Budds Creek and the Civil War.

MudPup545
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Edited Date/Time 11/2/2019 7:55am
I know Mechanicsville is home of a Civil War battlefield​. But, is Budds Creek, the track itself built on or near it? Thanks in advance.
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doghouse
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5/1/2017 10:03am
MudPup545 wrote:
I know Mechanicsville is home of a Civil War battlefield​. But, is Budds Creek, the track itself built on or near it? Thanks in advance.
Mechanicsville Va. has a battlefield, don't know of one in Md.
5/1/2017 10:11am
MudPup545 wrote:
I know Mechanicsville is home of a Civil War battlefield​. But, is Budds Creek, the track itself built on or near it? Thanks in advance.
doghouse wrote:
Mechanicsville Va. has a battlefield, don't know of one in Md.
I used to race at a track called Antietum, in Antietum md. I'm pretty sure I remember it having some civil war activity that took place there. Maybe that's what your thinking of. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure.
doghouse
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5/1/2017 10:13am
Antietam was one of the bloodiest battles of the war.
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MudPup545
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5/1/2017 10:29am
Well, I now see that yes there is a Mechanicsville in VA also. And it was home to a Civil War battlefield. Not sure why I thought it was near Budds Creek.

The Shop

doghouse
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5/1/2017 10:32am
MudPup545 wrote:
Well, I now see that yes there is a Mechanicsville in VA also. And it was home to a Civil War battlefield. Not sure why I...
Well, I now see that yes there is a Mechanicsville in VA also. And it was home to a Civil War battlefield. Not sure why I thought it was near Budds Creek.
Don't feel too bad, it's not entirely a long way away! An hour and a half or so drive down 301.

Most Civil War activity in MD was west of D.C.
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rohleder644
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5/1/2017 10:54am
doghouse wrote:
Antietam was one of the bloodiest battles of the war.
Bloodiest single day of fighting, as a matter of fact.
1
5/1/2017 11:01am
That's right I remember my Dad saying that when we travel there in my mini days. That track was pretty cool also, not to today standards though. Aquasco was always my favorite MD track, even above Buds
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phatfi20
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5/1/2017 11:22am
Jonathan Beasley will probably have an answer to that if you contact him through facebook. I think he is a history buff and has a pretty significant collection.

This year was the first I noticed there is a cannon sitting near the finish line jump. I assume that is civil war related.
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DC
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5/1/2017 11:43am Edited Date/Time 5/1/2017 3:38pm
Route 234 (which the track is located on) was part of the escape route of John Wilkes Booth after he assassinated President Lincoln. Along the way he stopped and was treated for the leg he broke jumping from the balcony to the stage at Ford Theater by Dr. Samuel Mudd, who was later tried for treason and sentenced to life in prison, even though he argued that he was simply doing his job as a doctor and not a collaborator. He was released after four years in prison in the Dry Tortugas off Florida because he helped save many in the prison from an outbreak of yellow fever (or maybe typhoid?) and not pardoned, but his reputation was ruined forever -- that's why people would say "your name is Mudd" when someone was tarnished or scandalized for generations to follow... His family is still trying to get him exonerated.

Antietam was a different track, on the northwest side of Washington DC, the complete opposite direction from Budds Creek. It was the site of the worst single day of bloodshed in American history, as someone mentioned above. There is a cool, off-battlefield graveyard there near Fredericksburg that has about 4,000 Union soldiers and maybe 500 Confederates, very sad and lonely place to visit if have time...

Johnathan is practically a scholar of the Civil War and could tell you much more. I am just a lifelong history buff and grew up driving to both tracks.

DC
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Markee
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5/1/2017 11:47am
BUDDS CREEEEEEEEK!
JustMX
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5/1/2017 11:51am
Seems like I remember some kind of ruckus about a practice track just a minutes away from bc that was getting complaints from an adjoining historic site.

I recall the track owner came off as an ass because he said something about the civil war being a long time ago and that it was time to move on, or something to that affect.
Xeno
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5/1/2017 12:04pm
DC, were you homeschooled? I'm not trying to make a joke or anything- I'm just curious.
I believe your parents were school teachers before becoming race promoters. Were you home enough to attend public/private school?
JBecker 72
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5/1/2017 12:17pm
Last time I was in the clubhouse there was a Confederate flag hanging up in there.

