*UPDATE, Had Surgery* Broken Humerus (upper right arm, mid bone) Surgery vs. No?

Spagina767
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Edited Date/Time 1/24/2021 10:34am
I broke my arm two weeks ago racing at a Tomahawk MX in WV. First bad break, ever.

I’ve now been to the ER and then to my surgeon twice and he still seems very up in the air on how to treat. I don’t want to jump the gun, but if surgery is required I want to get shit moving. From what I can tell, pros and cons are:

Natural healing - less invasive, less money, no radial nerve damage, no scar. Long heal time, a lot of atrophy, significant shoulder and elbow mobility issues and stiffness. Long, long road for recovery.

Surgery W/ plate and screws - money, invasive, big scar (I don’t care), quickly will be able to move my arm and resume non impact activities. Potential to damage radial nerve. It could not happen at all, it could be damaged and go dormant for up to 6 months, or it could be permanently damaged (very, very low probability). This causes wrist drop and I will lose certain functions in my right hand until the nerve “wakes up”.

I’m torn on what to do. Neither option seems great. Who has had a similar break? What did you do? Any info to share?


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kb228
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10/12/2020 5:48am
I think its one of those things you need to look at your job and see if going without an arm for that long is going to be feasible.

If theres a real risk to that nerve i wouldnt do the surgery. I broke my tibia right at the knee joint. 2 incisions, 2 plates, probably 14 screws. Its been 2 years and the entire front of my knee and top of my shin is still as numb as when i woke up in recovery. I wouldnt hold my breath on a nerve “waking up”. I have a similar situation on my collarbone i broke at the same time. My entire left chest/left front shoulder is half numb. Feels like tv static when someone touches that area.
Spagina767
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10/12/2020 6:08am
kb228 wrote:
I think its one of those things you need to look at your job and see if going without an arm for that long is going...
I think its one of those things you need to look at your job and see if going without an arm for that long is going to be feasible.

If theres a real risk to that nerve i wouldnt do the surgery. I broke my tibia right at the knee joint. 2 incisions, 2 plates, probably 14 screws. Its been 2 years and the entire front of my knee and top of my shin is still as numb as when i woke up in recovery. I wouldnt hold my breath on a nerve “waking up”. I have a similar situation on my collarbone i broke at the same time. My entire left chest/left front shoulder is half numb. Feels like tv static when someone touches that area.
Ironically I am a Vice President of Safety at a company that performs heavy highway/ civil, commercial construction and also real-estate. I can do my job but it’s defiantly tough and it is limiting my abilities in the field. I’m working 70 hours to get 60 hours of work done.

I understand your sentiment on the Radial nerve going dormant or not, but it’s common to be affected and EXTREMELY uncommon to not come back. That’s per my doctor and every study shown online. So that doesn’t scare me too bad.

Not having a fully working arm/ shoulder/ elbow for 9-12 months due to atrophy and mobility is super concerning, though.
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10/12/2020 6:12am
I have broken my ankle 3 years ago and have 1 plate and a few screws holding it together now. I have had a very numb feeling in my calf like KB228 described. This has probably lasted for 1 year now every thing is back to normal.
kxf250f176
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10/12/2020 6:37am
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week or so before surgery to allow swelling to go down before they plated it. I shattered my wrist in the same crash and had surgery on that a day after the humerus. There was risk according to the doctor of radial nerve damage during both surgeries but fortunately none occurred. I now have full strength and movement in the arm and wrist. At the end of the day tho, listen to your doctor is all I can say. They will know best.

The Shop

Spagina767
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10/12/2020 6:57am
kxf250f176 wrote:
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week...
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week or so before surgery to allow swelling to go down before they plated it. I shattered my wrist in the same crash and had surgery on that a day after the humerus. There was risk according to the doctor of radial nerve damage during both surgeries but fortunately none occurred. I now have full strength and movement in the arm and wrist. At the end of the day tho, listen to your doctor is all I can say. They will know best.
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback. Honestly my doctor seems so in-between that it’s concerning.

If I said surgery, he’d do it tomorrow. If I demand to wait, he will wait. I personally like a surgeon to have more conviction and guidance than what I’ve had. I see a second doctor today at 3.
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kb228
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10/12/2020 7:15am
kxf250f176 wrote:
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week...
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week or so before surgery to allow swelling to go down before they plated it. I shattered my wrist in the same crash and had surgery on that a day after the humerus. There was risk according to the doctor of radial nerve damage during both surgeries but fortunately none occurred. I now have full strength and movement in the arm and wrist. At the end of the day tho, listen to your doctor is all I can say. They will know best.
Spagina767 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback. Honestly my doctor seems so in-between that it’s concerning. If I said surgery, he’d do it tomorrow. If...
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback. Honestly my doctor seems so in-between that it’s concerning.

