Cone Valve forks

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7/17/2017 6:05 PM

I think that they are little bit overrated ! Some people think If they get CV"s the magic will happens and they will be so much better like riding on pillows! In my opinion the CV"s are good blink blink and better than most AER forks but good set of KYB SSF are just as good if not better!
What is your opinion on that?

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Born in Prague,living in LA,so if you don't like my spelling,blow me!

18 YZ450F
16 Yamaha YXZ 1000R
17 Yamaha MT-10 FZ-10 165 Hp RWP
06 CRF450X street legal supermoto
06 RM250 smoker
1992 CR250R basket case
2006 CRF50








7/17/2017 6:15 PM

Mine feel pretty magical. Never rode kyb ssf so I can't compare, but they are better than anything else I've ridden by far.

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7/17/2017 6:27 PM

urbanlift707 wrote:

Mine feel pretty magical. Never rode kyb ssf so I can't compare, but they are better than anything else I've ridden by far.

What bike u have them on ?

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Born in Prague,living in LA,so if you don't like my spelling,blow me!

18 YZ450F
16 Yamaha YXZ 1000R
17 Yamaha MT-10 FZ-10 165 Hp RWP
06 CRF450X street legal supermoto
06 RM250 smoker
1992 CR250R basket case
2006 CRF50








7/17/2017 6:34 PM

Photo

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7/17/2017 6:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/17/2017 11:16 PM

They were not magical at first though, I got them used off here so they were not set up for me. I tossed them on along with the traxx shock and after about 20 min and every clicker avail I pulled them off and put the stock stuff back on to finish the day. Race tech got them re spring and re valved and now they are amazing

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7/17/2017 6:46 PM

urbanlift707 wrote:

They were not magical at first though, I got them used off here so they were not set up for me. I tossed them on along with the traxx shock and after about 20 min and every clicker avail I pulled them off and put the stock stuff back on to finish the day. Race tech got them re spring and re valved and now they are amazing

Very nice set up, man!

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Born in Prague,living in LA,so if you don't like my spelling,blow me!

18 YZ450F
16 Yamaha YXZ 1000R
17 Yamaha MT-10 FZ-10 165 Hp RWP
06 CRF450X street legal supermoto
06 RM250 smoker
1992 CR250R basket case
2006 CRF50








7/17/2017 7:01 PM

They are only as good as you set them up and the feedback you give the tuner.

Mine are far beyond better than stock forks.

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7/17/2017 7:55 PM

Plenty of guys I've talked to have said , once you get the CV and Traxx stuff setup correctly.....they have felt better than most other A-kits out there. There is one guy on here that I've ridden with that said once he got his WP CV stuff dialed....he refuses to ride anything else.....they are that good. And he has other A-kits , including KYB.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

7/17/2017 7:57 PM

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

They are only as good as you set them up and the feedback you give the tuner.

Mine are far beyond better than stock forks.

Joe...I looked for you up at Washougal during the OTMX round up there. I had no luck.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

7/17/2017 8:56 PM

Everybody I talk to says that the CV and Trax shock are the best suspension they have ridden even better than 10,000 Showa A-kit and WP stuff is only 5,000, but the stuff has to be setup up for you of course!

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7/17/2017 9:24 PM

"bling bling" is what you were looking for there...

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/17/2017 10:45 PM

It's almost like someone should get all the a kits together and have a shootout. It would be even better if they were a well spoken test rider who has done an excellent job of testing and articulating feedback on bike test these past years. Then they can post a pic of all the sexy components together to get us all excited..... ML I've literally been checking the home page every day in anticipation, how is the testing coming along?

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7/17/2017 11:10 PM

urbanlift707 wrote:

It's almost like someone should get all the a kits together and have a shootout. It would be even better if they were a well spoken test rider who has done an excellent job of testing and articulating feedback on bike test these past years. Then they can post a pic of all the sexy components together to get us all excited..... ML I've literally been checking the home page every day in anticipation, how is the testing coming along?