But as DC said, the fighting took place to the west of Mechanicsville, MD. Not like the 301 bridge was there then.
tiddlermx23
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5/1/2017 1:27pm
Xeno wrote:
DC, were you homeschooled? I'm not trying to make a joke or anything- I'm just curious. I believe your parents were school teachers before becoming race...
DC, were you homeschooled? I'm not trying to make a joke or anything- I'm just curious.
I believe your parents were school teachers before becoming race promoters. Were you home enough to attend public/private school?
Dc went to school.
early
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5/1/2017 1:33pm
Xeno wrote:
DC, were you homeschooled? I'm not trying to make a joke or anything- I'm just curious. I believe your parents were school teachers before becoming race...
DC, were you homeschooled? I'm not trying to make a joke or anything- I'm just curious.
I believe your parents were school teachers before becoming race promoters. Were you home enough to attend public/private school?
Dc went to school.
College even
doghouse
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5/1/2017 1:52pm
JBecker 72 wrote:
Last time I was in the clubhouse there was a Confederate flag hanging up in there. But as DC said, the fighting took place to the...
Last time I was in the clubhouse there was a Confederate flag hanging up in there.

But as DC said, the fighting took place to the west of Mechanicsville, MD. Not like the 301 bridge was there then.
I dunno man, that bridge is pretty old...
GregDVT
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5/1/2017 3:10pm
DC wrote:
Route 234 (which the track is located on) was part of the escape route of John Wilkes Booth after he assassinated President Lincoln. Along the way...
Route 234 (which the track is located on) was part of the escape route of John Wilkes Booth after he assassinated President Lincoln. Along the way he stopped and was treated for the leg he broke jumping from the balcony to the stage at Ford Theater by Dr. Samuel Mudd, who was later tried for treason and sentenced to life in prison, even though he argued that he was simply doing his job as a doctor and not a collaborator. He was released after four years in prison in the Dry Tortugas off Florida because he helped save many in the prison from an outbreak of yellow fever (or maybe typhoid?) and not pardoned, but his reputation was ruined forever -- that's why people would say "your name is Mudd" when someone was tarnished or scandalized for generations to follow... His family is still trying to get him exonerated.

Antietam was a different track, on the northwest side of Washington DC, the complete opposite direction from Budds Creek. It was the site of the worst single day of bloodshed in American history, as someone mentioned above. There is a cool, off-battlefield graveyard there near Fredericksburg that has about 4,000 Union soldiers and maybe 500 Confederates, very sad and lonely place to visit if have time...

Johnathan is practically a scholar of the Civil War and could tell you much more. I am just a lifelong history buff and grew up driving to both tracks.

DC
Racer X

I got to spin some laps on the old Antietam track about 4 years ago near Hagerstown, awesome layout we didn't even prep it. Supercool experience
NetMXer
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5/1/2017 3:15pm
DC wrote:
Route 234 (which the track is located on) was part of the escape route of John Wilkes Booth after he assassinated President Lincoln. Along the way...
Route 234 (which the track is located on) was part of the escape route of John Wilkes Booth after he assassinated President Lincoln. Along the way he stopped and was treated for the leg he broke jumping from the balcony to the stage at Ford Theater by Dr. Samuel Mudd, who was later tried for treason and sentenced to life in prison, even though he argued that he was simply doing his job as a doctor and not a collaborator. He was released after four years in prison in the Dry Tortugas off Florida because he helped save many in the prison from an outbreak of yellow fever (or maybe typhoid?) and not pardoned, but his reputation was ruined forever -- that's why people would say "your name is Mudd" when someone was tarnished or scandalized for generations to follow... His family is still trying to get him exonerated.

Antietam was a different track, on the northwest side of Washington DC, the complete opposite direction from Budds Creek. It was the site of the worst single day of bloodshed in American history, as someone mentioned above. There is a cool, off-battlefield graveyard there near Fredericksburg that has about 4,000 Union soldiers and maybe 500 Confederates, very sad and lonely place to visit if have time...

Johnathan is practically a scholar of the Civil War and could tell you much more. I am just a lifelong history buff and grew up driving to both tracks.