If I said surgery, he’d do it tomorrow. If I demand to wait, he will wait. I personally like a surgeon to have more conviction and guidance than what I’ve had. I see a second doctor today at 3.
Look for a good sports medicine surgeon. The original one i had lacked confidence and told me id need a knee replacement on the spot. i went to a guy whos got experience working with olympic athletes in columbus ohio and everything is good as new as much as it could be.
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AE448
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10/12/2020 7:24am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 7:25am
I haven't gone through anything similar but for me it would be the op for sure, especially if radial nerve damage is extremely rare as you say. Going naturally, it could take 9-12 months or longer...having the docs operate and keep track of it should get it sorted quicker, as long as there are no issues along the way. You need a specialist that gives you confidence though, doesn't sound like you've been given much of that so far. Good luck!
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Spagina767
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10/12/2020 7:30am
Thanks guys. My surgeon is a sports ortho. He did my knee and that was great but I don’t feel the same warm and fuzzy about my arm.

I set up a follow up second opinion at VCU in Richmond today with a sports doctor that works with all the college athletes. We’ll see what he says!
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RalphS
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10/12/2020 7:37am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 7:41am
kxf250f176 wrote:
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week...
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week or so before surgery to allow swelling to go down before they plated it. I shattered my wrist in the same crash and had surgery on that a day after the humerus. There was risk according to the doctor of radial nerve damage during both surgeries but fortunately none occurred. I now have full strength and movement in the arm and wrist. At the end of the day tho, listen to your doctor is all I can say. They will know best.
Happy to hear you healed nicely, serious double fracture. Yup from the x-ray natural healing wasn't an option.

Spagina767, 2 friends of mine broke their humerus and plate them. One was very young, had a break like yours and in no time was back to his regular live, the other one was in his forties and was hesitant but the pain and discomfort decided for him (was worst than a clean cut break maybe shattered, can't recall), it took him a while but he resumed normal live and was happy with the outcome.

You're doing the right thing by checking with a second doctor, I'd even go for a third opinion if needed. I'd suggest check and decide more based on doctors feedback, your age, health, pain/discomfort, needs and preference than based on studies.

At the end, all these studies are scary but the % of things going south is often less than 1 and decent-to-good doctors most of the time aren't part of the statistics, that being said the further away from the operating room the better.
LKHill
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10/12/2020 7:37am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 7:38am
It never hurts to get a second opinion. Seems like it would heal up in time to be riding in the spring with surgery. If you go the other road and it won't heal they may have to operate anyway.
SweetDaddy
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10/12/2020 7:38am
I also broke mine in 2 places so plate and screws for me - no issues.
b.mohler
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10/12/2020 7:42am
I had what looks like the same break on my left arm. I had a rod put in from the top of the humerus and only ended up with two small incisions close to my shoulder and one right above my elbow. All less than an inch long. See if you have that option cause its WAY less invasive than the plates option.
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Maddeh
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10/12/2020 8:16am
Had the same break as OP, long time ago (16 years old). No surgery, just a full arm cast. Had to sleep sitting up for 3-4 weeks if I remember correctly. I don't recall the total recovery time but it healed up well. No residual effects or anything.
10/12/2020 8:21am
I broke my right humourous in ‘96. I didn’t have surgery, I don’t regret it, it’s perfectly fine.

Given that brake is right in the middle of the bone & one nice big break, I’d leave it without doubt.
kxf250f176
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10/12/2020 8:45am
kxf250f176 wrote:
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week...
I had similar break but in two spots on the same bone. From what I recall, natural healing wasn't even an option. It was a week or so before surgery to allow swelling to go down before they plated it. I shattered my wrist in the same crash and had surgery on that a day after the humerus. There was risk according to the doctor of radial nerve damage during both surgeries but fortunately none occurred. I now have full strength and movement in the arm and wrist. At the end of the day tho, listen to your doctor is all I can say. They will know best.
Spagina767 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback. Honestly my doctor seems so in-between that it’s concerning. If I said surgery, he’d do it tomorrow. If...
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback. Honestly my doctor seems so in-between that it’s concerning.

