Buyer beware (Not the Vital Bazaar scammer)

pCp 252
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674
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Location
Hampden, MA US
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2530th
Try to make this story as short as possible….In august 2021 I bought a preowned, yet low hour modded 21 KX250 with paperwork from a reputable and long time local racer. 3rd ride in, the Rekluse clutch comes apart and takes out oil pump, entire clutch, “blue’s” the cam journals and everything else is suspect IMO. The oil was badly contaminated with shavings from the inner clutch cover and pieces of the clutch fibers/rekluse basket sleeves. The top end, despite minor flaws to the cam journals looked OK but still this new bike is now a bit compromised in my opinion. Fortunately, the clutch was slipping so bad I pulled off before it locked up completely.

I informed my local dealer due to the recall on this model. Prior to bringing it in, i split the cases and inspect/clean everything. I then assemble bottom end because it looks mostly fine and bring the engine and all related parts to local dealer. Kawi doesn’t warranty any damages due to the Rekluse, but they will supply the recall replacement parts + a few odds and ends. I ended up taking the unbuilt engine and parts back and doing the labor myself, not a big deal to me bc i question dealer’s work and I knew I could get it done more timely as they already had it for 4 months by this time.

Two days later, I get a call from a detective explaining that the bike was flagged as being stolen when i brought it in to my local dealer. According to the dealer that’s on my paperwork (not local) who was contacted by the detective, the certificate is not authentic based off one picture I sent from my phone. However, it is very convincing looking and even the ghosted eagle appears visible when looking through a light. I’m comparing it to my 2020 KX250 certificate. The bike also didn’t register on NICB.org as being stolen when I checked and still doesn’t today.

I know what’s next. I’m going to have to hand over the bike to the original owner and unless they catch the guy who stole it and I’m awarded compensatory damages, i’ll be out the $7,500 i paid for the bike. I did a fair amount of due diligence before the sale, and with paperwork who would have thought it was stolen ?

The other thing is the bike is in a 100+ different pieces and the motor is all apart still. I’m not going to put another 20 hours of my life into this stolen bike getting it prepped for the original owner. It’s been a nightmare since I bought it. I also have new tires mounted and plenty of aftermarket parts on the bike that are rightfully mine but i don’t have the OEM replacements anymore. ECU & exhaust are the major ones. Am I supposed to hand over these components too? I feel bad for the guy who had it stolen in the first place, but in the end I’m the one being screwed. The bike looks like it has 15 hours on it max, only 5 of which I can attest to but if I had my bike stolen and it came back in this condition I’d be thrilled.

I have contacted a family attorney, and he basically told me to cooperate with the detective and that I will have to return the bike in stock form or as close as can be. I also question if the paperwork I have may be genuine ? and that the dealer listed on my paperwork doesn’t want to be involved. Is it plausible they wrongfully made a duplicate C.O. for someone ? In that case I feel they would have some liability. I also can’t help but to question the original owner and their morality. I don’t know the guy or met him, but insurance fraud isn’t all that uncommon. His son could have sold it without permission and told his parents it was stolen, something fraudulent along those lines. Addiction is not all that uncommon around here, as well.

I guess the reason I’m posting is to be aware that forged documentation may exist when buying preowned bikes. But also maybe someone here has some advice for a fellow moto head.
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2/20/2022 4:23pm
When you switched titles into your name there was no red flags? I’m dumb to this and just asking. I would figure it would come back no good or something Like that ?
Bruce372
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6341
Joined
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Location
US
2/20/2022 4:39pm
Wow, that sucks.

I'd take all my parts off and put the thing in a box.

You shouldn't be responsible for the bike now.
1
walent215
Posts
2417
Joined
12/6/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA US
2/20/2022 4:49pm
The local , reputable guy you bought it from bought from who ?
I absolutely would not take the dealers word for anything
Stolen 10k motorcycle and it’s not showing stolen ?
Lots of “ odd “ circumstances imo….
No offense to the family attorney but I think I would do some digging myself and speak to another attorney
8
APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
2/20/2022 4:52pm
When you switched titles into your name there was no red flags? I’m dumb to this and just asking. I would figure it would come back...
When you switched titles into your name there was no red flags? I’m dumb to this and just asking. I would figure it would come back no good or something Like that ?
I think that he’s referring to the MSO/MCO, which some people think is the equivalent of a title if the bike has never been officially ‘registered’.