DC
Racer X

Although the track was named after the famous battle, Antietam was not on the property where the battle took place.

Budds Creek was probably closer to the War of 1812 as the British traveled up the Potomac to DC.
DC
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5/1/2017 3:24pm
Xeno, you are correct, my parents were school teachers -- for many years after they got into moto even, to pay the bills in the winter they substituted. But I never had them in a class. But my dad was the cool teacher who would dress up in a Civil War uniform or WW1 doughboy and teach class that day in character. Every trip to the races or really anywhere was one big history lesson and I'm still a history (and literature) buff all these years later. Pursued English and History degrees at West Virginia University and they came in handy when I'm playing Trivial Pursuit or someone mentions Antietam here! If you're ever on a trivia show and need a lifeline, I'm available...

And I was never homeschooled -- that barely existed back then and my folks would have ever had it. All three of us graduated from high school and college, and I know that was real important to my parents.

GregDVT, I didn't know you could still get on Antietam, I may go by the way to Budds this summer!

DC
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DC
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5/1/2017 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2017 3:35pm
NetMXer wrote, Although the track was named after the famous battle, Antietam was not on the property where the battle took place.

I knew that! And if I am not mistaken, by general rule of thumb, the winning side usually got to name the battle in the history books after the Civil War, and the North named their battles for the nearest natural landmark or river or body of water, and the South named them for the nearest town.... But Antietam Raceway was definitely not on the battlefield, regardless of whether you think of it as the Battle of Antietam or the Battle of Sharpsburg (and that's where that cemetery is).

I practically grew up on the Mason-Dixon Line, which separates North & South, so there is Civil War stuff everywhere around West Virginia (we started on the South's side, switched to North in 1863, still not sure which side most felt they were truly on) but I honestly studied and still read more about the World Wars in Europe. It's a Hemingway thing, I guess!

DC
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MudPup545
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5/1/2017 4:40pm
Thank you all for the responses and the history lesson. My question was sparked from a conversation at work. A co-worker is heading to the east coast tomorrow (Annapolis) and that led to talk of site seeing, historical places....etc. Of course the Civil War came up. He said he had been to few battlefields and would like to see more. That led me to mentioning​ Budds Creek/Mechanicsville. I figured someone on here would know the history of the track and/area around it. And I'm honored to have gotten a response from DC himself.
GregDVT
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5/1/2017 4:43pm
DC wrote:
Xeno, you are correct, my parents were school teachers -- for many years after they got into moto even, to pay the bills in the winter...
Xeno, you are correct, my parents were school teachers -- for many years after they got into moto even, to pay the bills in the winter they substituted. But I never had them in a class. But my dad was the cool teacher who would dress up in a Civil War uniform or WW1 doughboy and teach class that day in character. Every trip to the races or really anywhere was one big history lesson and I'm still a history (and literature) buff all these years later. Pursued English and History degrees at West Virginia University and they came in handy when I'm playing Trivial Pursuit or someone mentions Antietam here! If you're ever on a trivia show and need a lifeline, I'm available...

And I was never homeschooled -- that barely existed back then and my folks would have ever had it. All three of us graduated from high school and college, and I know that was real important to my parents.

GregDVT, I didn't know you could still get on Antietam, I may go by the way to Budds this summer!

DC
Racer X

A friend's riding club was in negotiations to lease the land, unfortunately it fell through after a few months. Assuming it is the same as it was in 2011, its just a metal gate that you can squeeze by on foot to view the layout.
Bearuno
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5/1/2017 5:26pm
Hey, DC - wasn't it the opposite - the South tended to name battles after Natural features, the North more the Towns / Rail Lines / Stations etc near to them?

Due to the South being more agrarian, and the North being more industrial / urban - at least by those times standards. I think that's what I saw Shelby Foote say in that wonderful Burns Brothers Civil War series. Among so many great interviews with him and others in the series, I remember him comparing the marching efforts of the troops on both sides, then them having to go into battle, as being near super human - as he'd been a Marine(?) and knew just how shattered he'd be from a forced march.

Another thing that has stuck with me is how Wilmer McLean had one of the first major battles on his property - 1st Bull Run / 1st Manassas - , he left there to get away from the conflict, to then have the surrender at his Appomattox (Courthouse?) residence. Couldn't get away from things, it seems.

