Buying in support of our sport

Cool.

I pay full price. RMs discount + RM cash is full price.

Most people will spend what they can afford to spend/live to their means, the only thing that changes is what they can get for that amount.

kb228 wrote:

I pay full price. RMs discount + RM cash is full price.

Rocky Mountain Everything! I love that place. I ordered parts at 5:30p eastern on a Thursday and had them on my doorstep by 3pm eastern on Friday. Crazy fast.

I rarely pay attention to prices unless it’s a new bike!

Hard to justify most retail prices when you know what it takes to make the parts. I own a CNC shop, I can make most everything on the market. Take axle blocks for example, even using 7075, machined, anodized, and etched, total cost is roughly $5-6. Retail is $40-60 depending on brand. I get it, people will pay it so thats the price. But its also kind of screwing the people who support you. In this sport, the customer isnt a desk jockey for the most part so they can see that aspect to an extent. Hence the, “I’m not paying that price for that part.”

I respect your sentiment, and if everyone held that view, the world would be a better place.

I look at things differently. If I can pay $8k for a new CRF450, and not $9k, that is 1k that I can give to someone in my family who is struggling, something I often do. It's a market based economy and I will purchase from the seller who gives me the best service and prices. This is RMATV 90% of the time, because their loyalty program is good and their service is excellent, even though Partzilla often undercuts them.

I agree that costs have spiraled in the last decade, as aside from the higher purchase price these days, the bikes (read engines - i.e. 250F) are worn out a lot more quickly, feeding the purchase of another new bike at a higher cost than in the past. Gone are the days where if you wanted to save money, you could refresh your two stroke easily and cheaply enough, never mind a 500 which would last forever. But, when I look around the pits in England they are full of plumbers, electricians and plasterers vans, the 'working man' if you will. This is because despite the cost increases, motocross is still the most accessible form of Motorsport. Car racing, never mind boat racing, is a whole other level.

Dtat720 wrote:

Hard to justify most retail prices when you know what it takes to make the parts. I own a CNC shop, I can make most everything on the market. Take axle blocks for example, even using 7075, machined, anodized, and etched, total cost is roughly $5-6. Retail is $40-60 depending on brand. I get it, people will pay it so thats the price. But its also kind of screwing the people who support you. In this sport, the customer isnt a desk jockey for the most part so they can see that aspect to an extent. Hence the, “I’m not paying that price for that part.”

So does your cost estimate include your overhead? I’m pretty sure CNC machines are kinda expensive, plus your building, labor, insurance, taxes, advertising, etc?

Dtat720 wrote:

Hard to justify most retail prices when you know what it takes to make the parts. I own a CNC shop, I can make most everything on the market. Take axle blocks for example, even using 7075, machined, anodized, and etched, total cost is roughly $5-6. Retail is $40-60 depending on brand. I get it, people will pay it so thats the price. But its also kind of screwing the people who support you. In this sport, the customer isnt a desk jockey for the most part so they can see that aspect to an extent. Hence the, “I’m not paying that price for that part.”

Spooner wrote:

So does your cost estimate include your overhead? I’m pretty sure CNC machines are kinda expensive, plus your building, labor, insurance, taxes, advertising, etc?

Plus packaging, plus shipping, plus national advertising, plus sponsorship to get the product known, plus distributors profit, plus shipping, plus retailers profit, plus shipping... Sure a machine can turn em out for pennies, but the total cost of getting it out there and on the end users bike is quite complicated.

If you define "full price" as "asking price," then that's a non-starter.

I pay "market price" for everything. Every day. Without apologies. That's how the world works.

I’m cheap and live in capalist America, so I’m always going to look for the best price. I actually just bought a JGR factory cap yesterday. I couldn’t justify spending $37 total for the hat but it was on sale for $20 so with shipping it came out to $27. That seemed like a good price to me so I bought it.

Although they should be paying ME to wear it since it’s blasted with advertisements. I’m basically going to be a walking billboard every time I wear it lol. But I digress.

kkawboy14 wrote:

I rarely pay attention to prices unless it’s a new bike!

Thug life!

What's the problem with people only buyig a certain issue? At the end of the day you're still supporting the company.

