CR 500 AF help?

mc795
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Edited Date/Time 5/16/2016 11:44pm
Hi everyone, I'm trading my 2011 gas gas ec 300 for a CR500af this week. Before I get it I'm asking for a few tips and maybe some help. The CR is a 1998 cr250 frame with a 2001 CR500 motor. It comes with a few extras and has a reshaped cumbustion chamber. Does anyone happen to know a good starting procedure or any technique. And does anyone know what a Rocky Mountain clutch kit does with steel seperator plates. Thanks!
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C-Rock
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5/2/2016 8:59am
First gen aluminium frame, by far the worst chassis you can get.
If you want a 500 CR AF, get one with a CRF frame.
plynn41
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Jonesboro, AR US
5/2/2016 9:16am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 9:17am
Ok, I'll answer the question Smile
FIRST, the two most important factors in starting the CR500 (other than the general internal condition of the engine), are 1) the carburetor idle jet, and 2) the ignition system.

I've had 500s with the original ('88) ignition system and with a '97 CR250R ignition system. While I could start either one, the later digital ignitions start much easier and idle better.

If your idle jet is very much too fat or too lean, you're going to need a strong leg with some stamina to get it started, and might not get it started at all if you're more than 1 size off either direction.

If the engine is in good internal condition, and the carburetor is jetted correctly, this was my procedure for a cold start.

1) Put on boots
2) 5-7 slow kicks to draw fresh fuel into the engine
3) Choke on, kicker indexed just barely past TDC. Now one solid kick all the way through. My bike started on the first kick 90% of the time.

When the engine is warmed up, skip step two and leave the choke off.
5/2/2016 9:42am
My buddy has a CR500af. Bike is a blast to ride and I've got the itch to get one. It's a 2004 CR 250F frame and I believe a 86 engine. Cold starts suck but once it's warm all it takes is a good strong kick or two



shanes
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5/2/2016 9:49am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 9:59am
I have a 97 in 2014 TM frame , starts no problem with decomp head , also fitted the Magua hydraulic clutch conversion its very light and smooth





The Shop

Cygnus
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5/2/2016 10:06am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 10:08am
shanes wrote:
I have a 97 in 2014 TM frame , starts no problem with decomp head , also fitted the Magua hydraulic clutch conversion its very light...
I have a 97 in 2014 TM frame , starts no problem with decomp head , also fitted the Magua hydraulic clutch conversion its very light and smooth





Nice!


My 89 500 was pretty easy to start. I always leaned it over on its side till fuel came out the overflow if it had been a while since it ran. As far as the 98 frame I would proably pass and lol for 2004 or newer frame. Ridden a couple service Honda conversions. Look out for the home built machines some are done right some are hacks.
mc795
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5/2/2016 10:12am
shanes wrote:
I have a 97 in 2014 TM frame , starts no problem with decomp head , also fitted the Magua hydraulic clutch conversion its very light...
I have a 97 in 2014 TM frame , starts no problem with decomp head , also fitted the Magua hydraulic clutch conversion its very light and smooth





Cygnus wrote:
Nice! My 89 500 was pretty easy to start. I always leaned it over on its side till fuel came out the overflow if it had...
Nice!


My 89 500 was pretty easy to start. I always leaned it over on its side till fuel came out the overflow if it had been a while since it ran. As far as the 98 frame I would proably pass and lol for 2004 or newer frame. Ridden a couple service Honda conversions. Look out for the home built machines some are done right some are hacks.
So how do I know if it's a "hack" any tell tales? Definetly don't want to do a bum trade!
mc795
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5/2/2016 10:20am
C-Rock wrote:
First gen aluminium frame, by far the worst chassis you can get.
If you want a 500 CR AF, get one with a CRF frame.
Oh okay I had not known this. I understand that the plastics become updated for the 2004+ CRF frames. But that doesn't really concern me. Other than cosmetic is there any actual problems or concerns with the first generation frame?
Dtat720
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5/2/2016 10:25am
That frame is extremely rigid and likes to kick the rear end up every chance it gets. Take the others advice and dont trade, hold out for a crf framed conversion.
shanes
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5/2/2016 10:27am
the first gen frames are extremely stiff , they don't handle well and vibrations will not be fun also suspension is very out dated you won't to be on the 2007/2008 minimum unless you want to spend a lot on suspension to get it to handle at least half decent .

there a lot for sale in the usa spend some time and find a good one also check were the frame has been welded and look for any crack etc
Hallzilla
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5/2/2016 10:35am
I'll answer your question ...... Don't do it ! Quite possibly the worst frame ever put into production.
mc795
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5/2/2016 10:35am
Okay thanks for your replies I have a lot to think about. I'm not racing motocross I'm racing harescrambles so I'll have to see if that frame will take all the abuse. We'll see.
Moto_Geek
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5/2/2016 10:50am
Even more reason to not get it. A long hare scramble race, you arms will be numb from vibration. Seriously, you are going to hate it. Reason he will trade it for almost any other bike. Just going hill climbing is the only reason I would consider that trade.
C-Rock
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5/2/2016 11:05am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 11:29am
This one was mine... I had a great time with it, but in all honesty, my '93 steel framed was far better (just like your Gas Gas is)...
The only good thing about these frames was that the engine slid in real easily...
For the rest, it sure improved my suspension tuning skills.
In my memory, the unpredictable overall handling and supertanker front end geometry were far worse than the global stiffness...
Tons of work on settings, offset and front height to get to end up with something average at best.
Oh, did I mention we had to reweld the upper subframe mount every six months, no matter how we reinforced it?
Wink
Probably due to the single radiator, also got steamy real quick in the woods. Had to install a fan to cure it.