I believe ML512 is making that happen as we speak, should be here soon! Can't wait to read and hear his take on a-kits. Even if he can't bottom them out wink

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7/18/2017 6:01 AM

I had a 16 KX 450 and now have a 17 and I went from the stock TAC forks to a very nice pair of Enzo set up KYB SSS forks to a pair of CVs. On a scale where 0 is the baseline of the TAC fork, I would say the KYB were +5 over the baseline and the CVs were probably +3 or 4 over the KYBs.

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7/18/2017 7:40 AM

The cone valves are amazing on the KTM. I had Showa A kit on my last bike, kx450f. My comparison so far would be that the cone valves are more plush through small chatter and track the ground really well, and I'd give the Showa a kit the edge when it came to hard landings off a big jump. I only have a few hours dialing in these cone valves and I'm still on a bone stock shock as well. The forks are incredible and really looking forward to continue dialing them in and getting the shock out to powerband for a revalve. I'm taking everyone's advice (including Powerband..) and not dropping the dough on a Trax shock. I did ride a buddies bike with the Trax/cone valve combo and it was like riding on butter. Amazing.

ML a kit review is going to be a fun read when it comes out.

Thread is worthless without pics!

Photo

Photo

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7/18/2017 11:45 AM

urbanlift707 wrote:

It's almost like someone should get all the a kits together and have a shootout. It would be even better if they were a well spoken test rider who has done an excellent job of testing and articulating feedback on bike test these past years. Then they can post a pic of all the sexy components together to get us all excited..... ML I've literally been checking the home page every day in anticipation, how is the testing coming along?

Turbojez wrote:

I believe ML512 is making that happen as we speak, should be here soon! Can't wait to read and hear his take on a-kits. Even if he can't bottom them out wink

Your not bottoming A-kit unless your A-class level speed wise or decide to jump mountains. Anyways the CV forks must be used with Trax shock no Frankenstein suspension or results will be unfavorable. Review of all modern, recent A-kits would be awesome. It's too bad 52mm Cone Valve forks are not available thinking about using my buddy who has pro license to purchase a set under his name since WP is forced to sell to pros because they run them in the 250 class.

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7/18/2017 11:48 AM

Read in another thread that the Trax shocks require frequent rebuilds because of the small trax springs breaking. Anyone have any experience with that?

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7/18/2017 11:53 AM

SPYGUY wrote:

Read in another thread that the Trax shocks require frequent rebuilds because of the small trax springs breaking. Anyone have any experience with that?

I have a Trax shock and the service is the same recommendation interval. Id imagine anyone using kit suspension will get it serviced every 25 hours. The more preventive mantance, the longer they will last.

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7/18/2017 1:24 PM

xr70 wrote:

I think that they are little bit overrated ! Some people think If they get CV"s the magic will happens and they will be so much better like riding on pillows! In my opinion the CV"s are good blink blink and better than most AER forks but good set of KYB SSF are just as good if not better!
What is your opinion on that?

SSS*

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7/18/2017 1:51 PM

urbanlift707 wrote:

It's almost like someone should get all the a kits together and have a shootout. It would be even better if they were a well spoken test rider who has done an excellent job of testing and articulating feedback on bike test these past years. Then they can post a pic of all the sexy components together to get us all excited..... ML I've literally been checking the home page every day in anticipation, how is the testing coming along?

Turbojez wrote:

I believe ML512 is making that happen as we speak, should be here soon! Can't wait to read and hear his take on a-kits. Even if he can't bottom them out wink

trailmaster wrote:

Your not bottoming A-kit unless your A-class level speed wise or decide to jump mountains. Anyways the CV forks must be used with Trax shock no Frankenstein suspension or results will be unfavorable. Review of all modern, recent A-kits would be awesome. It's too bad 52mm Cone Valve forks are not available thinking about using my buddy who has pro license to purchase a set under his name since WP is forced to sell to pros because they run them in the 250 class.

it is not only about buying them. you need a service agreement for parts. for example lower fork legs are aluminum and should be changed every other year....

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7/18/2017 3:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/18/2017 3:56 PM

urbanlift707 wrote:

It's almost like someone should get all the a kits together and have a shootout. It would be even better if they were a well spoken test rider who has done an excellent job of testing and articulating feedback on bike test these past years. Then they can post a pic of all the sexy components together to get us all excited..... ML I've literally been checking the home page every day in anticipation, how is the testing coming along?

