If so, why Tickle would get a 4 years ban and a career ending sentence instead of a 12 or 6 months suspension?
Because world cup soccer is filled with conspicuous acts and crimes all the way from the top down. Its political power is what holds the world cup together. The money that it brings in is unmatched and nobody can stop that.

Our sport is a hick sport. That Will never change. Like Nascar we need to follow their principles and guidelines for its testing procedures as it works and it fair. While our sport is loved by us the "good old's boys" It Will never be recognized as a real sport in the eyes of politics.

Bottom line is our sport doesnt need Fim or its sanctioning bodies because our sport is small and is worth peanuts compared to other world sport orginizations. It isnt looked at as a real sport in many eyes and Fim and wada enforcing their ridiculous rules and bogus testing procedures is out of control.

I believe like Js7, Tickle will lose his motivation to race ever again. I can only imagine the amount of time and frustration that these riders had to sit with. These guys aren't 20. Not too mention Tickle claiming he was in the best shape if his life phisically.....sad!

Robgvx
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6/22/2018 11:29am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2018 2:24pm
PTshox wrote:
Just read that news clip about Tickle getting rejected for a lifting of the provisional suspension. This FIM/WADA suspension and handling of such situations is just...
Just read that news clip about Tickle getting rejected for a lifting of the provisional suspension. This FIM/WADA suspension and handling of such situations is just flat stupid.

This is a call out to AMA racing and Davy Coombs. It is time to step up and dump the FIM sectioning of any US based series. We don’t need them. They are hurting our sport with their over the top suspensions and BS processes.

Take control of the US series and bring all decisions on it back home to the USA. Follow what the stick and ball sports in the US do.. their drug programs and sentences.

Act today. Not in 1 year, 2 years, or even 3 months. Get on a con call with the folks running AMA racing and get this done. DUMP THE FIM. Today.



The AMA is the US affiliate of the FIM. Why would the AMA choose to break it’s ties with the world governing body just because some random Supercross guy failed a drug test? A drug test that was part of a testing programme that to my understanding was implemented upon the request of, amongst others, manufacturers, teams and riders?

So, that would never happen. But, assuming it did, and the AMA went off on its own to run races, as you suggest, those races wouldn’t be FIM-backed and would not, in the case of SX, carry the title of world championship. ‘So what?’, you might say. Well, firstly when the AMA leaves the FIM’s fold, the FIM would I imagine seek out a replacement for the departed AMA - a new US federation or promoter to run their FIM-backed races instead of the AMA mutineers. Someone like, say, Youthstream. So, I think you’d have your ‘rebel’ AMA series, and you’d have a second FIM-backed race series, still with drug testing, but now run by YS. Then, believe me, drug testing would be the least of your worries.

And, of those two competing race series’, the OEM’s will always follow the FIM races. Why? Because the FIM is the world governing body of motorcycling. The OEM’s make motorcycles. They work with the FIM across all areas of motorcycling, and contest world championships held under the FIM’s umbrella in all other forms of motorcycle racing. Why would they side with a non-FIM sanctioned rebel AMA race series that’s competing head-to-head against the official FIM world championships just because one Supercross guy got caught with PEDs in his urine?

That’s my understanding. FTE might correct me... Smile

Phillip_Lamb
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6/22/2018 11:32am
forget dumping the FIM, its time to dump the AMA. they seem to have been a fairly ineffective sanctioning body for a long time.

It wouldnt take much to create our own non profit organization to better facilitate racing and rules.
Johnny Depp
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6/22/2018 11:40am
Dump them all, burn this mother down and rebuild it from the ashesEvil
MR. X
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6/22/2018 3:10pm
Ya, because that's what i said . I was responding to a guy who wants a system where a riders merit can adjust the outcome of an infraction like the ricky with illegal gas . I get it ,you cheer for a rider that needs to cheat to be competitive .
Flatliner
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6/22/2018 3:51pm
Honestly...... this thread or knew like it are one of the reasons I come here less now. The blanketed he cheated statements with no context for what the substance was, nor how the penalty is career ending, or how vast and very much overly excessive the banned list is to begin with.

I’m not a fan of wada or how they conduct business, period.
burn1986
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6/22/2018 7:51pm
It’s a loosing battle. DC and the AMA just don’t care. Tickle’s done and he doesn’t know it. James 2.0
lostboy819
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6/22/2018 7:58pm
burn1986 wrote:
It’s a loosing battle. DC and the AMA just don’t care. Tickle’s done and he doesn’t know it. James 2.0
DC has nothing to do with it but I agree the AMA is a bunch of clowns, always have been.
hamncheeze
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6/22/2018 9:17pm
OMG this thread could not be full of more misinformation!

WADA lays out the code. This includes the banned substance list and amounts, the penalty maximums, and then the athletic federations are signatories to this code. In this case, the FIM agrees to conduct their antidoping as per the WADA code. In Tickle's case, his penalty will come from WADA, it will come from the FIM. WADA has to agree on the penalty, but if the FIM said 6 months and WADA agreed then he'd get 6 months. If they didn't agree it could end up in the Court of Arbitration in Sport (CAS) but generally WADA will back the federation.

As explained earlier, with respect to Canadian moto, the Jetworx series is not CMA/FIM sanctioned so in theory a rider like Tickle or Clason could race in Canada. HOWEVER, there is a provision in the WADA code that stipulates the rider is banned from any competition and that competing would extend the start date of the ban. So if Broc raced up here this summer, and only got a 1 year ban, it could in theory not start until the end the Canadian series, instead of the day after San Diego. That would be a massive difference for him. In Clason's case, he is basically racing in Canada and fully knows he's going to to get screwed by his suspension start date. In many ways he's just giving up on racing SX, in my opinion.