Even if a bike will never be rode on public lands or roads, I’ve always gotten a title for them. They are always the first document used when determining ownership and the extra cost to title a bike is minuscule in the long run.
3
1

The Shop

Kidkawie
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ქუთაისი GE
2/20/2022 5:07pm
Keep anything you have receipts for.
1
loftyair
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2769
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7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
2/20/2022 5:14pm
Take every single thing you want off that bike. Then say, I haven't touched it yet.
2
pCp 252
Posts
674
Joined
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Location
Hampden, MA US
Fantasy
2530th
2/20/2022 5:15pm
Correct, I may have used the term title interchangeably with Certificate of Origin. i never titled the bike, as I never have with any of my motocross only bikes but is probably a good way to avoid this situation in the future.

Moto520
Posts
3387
Joined
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Location
Schaumburg, IL US
2/20/2022 5:24pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2022 5:31pm
I wouldn’t turn it over. Make them know that they are going to have signed court documents before anything happens. Make it as difficult as possible. You did your due diligence and that should give you s9me space. If anyone is going to lose…..don’t let it be you without a war. Also…..give them a box of parts if it does come to that.
3
Grouper
Posts
302
Joined
11/28/2021
Location
Paducah, KY US
2/20/2022 5:29pm
Maybe a low IQ post but if that's going to happen to you don't even consider putting it back together. He can come get it in 5 gallon buckets if that's the case.
2
lostboy819
Posts
11509
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Somewhere, CO US
Fantasy
1442nd
2/20/2022 8:58pm
So go ask the" reputable and long time local racer " that you bought it from what is going on. Is he the original owner or did he get it from someone ? That is the first guy I would pay a visit to.
31
Broseph
Posts
1078
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4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
2/20/2022 9:07pm
pCp 252 wrote:
Try to make this story as short as possible….In august 2021 I bought a preowned, yet low hour modded 21 KX250 with paperwork from a reputable...
Try to make this story as short as possible….In august 2021 I bought a preowned, yet low hour modded 21 KX250 with paperwork from a reputable and long time local racer. 3rd ride in, the Rekluse clutch comes apart and takes out oil pump, entire clutch, “blue’s” the cam journals and everything else is suspect IMO. The oil was badly contaminated with shavings from the inner clutch cover and pieces of the clutch fibers/rekluse basket sleeves. The top end, despite minor flaws to the cam journals looked OK but still this new bike is now a bit compromised in my opinion. Fortunately, the clutch was slipping so bad I pulled off before it locked up completely.

I informed my local dealer due to the recall on this model. Prior to bringing it in, i split the cases and inspect/clean everything. I then assemble bottom end because it looks mostly fine and bring the engine and all related parts to local dealer. Kawi doesn’t warranty any damages due to the Rekluse, but they will supply the recall replacement parts + a few odds and ends. I ended up taking the unbuilt engine and parts back and doing the labor myself, not a big deal to me bc i question dealer’s work and I knew I could get it done more timely as they already had it for 4 months by this time.

Two days later, I get a call from a detective explaining that the bike was flagged as being stolen when i brought it in to my local dealer. According to the dealer that’s on my paperwork (not local) who was contacted by the detective, the certificate is not authentic based off one picture I sent from my phone. However, it is very convincing looking and even the ghosted eagle appears visible when looking through a light. I’m comparing it to my 2020 KX250 certificate. The bike also didn’t register on NICB.org as being stolen when I checked and still doesn’t today.

I know what’s next. I’m going to have to hand over the bike to the original owner and unless they catch the guy who stole it and I’m awarded compensatory damages, i’ll be out the $7,500 i paid for the bike. I did a fair amount of due diligence before the sale, and with paperwork who would have thought it was stolen ?

The other thing is the bike is in a 100+ different pieces and the motor is all apart still. I’m not going to put another 20 hours of my life into this stolen bike getting it prepped for the original owner. It’s been a nightmare since I bought it. I also have new tires mounted and plenty of aftermarket parts on the bike that are rightfully mine but i don’t have the OEM replacements anymore. ECU & exhaust are the major ones. Am I supposed to hand over these components too? I feel bad for the guy who had it stolen in the first place, but in the end I’m the one being screwed. The bike looks like it has 15 hours on it max, only 5 of which I can attest to but if I had my bike stolen and it came back in this condition I’d be thrilled.