Turbojez wrote:

I believe ML512 is making that happen as we speak, should be here soon! Can't wait to read and hear his take on a-kits. Even if he can't bottom them out wink

trailmaster wrote:

Your not bottoming A-kit unless your A-class level speed wise or decide to jump mountains. Anyways the CV forks must be used with Trax shock no Frankenstein suspension or results will be unfavorable. Review of all modern, recent A-kits would be awesome. It's too bad 52mm Cone Valve forks are not available thinking about using my buddy who has pro license to purchase a set under his name since WP is forced to sell to pros because they run them in the 250 class.

You're funny. Not bottoming an A kit unless your an A rider? Send me your info because you've got the knowledge bro. I'd also like to send my rear wheel to you for a sprocket bolt torque check.

For what it's worth I was ready give up and sell my 16 kx450 but after some used PC a kit I bolted up, couldn't tune with clickers, then sent to them to be set up for me, couldn't be happier. Ole trusty yz250 has sat in the corner since.

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7/18/2017 4:00 PM

dmm698 wrote:

You're funny. Not bottoming an A kit unless your an A rider? Send me your info because you've got the knowledge bro. I'd also like to send my rear wheel to you for a sprocket bolt torque check.

For what it's worth I was ready give up and sell my 16 kx450 but after some used PC a kit I bolted up, couldn't tune with clickers, then sent to them to be set up for me, couldn't be happier. Ole trusty yz250 has sat in the corner since.

It's the same dude who went after me saying I couldn't bottom A-kits because I wasn't pro. I think he's on his sixth or seventh account now.

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7/18/2017 4:26 PM

trailmaster wrote:

Your not bottoming A-kit unless your A-class level speed wise or decide to jump mountains. Anyways the CV forks must be used with Trax shock no Frankenstein suspension or results will be unfavorable. Review of all modern, recent A-kits would be awesome. It's too bad 52mm Cone Valve forks are not available thinking about using my buddy who has pro license to purchase a set under his name since WP is forced to sell to pros because they run them in the 250 class.

dmm698 wrote:

You're funny. Not bottoming an A kit unless your an A rider? Send me your info because you've got the knowledge bro. I'd also like to send my rear wheel to you for a sprocket bolt torque check.

For what it's worth I was ready give up and sell my 16 kx450 but after some used PC a kit I bolted up, couldn't tune with clickers, then sent to them to be set up for me, couldn't be happier. Ole trusty yz250 has sat in the corner since.

ML512 wrote:

It's the same dude who went after me saying I couldn't bottom A-kits because I wasn't pro. I think he's on his sixth or seventh account now.

Haha, i'm starting to like this guy laughing

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7/18/2017 4:53 PM

ML512 wrote:

It's the same dude who went after me saying I couldn't bottom A-kits because I wasn't pro. I think he's on his sixth or seventh account now.

I was wondering if that was the same guy. As soon as I read "can't bottom A kit unless you're a pro jumping a mountain" I stopped reading, all credibility lost.

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7/18/2017 4:55 PM

SPYGUY wrote:

Read in another thread that the Trax shocks require frequent rebuilds because of the small trax springs breaking. Anyone have any experience with that?

Yup, I had 15 hrs on my Trax and I felt something wasn't right with it. I sent it to Powerband and all of my springs but one were broken.

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7/18/2017 5:07 PM

I have CV's on my 350. They're good, but nothing special. I think they need to be set up for me. Who should I send them too? I ride Moto and desert Thanks

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7/18/2017 5:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/18/2017 5:13 PM

All modern forks utilize the same basic two systems to produce damping, the base valve and mid valve. Although they both work to generate damping forces, albeit differently, the application of those forces is slightly different and in my opinion this results in a different feel to the rider.

I’d describe mid valve damping as having a more firm/sticky feeling which tends to resist small amplitude or high frequency bumps but allows the forks to move on lower frequency higher energy bumps using a minimum of travel. In general the bike will use less travel, stay higher in the travel, stay more level (less dynamic pitching), and react faster but will transmit higher forces onto the rider. This damping favors control over comfort.