This.
Edit: This was supposed to quote Bruneval

I’m 27 with a wife and two kids, so for me every penny saved helps me to be able to get out and ride and to support my local track. I’d buy more from the local shop if he actually carried what I needed, but he doesn’t, takes him over 3 days to get parts that I do need and he is more expensive. Ordering Fromm RM, I save gas because I have it shipped straight to me for free if I spend over $75, I earn rm bucks which helps me to buy more parts when I need them, I get my order in two days and I get it for cheaper. I’m on a tight riding budget and every little bit helps me to go ride more. I’m going to save everywhere I possibly can, otherwise I wouldn’t be riding and wouldn’t helping to support anyone in the industry.

No vendor is under any obligation to sell me anything for one red cent less than he or she will agree to do. Why on Earth should I pay more?

Dtat720 wrote:

Hard to justify most retail prices when you know what it takes to make the parts. I own a CNC shop, I can make most everything on the market. Take axle blocks for example, even using 7075, machined, anodized, and etched, total cost is roughly $5-6. Retail is $40-60 depending on brand. I get it, people will pay it so thats the price. But its also kind of screwing the people who support you. In this sport, the customer isnt a desk jockey for the most part so they can see that aspect to an extent. Hence the, “I’m not paying that price for that part.”

Spooner wrote:

So does your cost estimate include your overhead? I’m pretty sure CNC machines are kinda expensive, plus your building, labor, insurance, taxes, advertising, etc?

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Plus packaging, plus shipping, plus national advertising, plus sponsorship to get the product known, plus distributors profit, plus shipping, plus retailers profit, plus shipping... Sure a machine can turn em out for pennies, but the total cost of getting it out there and on the end users bike is quite complicated.

Price i quoted is a shipped price as a manufacturer. But, having my own product line of bicycle parts, i know from start to finish what the costs involved are. For me to manufacture, package, advertise, I could still sell at a VERY healthy profit at a price under $30. As for sponsorships, not everyone sponsors with cash, those that do, deal in major volume or medium volume spread over many products under that brand.

Yes, cnc’s are expensive. I have 23 of them only 4 are more than 10 years old. All of them are paid for. Overhead is a variable dependent on the business situation. My overhead is low. Building is paid for, machines are paid for, tooling is paid for, nothing is financed.

Dtat720 wrote:

Hard to justify most retail prices when you know what it takes to make the parts. I own a CNC shop, I can make most everything on the market. Take axle blocks for example, even using 7075, machined, anodized, and etched, total cost is roughly $5-6. Retail is $40-60 depending on brand. I get it, people will pay it so thats the price. But its also kind of screwing the people who support you. In this sport, the customer isnt a desk jockey for the most part so they can see that aspect to an extent. Hence the, “I’m not paying that price for that part.”

I couldn't agree more. Markup on parts is outrageous.

If I need or want a product and can afford it, I buy it. If a business gives me a t shirt or hat when I purchase something, I will wear it, but I do my damn best not to pay a company for a shirt or hat with ads and/or logos to advertise for them.

observeroffacts wrote:

It’s no surprise that our sport consists mostly of middle and upper middle class folks. Motocross is not cheap. So when I see people say things like “Is it worth paying for that issue of the magazine”. Or “I don’t want to pay to ______”. Or even “My local parts guy doesn’t give me enough of a discount” etc it makes me take a step back.

I’m an artist by trade. I make a living doing and selling art, and in return for being lucky enough to do so, I buy art every chance I get. Paying it forward in some regard. This is very common in my line of work. Taking the money you made and putting it back into the culture.

Buying magazines, paying full price for a pair of grips, and not trying to undercut people who make a living running a local track is a great place to start. I think the mentality of bartering is common among motor sports because it’s a lifestyle where there is a lot of buying and selling. The ability to tell your friends you didn’t pay full price for a used bike or an exhaust or new tires etc starts to outweigh the fact that taking care of people in the sport you love helps it grow and survive.


SUMMARY: Pay full price for things in the sport you love. It’s very likely your bartering/discount wanting mentality is detrimental to its existence and many people’s livelihood. Buy more magazines. Support motocross.

No I wont spend like I have more money then sense. Theses companies don't support the sport. They support themselves. Being so much of a delusional consumer to think otherwise is retarded. The concept that the sport is "a good ole boys club and if you aint rich you aint part of it" is why the fewer and fewer people are joining it.

I don't give a rat's @ss what anyone thinks about my raggedy riding gear, beat ass 16 year old YZ250 or my bland looking 20 year old KX500. Its what I got. Its reliable. Its how I roll. I can't count the number of times pricks with shiny orange bikes flip me sh%t at the trailhead at the beginning of a ride only to be skulking around looking down kicking the dust at the end of the ride because they got schooled in spending $12,000 to go dirt biking don't mean sh$t when its all for show.