I've read many books about the American Civil War, and got to a few of the Battle Fields over the years whilst in the US - I find it fascinating, and terribly sad at the same time. Civil Wars tend to be the most vicious of conflicts.
1
5/1/2017 5:47pm
Bearuno wrote:
Hey, DC - wasn't it the opposite - the South tended to name battles after Natural features, the North more the Towns / Rail Lines /...
Hey, DC - wasn't it the opposite - the South tended to name battles after Natural features, the North more the Towns / Rail Lines / Stations etc near to them?

Due to the South being more agrarian, and the North being more industrial / urban - at least by those times standards. I think that's what I saw Shelby Foote say in that wonderful Burns Brothers Civil War series. Among so many great interviews with him and others in the series, I remember him comparing the marching efforts of the troops on both sides, then them having to go into battle, as being near super human - as he'd been a Marine(?) and knew just how shattered he'd be from a forced march.

Another thing that has stuck with me is how Wilmer McLean had one of the first major battles on his property - 1st Bull Run / 1st Manassas - , he left there to get away from the conflict, to then have the surrender at his Appomattox (Courthouse?) residence. Couldn't get away from things, it seems.

I've read many books about the American Civil War, and got to a few of the Battle Fields over the years whilst in the US - I find it fascinating, and terribly sad at the same time. Civil Wars tend to be the most vicious of conflicts.
I'm impressed. I've pondered McLean's reluctant significance to the Civil War but I didn't expect to find a reference to it on this forum. Equally impressed it comes from an Aussie. Well done, sir.
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LtColMXUSM131
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5/1/2017 5:49pm
DC wrote:
Xeno, you are correct, my parents were school teachers -- for many years after they got into moto even, to pay the bills in the winter...
Xeno, you are correct, my parents were school teachers -- for many years after they got into moto even, to pay the bills in the winter they substituted. But I never had them in a class. But my dad was the cool teacher who would dress up in a Civil War uniform or WW1 doughboy and teach class that day in character. Every trip to the races or really anywhere was one big history lesson and I'm still a history (and literature) buff all these years later. Pursued English and History degrees at West Virginia University and they came in handy when I'm playing Trivial Pursuit or someone mentions Antietam here! If you're ever on a trivia show and need a lifeline, I'm available...

And I was never homeschooled -- that barely existed back then and my folks would have ever had it. All three of us graduated from high school and college, and I know that was real important to my parents.

GregDVT, I didn't know you could still get on Antietam, I may go by the way to Budds this summer!

DC
Racer X

There were no battles near Budds Creek MX track.
https://www.nps.gov/abpp/battles/MDmap.htm

Antietam is probably one of the best one day battlefields to visit. It is National Park and open year round.
https://www.nps.gov/anti/index.htm

Yes bloodiest 1 day battle.
In the cornfield alone almost 80,000 troops were engaged with almost 9,000 casualties in a few hours.

Gettysburg is likely the best battlefield to visit but plan on spending a day and a half there if not 2 due to size.
Antietam is in a small area, can be seen in 1 day.
Antietam is incredibly well preserved the way it looked on the day of the battle. Since it was widely photographed there are many places where the park service has placed photos at locations at the exact location and looking in the same direction as where the battle took place.
For instance you can stand on a artillery position that fired at the Dunker church which is still standing and this picture looks exactly as it did just after the battle.

https://wpclipart.com/American_History/civil_war/Antietam/Antietam_bodi…

Semper Fi

5/1/2017 6:52pm
doghouse wrote:
Antietam was one of the bloodiest battles of the war.
The Battle of Antietam was the greatest loss of American life in a single day in history -- period. For Lee's Army of Northern Virginia (with its back to the river), it was a DESPERATE struggle.
5/1/2017 7:04pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2017 12:10pm
Bearuno wrote:
Hey, DC - wasn't it the opposite - the South tended to name battles after Natural features, the North more the Towns / Rail Lines /...
Hey, DC - wasn't it the opposite - the South tended to name battles after Natural features, the North more the Towns / Rail Lines / Stations etc near to them?