I have contacted a family attorney, and he basically told me to cooperate with the detective and that I will have to return the bike in stock form or as close as can be. I also question if the paperwork I have may be genuine ? and that the dealer listed on my paperwork doesn’t want to be involved. Is it plausible they wrongfully made a duplicate C.O. for someone ? In that case I feel they would have some liability. I also can’t help but to question the original owner and their morality. I don’t know the guy or met him, but insurance fraud isn’t all that uncommon. His son could have sold it without permission and told his parents it was stolen, something fraudulent along those lines. Addiction is not all that uncommon around here, as well.

I guess the reason I’m posting is to be aware that forged documentation may exist when buying preowned bikes. But also maybe someone here has some advice for a fellow moto head.
If you somehow end up keeping the bike, tell Rekluse their clutch blew up and destroyed your engine. You’d be surprised how many blown motors they pay for every year. Only reason you don’t hear about it more is their awesome customer service does a pretty good at smoothing things over.
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Sandusky26
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2671
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Location
Eastern, NC US
2/21/2022 2:40am
I would grind every number off the bike, even the number plates.
9
CPan
Posts
361
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2/21/2022
Location
CA
2/21/2022 4:43am
Something very similar happened to my brother up here in Canada (so rules are likely different). His bike got stolen and eventually found. The guy who had it was not the one that stole it and was able to prove that to the police. The guy claimed he added a lot of aftermarket parts to the bike and they said he could keep them. My brother got back a frame and a set of wheels.
1
Stooperbike
Posts
269
Joined
10/6/2008
Location
Salem, NH US
2/21/2022 5:00am
Almost sounds like you should check the Detective out, meaning that in itself sounds like a scam. Also just thinking what if the bike was stolen and the original owner made an insurance claim against it? This sounds like a long ordeal, sorry man that really sucks.
5
PNWMXer
Posts
749
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1/13/2022
Location
Stanwood, WA US
2/21/2022 5:15am
Sandusky26 wrote:
I would grind every number off the bike, even the number plates.
Nice way to catch a felony.
5
soggy
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4882
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12/3/2018
Location
UT US
Fantasy
3846th
2/21/2022 5:45am
Something definitely seems sketchy here. Call your dmv and ask them to do a VIN check on it. Tell them it’s a bike you are considering buying.
2
Grouper
Posts
302
Joined
11/28/2021
Location
Paducah, KY US
2/21/2022 7:04am
I hope you insure your bikes. I insure all of mine and I would just hand it over in buckets and then report it stolen, as it correctly is being taken from you with no reimbursement by someone who does night rightly own it. So, theft.
If you have not insured it, stop reading this and do it now.

I have been stewing on this all weekend, stuff like this bothers me bad. Sorry for the situation man good luck.
1
2
Moto520
Posts
3387
Joined
2/4/2013
Location
Schaumburg, IL US
2/21/2022 7:22am
Also....it goes with out saying....i'm sorry that this bullshit happened to you Moto-brother. I hope it all works out. Keep us updated
2
DerickYZ
Posts
541
Joined
6/15/2014
Location
Salamanca, NY US
2/21/2022 7:30am
Get a new frame on eBay and swap the frame. Fuck em. You’re out the money if you turn it over. Shitty situation
2
Falcon
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10108
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Location
Menifee, CA US
Fantasy
798th
2/21/2022 8:17am
"Flagged as stolen" could have been a false police report. Run A KSR report to see if it has ever been registered. If it came from a local racer, odds are good it was purchased on MSO, never registered, and the lack of registration is causing a glitch in Kawasaki's owner tracking system. The original dealer may have even "warranty registered" the bike in the owner's kid's name to collect manufacturer rebates or something. Don't assume it's stolen until and unless the detective can prove it already belongs to someone else.
9
pCp 252
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674
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Hampden, MA US
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2530th
2/21/2022 2:08pm
Agreed the story is suspect.

The detective is legit. I called the police department where the detective’s office is and was phone transferred to the same guy.

The detective is tracking the chain of ownership. The reputable racer I bought the bike from gave me screenshots of the person he bought it from. Hopefully that person has a lead but I’m not sure yet.