If I need a new part I choose quality and reliability over bling then sort by price. Almost always that means going OEM though I do buy a few aftermarket parts if the quality and price is there. Whoever has the lowest price online for a given part gets my business. If a used part fits the need then I buy used. Same goes for clothing. If I find something new on closeout or used for 50% or less of retail that doesn't stink I am buying it. A lot of times I will go used just based on the fact that no matter how shiny a new part is, several hours after installation its just another used part anyway.

The only times I bite the bullet and pay too much are times when I need a specialty part or something that is only offered from domestic boutique manufacturers. That is the only time I won't complain about a high price as parts like that need to follow the law of supply and demand since they rarely sell. In situations like that I buy directly from the manufacturer. The companies that sell junk being manufactured in China, getting an American logo stamped on it to be sold for 10-20 times what its worth because "you bro, support the sport" can get f%ct. I am done getting burned on overpriced products.

As for the dealers no, I am not supporting them. Here is why: I am not interested in stuffing cash into the pockets of corporate stock holders to buy an new overpriced dirt bike. There isn't an ounce of technology that has been created in the past 20 years worth investing in from a recreational standpoint. I can understand an up and coming racer or a factory team needing bleeding edge technology as they are in it to win it. The average rider though gets nothing from a new bike besides placebo effect from shiny plastic, bells and whistles. I can kind of understand where picking up a new bike on closeout makes sense if a rider doesn't maintain their bike and pays others to do so. If a rider maintains their own bike however then there really isn't a point in a new bike as its gonna be used and needing maintenance in 10 hour intervals no matter what.

As for parts from the dealer its another no from me. The only time I will buy parts from a dealer is if I am in a pinch, they have the part I need in stock and I can pick it up today. Maybe its because I live in a big city but dealers are crap for ordering parts. It takes 2-3 weeks for what is almost always an overpriced part to be ordered from a dealer who acts like they are doing the customer a favor ordering the part. Why would I go through that when I can have the same part for less money in 3-5 days by ordering online? I have no idea why parts ordering from a dealer has gotten to be this bad in the modern age. Only thing that comes to mind is that dealer's hate selling parts because it means old bikes stay running and new bikes don't get sold. This seems to make sense since the industry markets nothing besides bikes that are designed to be thrown away because maintenance is too high priced on them.

SUMMARY: No I wont spend like I have more money then sense. Whichever business supports me with good prices and a quality product gets my money. The "good ole boys" and their "buddies that support the sport" by selling overpriced goods can cry all they want. I don't care about them just like they don't care about me and the rest of the average consumers that are the true backbone of the "the sport."

Spooner wrote:

So does your cost estimate include your overhead? I’m pretty sure CNC machines are kinda expensive, plus your building, labor, insurance, taxes, advertising, etc?

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Plus packaging, plus shipping, plus national advertising, plus sponsorship to get the product known, plus distributors profit, plus shipping, plus retailers profit, plus shipping... Sure a machine can turn em out for pennies, but the total cost of getting it out there and on the end users bike is quite complicated.

Dtat720 wrote:

Price i quoted is a shipped price as a manufacturer. But, having my own product line of bicycle parts, i know from start to finish what the costs involved are. For me to manufacture, package, advertise, I could still sell at a VERY healthy profit at a price under $30. As for sponsorships, not everyone sponsors with cash, those that do, deal in major volume or medium volume spread over many products under that brand.

Yes, cnc’s are expensive. I have 23 of them only 4 are more than 10 years old. All of them are paid for. Overhead is a variable dependent on the business situation. My overhead is low. Building is paid for, machines are paid for, tooling is paid for, nothing is financed.

And if you can make it at $5-6 in America, the big name thats getting $40-60 outsourced it to China and theyre only paying $1-2. The fact is retail markup is insane in the MX parts/accessories world.

Manco wrote:

No I wont spend like I have more money then sense. Theses companies don't support the sport. They support themselves. Being so much of a delusional consumer to think otherwise is retarded. The concept that the sport is "a good ole boys club and if you aint rich you aint part of it" is why the fewer and fewer people are joining it.