Due to the South being more agrarian, and the North being more industrial / urban - at least by those times standards. I think that's what I saw Shelby Foote say in that wonderful Burns Brothers Civil War series. Among so many great interviews with him and others in the series, I remember him comparing the marching efforts of the troops on both sides, then them having to go into battle, as being near super human - as he'd been a Marine(?) and knew just how shattered he'd be from a forced march.

Another thing that has stuck with me is how Wilmer McLean had one of the first major battles on his property - 1st Bull Run / 1st Manassas - , he left there to get away from the conflict, to then have the surrender at his Appomattox (Courthouse?) residence. Couldn't get away from things, it seems.

I've read many books about the American Civil War, and got to a few of the Battle Fields over the years whilst in the US - I find it fascinating, and terribly sad at the same time. Civil Wars tend to be the most vicious of conflicts.
DC has it right. The North generally chose natural features, and the South generally choose nearby towns or defined places:

North: Bull Run (creek)
South: Manassas

North: Antietam (creek)
South: Sharpsburg

North: Pittsburg Landing (place on the river)
South: Shiloh (church)

North: Stones River
South: Murfreesboro

North: Beaver Dam Creek
South: Mechanicsville

North: Chickahominy River
South: Gaines' Mill
Bearuno
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5/1/2017 7:56pm
DC has it right. The North generally chose natural features, and the South generally choose nearby towns or defined places: North: Bull Run (creek) South: Manassas...
DC has it right. The North generally chose natural features, and the South generally choose nearby towns or defined places:

North: Bull Run (creek)
South: Manassas

North: Antietam (creek)
South: Sharpsburg

North: Pittsburg Landing (place on the river)
South: Shiloh (church)

North: Stones River
South: Murfreesboro

North: Beaver Dam Creek
South: Mechanicsville

North: Chickahominy River
South: Gaines' Mill
I got it wrong - The differences I put forward - the South being, generally, more agrarian , thus it made Cities etc more noteworthy to them, and the opposite for the North. Got it mixed up.

I've read a lot about the American Civil War. Mind boggling battles, and huge losses. I've been meaning to re-read the Historical Novels : Killer Angels, Gods and Generals and The Last Full measure, by Michael and then, his son, Jeff Shaara. Jeff Shaara has written a fair few more Historical Novels on various aspects of the Civil War, that I'd like to get to. And, I want to re-read Footes' 3 volume history of the War - The Civil War - A Narrative .

On the Australian side, over the years I've been wading my way through Charles Beans' Official Australian History of WW1. Quite a slog, 12 dense, thick volumes, as it's very 'historical', and infinitely detailed. They are strict Histories, with no aspect of Novelization. The man traveled with our troops on so many fronts, then spent decades researching, and also gathering War artifacts to establish the Australian War memorial, and for many, many townships Memorials.
5/1/2017 8:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2017 8:16pm
Bearuno wrote:
I got it wrong - The differences I put forward - the South being, generally, more agrarian , thus it made Cities etc more noteworthy to...
I got it wrong - The differences I put forward - the South being, generally, more agrarian , thus it made Cities etc more noteworthy to them, and the opposite for the North. Got it mixed up.

I've read a lot about the American Civil War. Mind boggling battles, and huge losses. I've been meaning to re-read the Historical Novels : Killer Angels, Gods and Generals and The Last Full measure, by Michael and then, his son, Jeff Shaara. Jeff Shaara has written a fair few more Historical Novels on various aspects of the Civil War, that I'd like to get to. And, I want to re-read Footes' 3 volume history of the War - The Civil War - A Narrative .

On the Australian side, over the years I've been wading my way through Charles Beans' Official Australian History of WW1. Quite a slog, 12 dense, thick volumes, as it's very 'historical', and infinitely detailed. They are strict Histories, with no aspect of Novelization. The man traveled with our troops on so many fronts, then spent decades researching, and also gathering War artifacts to establish the Australian War memorial, and for many, many townships Memorials.
I live in Central Virginia. There are major battlefields everywhere. Make note that I went to college in Fredericksburg, and the campus literally/physically sits on Marye's Heights, position of Longstreet's Corp during the Battle of Fredericksburg.
Tomok
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5/2/2017 5:21am
Ask Trump.
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