Cone Valve forks

Monk wrote:

As mentioned, CV or Traxx suspension is only as good as its setup... Adding to that, even properly setup CV/Traxx suspension is all but useless if...

As mentioned, CV or Traxx suspension is only as good as its setup... Adding to that, even properly setup CV/Traxx suspension is all but useless if you aren't putting in the seat time... Commitment is everything... Only riding 1hr a week isn't going to produce any better results with or without CV/Traxx suspension. Suspension is just a small part of a much larger package. Physical, mental and emotional well-being, diet, exercise, practice, training, bike setup etc etc etc etc all play their parts...

Monk wrote:

As mentioned, CV or Traxx suspension is only as good as its setup... Adding to that, even properly setup CV/Traxx suspension is all but useless if...

As mentioned, CV or Traxx suspension is only as good as its setup... Adding to that, even properly setup CV/Traxx suspension is all but useless if you aren't putting in the seat time... Commitment is everything... Only riding 1hr a week isn't going to produce any better results with or without CV/Traxx suspension. Suspension is just a small part of a much larger package. Physical, mental and emotional well-being, diet, exercise, practice, training, bike setup etc etc etc etc all play their parts...

BobPA wrote:

Not everyone is going for a national title here bro.

Monk wrote:

All that fancy suspension for C class?

Monk wrote:

All that fancy suspension for C class?

Turbojez wrote:

Of course, why not?!

urbanlift707 wrote:

Vet weekend is filled with A-kit stuff at mammoth, I probably saw over 50 bikes with it. lol we're slow but can afford to look fast.

urbanlift707 wrote:

Vet weekend is filled with A-kit stuff at mammoth, I probably saw over 50 bikes with it. lol we're slow but can afford to look fast.

urbanlift707 wrote:

Vet weekend is filled with A-kit stuff at mammoth, I probably saw over 50 bikes with it. lol we're slow but can afford to look fast.

skypig wrote:

I'm about as slow as anyone. Really, I should stop racing. But that's the thing, I can race and be slow. Or I can stop racing...

I'm about as slow as anyone.
Really, I should stop racing. But that's the thing, I can race and be slow. Or I can stop racing. They are really my only two choices.

I wish I could've afforded the bikes/gear I have now when I was young, and winning races, but I couldn't.

I think the slowest rider can still benefit from the best suspension. My only hesitation with buying CV forks for MX would be that they might be designed to suit very fast riders, and by design, not be able to be set up plush enough for a slow vet. My suspension guy describes them as "aggressive".

Would they be "wasted on me"? Certainly by most measures - yes. But you could say that about every cent I spend on racing.

I've got the stock WP suspension on my Supermoto really good now (springs/re valve/ slightly shortened). I'm racing that on a little road race track this weekend. Suits my current fitness better. Unfortunately.

mark911 wrote:

All modern forks utilize the same basic two systems to produce damping, the base valve and mid valve. Although they both work to generate damping forces...

All modern forks utilize the same basic two systems to produce damping, the base valve and mid valve. Although they both work to generate damping forces, albeit differently, the application of those forces is slightly different and in my opinion this results in a different feel to the rider.

I’d describe mid valve damping as having a more firm/sticky feeling which tends to resist small amplitude or high frequency bumps but allows the forks to move on lower frequency higher energy bumps using a minimum of travel. In general the bike will use less travel, stay higher in the travel, stay more level (less dynamic pitching), and react faster but will transmit higher forces onto the rider. This damping favors control over comfort.

Due to hysteresis I’d describe base valve damping as having a more spongy or springy feeling with the forks more willing to freely move in response to the terrain (small bumps and ripples). In general the bike will use more of its travel, will rock forward and rearward easier (pitch), and react slower due to all this movement thus losing some feedback to the rider. However, the suspension will absorb better, and will transmit lower forces onto the rider. This damping favors comfort over control.

The mid valve bleed defines the starting point at which the two systems start to blend. The starting point being defined as a specific fork speed which is dictated primarily by the shape of the bump and secondarily by the speed of the motorcycle. Above this rate and the mid valve shim stack begins to act and restrict flow creating damping along with the base valve. Below this rate the base valve is doing all the damping work. An analogy with two stroke power band can be used. Think of the bleed as a tool which defines at what RPM (fork speed) the engine will come on the pipe. Think of the mid valve shim stack stiffness (resistance) as the tool which defines how hard (damping) the engine will hit once it comes on the pipe.

In general, the damping of a fork with a relatively large rod piston and a small rod will be overwhelmingly biased to mid valve type characteristics. The magnitude of this overall feeling being determined by the mid valve shim stack stiffness. Tuning can reduce the influence but never change it. A kit forks tend to be designed with mid valve bias dimensions.

In general, the damping of a fork with a relatively large rod and a small piston will be overwhelmingly biased to base valve type characteristics. The magnitude of this feeling is determined by the base valve shim stack stiffness. Tuning can reduce the influence but never change it. Forks purposed for normal off road riding tend to be designed with base valve bias dimensions.

To a degree the two systems are opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how they’ll feel to the rider with the system being a zero sum game. In other words, increasing one usually means a decrease in the other. The key to making any modern fork damping system work is to:

1) Chose the fork which dimensionally is bias towards the type of riding to be done.
2) Properly blend the two systems (they are never fully decoupled as one affects the other) so that the rider feels the right combination of comfort and control.

This will vary from rider to rider, bike to bike, fork to fork, track to track, so there is no one solution. Even within the constraint of one rider/bike/track it’s going to be a compromise.

SPYGUY wrote:

Read in another thread that the Trax shocks require frequent rebuilds because of the small trax springs breaking. Anyone have any experience with that?

SPYGUY wrote:

Read in another thread that the Trax shocks require frequent rebuilds because of the small trax springs breaking. Anyone have any experience with that?

bowser wrote:

Trax are over rated. Can get a stock shock working as good if not better. Also, you are correct, the little springs break way too easy...

Trax are over rated. Can get a stock shock working as good if not better. Also, you are correct, the little springs break way too easy. WP would have been better to fit beville spring stack rather than coil springs.

CV's on the other hand when revalved work amazing

SPYGUY wrote:

Read in another thread that the Trax shocks require frequent rebuilds because of the small trax springs breaking. Anyone have any experience with that?

bowser wrote:

Trax are over rated. Can get a stock shock working as good if not better. Also, you are correct, the little springs break way too easy...

Trax are over rated. Can get a stock shock working as good if not better. Also, you are correct, the little springs break way too easy. WP would have been better to fit beville spring stack rather than coil springs.

CV's on the other hand when revalved work amazing

bowser wrote:

Trax are over rated. Can get a stock shock working as good if not better. Also, you are correct, the little springs break way too easy...

Trax are over rated. Can get a stock shock working as good if not better. Also, you are correct, the little springs break way too easy. WP would have been better to fit beville spring stack rather than coil springs.

CV's on the other hand when revalved work amazing