I don't give a rat's @ss what anyone thinks about my raggedy riding gear, beat ass 16 year old YZ250 or my bland looking 20 year old KX500. Its what I got. Its reliable. Its how I roll. I can't count the number of times pricks with shiny orange bikes flip me sh%t at the trailhead at the beginning of a ride only to be skulking around looking down kicking the dust at the end of the ride because they got schooled in spending $12,000 to go dirt biking don't mean sh$t when its all for show.

If I need a new part I choose quality and reliability over bling then sort by price. Almost always that means going OEM though I do buy a few aftermarket parts if the quality and price is there. Whoever has the lowest price online for a given part gets my business. If a used part fits the need then I buy used. Same goes for clothing. If I find something new on closeout or used for 50% or less of retail that doesn't stink I am buying it. A lot of times I will go used just based on the fact that no matter how shiny a new part is, several hours after installation its just another used part anyway.

The only times I bite the bullet and pay too much are times when I need a specialty part or something that is only offered from domestic boutique manufacturers. That is the only time I won't complain about a high price as parts like that need to follow the law of supply and demand since they rarely sell. In situations like that I buy directly from the manufacturer. The companies that sell junk being manufactured in China, getting an American logo stamped on it to be sold for 10-20 times what its worth because "you bro, support the sport" can get f%ct. I am done getting burned on overpriced products.

As for the dealers no, I am not supporting them. Here is why: I am not interested in stuffing cash into the pockets of corporate stock holders to buy an new overpriced dirt bike. There isn't an ounce of technology that has been created in the past 20 years worth investing in from a recreational standpoint. I can understand an up and coming racer or a factory team needing bleeding edge technology as they are in it to win it. The average rider though gets nothing from a new bike besides placebo effect from shiny plastic, bells and whistles. I can kind of understand where picking up a new bike on closeout makes sense if a rider doesn't maintain their bike and pays others to do so. If a rider maintains their own bike however then there really isn't a point in a new bike as its gonna be used and needing maintenance in 10 hour intervals no matter what.

As for parts from the dealer its another no from me. The only time I will buy parts from a dealer is if I am in a pinch, they have the part I need in stock and I can pick it up today. Maybe its because I live in a big city but dealers are crap for ordering parts. It takes 2-3 weeks for what is almost always an overpriced part to be ordered from a dealer who acts like they are doing the customer a favor ordering the part. Why would I go through that when I can have the same part for less money in 3-5 days by ordering online? I have no idea why parts ordering from a dealer has gotten to be this bad in the modern age. Only thing that comes to mind is that dealer's hate selling parts because it means old bikes stay running and new bikes don't get sold. This seems to make sense since the industry markets nothing besides bikes that are designed to be thrown away because maintenance is too high priced on them.

SUMMARY: No I wont spend like I have more money then sense. Whichever business supports me with good prices and a quality product gets my money. The "good ole boys" and their "buddies that support the sport" by selling overpriced goods can cry all they want. I don't care about them just like they don't care about me and the rest of the average consumers that are the true backbone of the "the sport."

Man, I’m just drowning in the positive attitude you’re spewing out there.

It's stupid to not take the best deal. Say a set of handlebars cost $65 for a dealer and retail is $100 and I can get them for $85 on Rocky mountain then why wouldn't I buy them from Rocky mountain? The dealer could sell them to me for the same price as Rocky mountain but they don't. If they were smart they would and take the $20 rather than $0.

I love to support my local dealer. Hell, I would pay a couple extra dollars here and there from a local dealer but I'm not paying a couple extra dollars on 20 different items. That's just plain stupid. I mean come on, say goggles are $10 more from local dealer, a helmet is $30 more, jersey is $15 more, pants are $15 more, gloves are $5 more boots are $20 more, knee braces are $20 more and a chest protector is $20 more. That's what, $135 more for just riding gear? That's insane. I could buy another jersey, pants, gloves, tear offs etc with that $135.

I agree with the OPs general statement, but my god it’s fucking expensive just to spend a day at the track.

You have your 7-10 thousand dollar motorcycle, 1000 bucks worth of gear atleast, and then maintaining the bikes isn’t cheap either.

For me, it costs about 30 bucks in fuel to get to the track and back, and then I usually spend another 10 in fuel for the bike. One simple day at the track usually costs me around 90-100 bucks on gas, entry to the track, and food.

So yes, help out your local dealers and parts shops as much as possible, but unfortunately some of us have to look for the best bargain just to be able to afford even making it to the race track.

"The sport" is a business..