I do plan on making it difficult for the original owner. Obv i’m not going to file any VIN numbers off but court ordered documents sounds like a good call. Thanks for everyone’s support so far.
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2
2/21/2022 2:24pm
Im not a scammer But USPS is sure making me look like one, Its bullshit, i had A fella from UK purchase some parts from me and i bought a Shipping Label through ebay (USPS) and sent the package out, well turns out they returned it to me cause im assuming were not aloud to ship to UK right now???

I have never had an issue untill now with USPS and EBAY, this week is the first issue i have had and it sure is making me look bad. Please Be careful using EBAY and USPS trying to ship to other countries cause apparently its not working at the moment, oh and not to mention i lost $149 on the label that came back to me.

1
2
Tonynz
Posts
830
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Location
NZ
2/21/2022 3:06pm
Im not a scammer But USPS is sure making me look like one, Its bullshit, i had A fella from UK purchase some parts from me...
Im not a scammer But USPS is sure making me look like one, Its bullshit, i had A fella from UK purchase some parts from me and i bought a Shipping Label through ebay (USPS) and sent the package out, well turns out they returned it to me cause im assuming were not aloud to ship to UK right now???

I have never had an issue untill now with USPS and EBAY, this week is the first issue i have had and it sure is making me look bad. Please Be careful using EBAY and USPS trying to ship to other countries cause apparently its not working at the moment, oh and not to mention i lost $149 on the label that came back to me.

We have the same issues here in NZ, with USPS ex USA.
ttusomeone
Posts
39
Joined
1/9/2022
Location
Nashville, TN US
2/21/2022 3:27pm
pCp 252 wrote:
Agreed the story is suspect. The detective is legit. I called the police department where the detective’s office is and was phone transferred to the same...
Agreed the story is suspect.

The detective is legit. I called the police department where the detective’s office is and was phone transferred to the same guy.

The detective is tracking the chain of ownership. The reputable racer I bought the bike from gave me screenshots of the person he bought it from. Hopefully that person has a lead but I’m not sure yet.

I do plan on making it difficult for the original owner. Obv i’m not going to file any VIN numbers off but court ordered documents sounds like a good call. Thanks for everyone’s support so far.
You should also contact an attorney in your area to see what your options are and to help protect your interests (both with making sure the original owner is legit and getting as much of your money back as possible). You may end up having a claim against the person you bought it from versus having to follow the chain all the way down to the thief. Beyond the owner having to prove ownership (which the detective should also be doing), I'd also think about putting yourself in the owner's shoes and how you'd react if your bike was stolen, found, and then what condition you'd want it back in.
6
mxfuture
Posts
198
Joined
1/30/2022
Location
Spokane, WA US
2/21/2022 6:06pm
When you switched titles into your name there was no red flags? I’m dumb to this and just asking. I would figure it would come back...
When you switched titles into your name there was no red flags? I’m dumb to this and just asking. I would figure it would come back no good or something Like that ?
I've had something similar happen. A bike I bought checked out after calling it in. One week after I traded it in I get a phone call from the police who are looking for it. Apparently, someone mistyped the VIN when registering...

I was lucky...

vetmxr
Posts
1079
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1/10/2009
Location
NE US
2/22/2022 5:19pm
I'd get that 7500 back from the guy I bought it from one way or another.......easy way or hard way??? Dont matter.....
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1
Moto_Geek
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1823
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Location
Golden, CO US
Fantasy
1464th
2/22/2022 9:21pm
Probably the least path of resistance and keeping lawyers out of it I would try to see if the owner that had it stolen from them already was paid out for an insurance claim. Then the owner might understand and just move on and let the detective take an affidavit statement from each party that the property ownership was resolved with unusual circumstances.
3
1
soggy
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UT US
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2/23/2022 5:27am
vetmxr wrote:
I'd get that 7500 back from the guy I bought it from one way or another.......easy way or hard way??? Dont matter.....
Ok tough guy.
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lostboy819
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11509
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Somewhere, CO US
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1442nd
2/23/2022 9:04am
vetmxr wrote:
I'd get that 7500 back from the guy I bought it from one way or another.......easy way or hard way??? Dont matter.....
I think the "reputable and long time local racer." he got it from isn't as innocent as the OP believes.
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