Due to hysteresis I’d describe base valve damping as having a more spongy or springy feeling with the forks more willing to freely move in response to the terrain (small bumps and ripples). In general the bike will use more of its travel, will rock forward and rearward easier (pitch), and react slower due to all this movement thus losing some feedback to the rider. However, the suspension will absorb better, and will transmit lower forces onto the rider. This damping favors comfort over control.

The mid valve bleed defines the starting point at which the two systems start to blend. The starting point being defined as a specific fork speed which is dictated primarily by the shape of the bump and secondarily by the speed of the motorcycle. Above this rate and the mid valve shim stack begins to act and restrict flow creating damping along with the base valve. Below this rate the base valve is doing all the damping work. An analogy with two stroke power band can be used. Think of the bleed as a tool which defines at what RPM (fork speed) the engine will come on the pipe. Think of the mid valve shim stack stiffness (resistance) as the tool which defines how hard (damping) the engine will hit once it comes on the pipe.

In general, the damping of a fork with a relatively large rod piston and a small rod will be overwhelmingly biased to mid valve type characteristics. The magnitude of this overall feeling being determined by the mid valve shim stack stiffness. Tuning can reduce the influence but never change it. A kit forks tend to be designed with mid valve bias dimensions.

In general, the damping of a fork with a relatively large rod and a small piston will be overwhelmingly biased to base valve type characteristics. The magnitude of this feeling is determined by the base valve shim stack stiffness. Tuning can reduce the influence but never change it. Forks purposed for normal off road riding tend to be designed with base valve bias dimensions.

To a degree the two systems are opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how they’ll feel to the rider with the system being a zero sum game. In other words, increasing one usually means a decrease in the other. The key to making any modern fork damping system work is to:

1) Chose the fork which dimensionally is bias towards the type of riding to be done.
2) Properly blend the two systems (they are never fully decoupled as one affects the other) so that the rider feels the right combination of comfort and control.

This will vary from rider to rider, bike to bike, fork to fork, track to track, so there is no one solution. Even within the constraint of one rider/bike/track it’s going to be a compromise.

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Retired Mechanical Engineer, published technical writer, mscperformance.com, Bisimotoengineering.com,

7/18/2017 5:23 PM

groggylbc wrote:

I have CV's on my 350. They're good, but nothing special. I think they need to be set up for me. Who should I send them too? I ride Moto and desert Thanks

Factory connection does great work.

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7/18/2017 5:52 PM

Turbojez wrote:

I believe ML512 is making that happen as we speak, should be here soon! Can't wait to read and hear his take on a-kits. Even if he can't bottom them out wink

trailmaster wrote:

Your not bottoming A-kit unless your A-class level speed wise or decide to jump mountains. Anyways the CV forks must be used with Trax shock no Frankenstein suspension or results will be unfavorable. Review of all modern, recent A-kits would be awesome. It's too bad 52mm Cone Valve forks are not available thinking about using my buddy who has pro license to purchase a set under his name since WP is forced to sell to pros because they run them in the 250 class.

dmm698 wrote:

You're funny. Not bottoming an A kit unless your an A rider? Send me your info because you've got the knowledge bro. I'd also like to send my rear wheel to you for a sprocket bolt torque check.

For what it's worth I was ready give up and sell my 16 kx450 but after some used PC a kit I bolted up, couldn't tune with clickers, then sent to them to be set up for me, couldn't be happier. Ole trusty yz250 has sat in the corner since.

Wow you must be so fast maybe you can beat Lindsey barely....

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7/18/2017 6:46 PM

As mentioned, CV or Traxx suspension is only as good as its setup... Adding to that, even properly setup CV/Traxx suspension is all but useless if you aren't putting in the seat time... Commitment is everything... Only riding 1hr a week isn't going to produce any better results with or without CV/Traxx suspension. Suspension is just a small part of a much larger package. Physical, mental and emotional well-being, diet, exercise, practice, training, bike setup etc etc etc etc all play their parts...

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