I've said this before multiple times but the problem here is not WADA, the problem here is the FIM. They are the ones dragging things along at a snail's pace and not communicating with the riders.
hamncheeze
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6/22/2018 9:33pm Edited Date/Time 6/22/2018 9:36pm
PTshox wrote:
This topic gets me so pissed. WADA is essentially a dictatorship that has the sole purpose of ending careers. They have more control over the athletes...
This topic gets me so pissed. WADA is essentially a dictatorship that has the sole purpose of ending careers. They have more control over the athletes in our sport than the sanctioning bodies do and NO ONE in the AMA/Feld gives a shit. It's an embarrassment to the sport and SHOULD be an embarrassment to someone in the AMA/Feld to allow an outside organization this much control over a sport you supposedly "manage."


This post above nails it. Way too much power with fools at the controls. Take back the control USA riders. If they are going to treat you like crap then band together. The promoters should (will) stand behind you... as you are the show. But show resolve. Don't bend. Take a stand. "We are not going to take it". Trump would fix this in three days... LOL.
This attitude really chafes me. WADA is not a dictatorship. WADA is there to protect the clean athletes, and protect the interests of clean sport. And that matters. Many of WADA's execs are ex-Olympians, the ones who competed clean and continue now to work to better sport.

As a guy who raced a bicycle on the road at a decently high level, I unfortunately had the experience of finding out many years later that many of the guys I raced against and guys who beat me in my backyard were using EPO, HGH etc. I was a guy working a full-time job, and then trying to compete. I had some decent results in a couple of big races. I always thought none of the domestic pro riders in the early 2000s were doping.....that only went on in Europe, there was no money in North America, etc. Turns out I was wrong. Now, none of my results in said races were going to affect my life in any way, I was already in my 30s and non one was coming to hand me a pro contract. But when I slowly started to uncover all the guys who were doping in that time....yeah I was a bit bitter about it. But, I had friends who should have went to the Olympics on the MTB for Canada in 2004, but missed out because the guys who went were dopers. Those guys have way more reason to be bitter. Another friend missed out on the 2012 Olympics because a doper from that 2004 MTB team was now a road racer and got the nod to represent Canada, even though he never had to serve any suspension ever for his admissions to doping.

So this is why WADA and clean sport matter. When Jason Anderson hoists his #1 plate in Vegas, I'm happy to know he passed every drug test he had to take. Ditto for Herlings or Cairoli in MXGP. Or Marc Marquez in MotoGP. We all love a great race, a great battle, a great series. For me at least, part of loving that is knowing the athletic component of it is being done on an equal playing field.

I'm out.
burn1986
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6/23/2018 3:57am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2018 4:00am
WADA/USADA are just contractors. They were hired to do drug testing and punish violators. The ones who hired them know full well what their rules say, and applaud them for their harsh penalties.
lando356
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6/23/2018 5:16am
PTshox wrote:
This topic gets me so pissed. WADA is essentially a dictatorship that has the sole purpose of ending careers. They have more control over the athletes...
This topic gets me so pissed. WADA is essentially a dictatorship that has the sole purpose of ending careers. They have more control over the athletes in our sport than the sanctioning bodies do and NO ONE in the AMA/Feld gives a shit. It's an embarrassment to the sport and SHOULD be an embarrassment to someone in the AMA/Feld to allow an outside organization this much control over a sport you supposedly "manage."


This post above nails it. Way too much power with fools at the controls. Take back the control USA riders. If they are going to treat you like crap then band together. The promoters should (will) stand behind you... as you are the show. But show resolve. Don't bend. Take a stand. "We are not going to take it". Trump would fix this in three days... LOL.
hamncheeze wrote:
This attitude really chafes me. WADA is not a dictatorship. WADA is there to protect the clean athletes, and protect the interests of clean sport. And...
This attitude really chafes me. WADA is not a dictatorship. WADA is there to protect the clean athletes, and protect the interests of clean sport. And that matters. Many of WADA's execs are ex-Olympians, the ones who competed clean and continue now to work to better sport.

As a guy who raced a bicycle on the road at a decently high level, I unfortunately had the experience of finding out many years later that many of the guys I raced against and guys who beat me in my backyard were using EPO, HGH etc. I was a guy working a full-time job, and then trying to compete. I had some decent results in a couple of big races. I always thought none of the domestic pro riders in the early 2000s were doping.....that only went on in Europe, there was no money in North America, etc. Turns out I was wrong. Now, none of my results in said races were going to affect my life in any way, I was already in my 30s and non one was coming to hand me a pro contract. But when I slowly started to uncover all the guys who were doping in that time....yeah I was a bit bitter about it. But, I had friends who should have went to the Olympics on the MTB for Canada in 2004, but missed out because the guys who went were dopers. Those guys have way more reason to be bitter. Another friend missed out on the 2012 Olympics because a doper from that 2004 MTB team was now a road racer and got the nod to represent Canada, even though he never had to serve any suspension ever for his admissions to doping.

So this is why WADA and clean sport matter. When Jason Anderson hoists his #1 plate in Vegas, I'm happy to know he passed every drug test he had to take. Ditto for Herlings or Cairoli in MXGP. Or Marc Marquez in MotoGP. We all love a great race, a great battle, a great series. For me at least, part of loving that is knowing the athletic component of it is being done on an equal playing field.

I'm out.
Good Post! (:
slipdog
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6/23/2018 7:46am
Passed every test you say???



bsharkey
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6/23/2018 7:56am
I agree we dont need the FIM. If they are not giving SX financial support and no one really cares they use the title "world" when it really isnt.

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