C-Rock
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5/2/2016 11:24am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 11:30am
BTW...
Never had a starting problem with any of my 500 CRs. Pass the comp and give a steady kick.
Oh, and no flipflops or sneakers.
Laughing
Far easier than most 450s IMO...
The clutch steel plates are cheaper, last longer and are supposed to give a little more inertia and smooth out the power, the same way a flywheel weight does. Unnoticeable for the common mortal.
blusmbl
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5/2/2016 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 1:37pm
Cygnus wrote:
Nice! My 89 500 was pretty easy to start. I always leaned it over on its side till fuel came out the overflow if it had...
Nice!


My 89 500 was pretty easy to start. I always leaned it over on its side till fuel came out the overflow if it had been a while since it ran. As far as the 98 frame I would proably pass and lol for 2004 or newer frame. Ridden a couple service Honda conversions. Look out for the home built machines some are done right some are hacks.
Agree with everything here. If mine had sat for a few weeks I would turn the gas on, lean the bike over until fuel dribbled out from the overflow vent hoses. 1-2 slow kicks with the choke on and kill switch on, then one real solid kick after it clears the compression relief (you'll feel it). I could start it in tennis shoes with no issues.

I also would much rather have a steel framed 500 instead of a '98 conversion. As others mentioned, any 2000-up Honda frame is a much better choice for a swap.
C-Rock
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5/2/2016 1:44pm
"If mine had sat for a few weeks I would turn the gas on, lean the bike over until fuel dribbled out from the overflow vent hoses. 1-2 slow kicks with the choke on and kill switch on"

There's another efficient trick which requires even less energy: put it in first gear and rock it back and forth. Then back to neutral and kick.
HenryA
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5/2/2016 1:48pm
For a 2011 EC300? Bro, don't do it.
mc795
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5/2/2016 6:20pm
Here's pictures of it. And my gas gas.





cmotodad
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5/2/2016 8:22pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 8:23pm
A good CR500/AF can be made from a 2002-2007 CR250 frame. I did a few 125, 250f and 250 2stroke conversions. I can do a CR250 gen3 frame with no cutting the rails or Y. Just the upper motor mount. Good platform, easy airbox and tank fitment and easy to dial in.
vetmxr
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5/2/2016 8:52pm
I shudder thinking about that motor in that frame..........I would not get that bike even if it was brand new.....
xr70
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5/2/2016 9:25pm
I am still having nightmares after owning 98 CR250 and that has been like 18 years go !
C-Rock
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5/2/2016 10:31pm
Moto_Geek wrote:
[b]Even more reason to not get it. A long hare scramble race, you arms will be numb from vibration. Seriously, you are going to hate it...
Even more reason to not get it. A long hare scramble race, you arms will be numb from vibration. Seriously, you are going to hate it. Reason he will trade it for almost any other bike. Just going hill climbing is the only reason I would consider that trade.
That's good, since it already has a hillclimbing swingarm, lol!
Can't believe how much it was lengthened...
Sure it's gonna get the handling even better!
Dry
Cancerman
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5/2/2016 10:32pm
I rolled my RM500AF out today, has not been started in 6 weeks. Turn on the gas(after you put some in the tank), pull the choke, lean it over until you see it drip, slow kick once or twice to charge the carb and reed, one good kick in sturdy shoes or boots, fires every time. My motor is an 87, no decompression stuff. PWK 39.5 carb, PC exhaust, 13 oz flywheel weight. A total blast.

C-Rock
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5/2/2016 10:33pm
mc795 wrote:
So how do I know if it's a "hack" any tell tales? Definetly don't want to do a bum trade!
You're about to. Get away while you can.
Wink
cwtoyota
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5/2/2016 11:59pm
vetmxr wrote:
I shudder thinking about that motor in that frame..........I would not get that bike even if it was brand new.....
Exactly my thoughts... I had that 1998 CR250R back in the day and it didn't handle all that great with the smooth running 250cc engine in it. More power, more weight and more vibration isn't going to improve anything on that bike.
Bearuno
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5/3/2016 12:04am
Keep your Gas Gas. Great bikes, especially later 300s.

In late 97, I did 5 AF conversions using the first generation AF frames for a group of friends.They could be done in an easy day in my workshop. Within a few months, 4 had gone back to their steelies. The steelies were Far better Bikes, at that time, and, for the next few years AF Honda chassis. I still prefer my steel frame, over even later AFs, though, I've had it from new in 2003 ( OZ CRE 500, near the last one out of the warehouse), and, it is very heavily modified to suite me, and only me. Though, all of my mates love riding it. They collectively call it the PW500......

They , gen 1 and 2 AFs, weren't much chop , to put it mildy, and, you need also to consider just how bloody old a 98 is. I still get blokes wanting me to do conversions - I've generally said No, as I have far better things to do. But, last year I had 3 close friends corner me into doing conversions. 2 I sent away with orders to find far later / healthier doner Bikes than they turned up with. Never forget, even a last year Gen 3, a very good basis for a conversion, can have had near 10 years of hard service / neglect.
C-Rock
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5/3/2016 2:31am
Oh, and I'm sure you've noticed if you get it and don't like it, it's gonna be easy to sell.
Laughing
C-Rock
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5/3/2016 2:37am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 2:39am
cwtoyota wrote:
Exactly my thoughts... I had that 1998 CR250R back in the day and it didn't handle all that great with the smooth running 250cc engine in...
Exactly my thoughts... I had that 1998 CR250R back in the day and it didn't handle all that great with the smooth running 250cc engine in it. More power, more weight and more vibration isn't going to improve anything on that bike.
It actually kinda did, surprisingly.
Still not great by any means...
And it sure did vibrate a lot, even with a balanced crank.

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