If I said surgery, he’d do it tomorrow. If I demand to wait, he will wait. I personally like a surgeon to have more conviction and guidance than what I’ve had. I see a second doctor today at 3.
kb228 wrote:
Look for a good sports medicine surgeon. The original one i had lacked confidence and told me id need a knee replacement on the spot. i...
Look for a good sports medicine surgeon. The original one i had lacked confidence and told me id need a knee replacement on the spot. i went to a guy whos got experience working with olympic athletes in columbus ohio and everything is good as new as much as it could be.
Agree on the sports medicine. I was fortunate enough to use the same ortho group that supports the Notre Dame football team. The first doctor I went to didn't have a clue what to do so he directed me to them. Sounds like your situation.
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chasetwo79
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10/12/2020 8:57am
I broke my right humorous in the same place as you and completely in half like you. It was about 16 years ago and I let it heal without surgery I had no long term issues. However the first 3 months were tough. As it heals and grows it’s gonna be painful and the worst part about it is that you have to sleep sitting up and never let that arm drop.

You’ll get through it.
ti473
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10/12/2020 9:17am
I also had a similar break as yours back in 2001, just a little bit lower.
Clean break, 2 pieces.
I was 20 years old, I got it rodded.
I wanted the rod out though, for no other reason that I was still young and worried about long term effects.
A little over a year later I tried to get it out. Surgery was unsuccessful though, as the bone fused around the rod.
Surgeon said he was afraid to re-break the bone if he had pounded on the extractor any harder.
I thought "meh wimpy doctor, I'll go to a different guy"
Another year later I went to a different guy, big dude, this guy will surely get it out, right? Wrong, same results. I wake up from surgery and they're like, sorry we couldn't get this thing out.
They did take all the retaining screws out and shaved the end of the rod I think.
Almost 20 years later I really have no major side effects. I did have some shoulder issues just recently though but I don't think it was related to the rod.

UpTiTe
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10/12/2020 9:45am
Mine was just a little bit worse than yours, I did not get surgery and I later I regretted it.

motoman617
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10/12/2020 9:52am
I also had the same type of break on my left arm. I had a rod put in mine also. Mine was done in 1978 so things have changed since then. Break happened in June and the rod stayed in till end of November. Was back on the bike in January and racing again in February.
10/12/2020 10:59am
Looking at 1 view of a pre-reduction film, I say plate it. You are young, have an active job, and are a moto rider. I would be suspicious of any surgeon who wants to to nail/rod it, as you have to violate your rotator cuff to do that. You are too young for that. Your doctor is right to say that non-op is an option-- there are no absolute indications to fix it in your case. Ortho guys argue about whether to fix these frequently. It really is up to you.

The main study for non-operative treatment in these fractures was done by a bunch of British guys back in the 1960s if I remember correctly. Because of that, older surgeons are going to be more likely to treat it non operatively. The younger surgeons are not as willing to accept a possible 20 degree varus/valgus angulation or 30 degree anterior angulation deformity in your arm, which the Brits deemed acceptable more than 50 years ago. As a moto rider, I wouldn't want that deformity either.

Find a Trauma or Upper Extremity fellowship trained orthopedist to evaluate you. Sports trained docs may only do these cases every few years depending on the attending and their practice environment. Some of them, depending on where they practice, may do quite a few of these cases (level 1/2 trauma center/ski town/etc), but most will not. You should ask your doc how many of these they do a year. Remember, the ED referred you to whatever doctor was on call that day, not the best doctor for this fracture pattern.

To fix this, you will have to completely expose the radial nerve, which is crossing over the spiral groove right about where your fracture is. It looks like your current doc has you well informed of the risks and benefits of that.
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Falcon
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10/12/2020 11:03am
If it were my arm, I'd lean toward natural healing as much as possible. Think long-term and avoid potential nerve damage.
brocsdad
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10/12/2020 11:50am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 11:51am
One of our friends who was a top amateur broke his humerus a few months ago and they had to move the nerve to plate the arm. Now he has nerve palsy and does not feeling or normal function in his hand. He was taking some sort of shock treatments and but the signals are causing his hand to clinch instead of open up. The last I heard they were going to visit a neurosurgeon because the doc had never seen that happen.

After reading about nerve palsy the function in the hand take months to years to function correctly again.

He's still a teen so I hope they figure it out.

Best of luck in your decision.

Spagina767
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10/12/2020 12:57pm
Tons of great responses in here, guys. Thanks so much for the responses.

The doc I used is the one that did my knee surgery. He’s a sports doctor and I like him, I just do not feel very well informed. Currently in the office at another doctor who works at Virginia Commonwealth University sports medicine.

I’m extremely active. Weightlifting, moto, hunting, wakeboarding, snowboarding, surfing, mountain biking, etc. I have 5 acres I need to take care of and a job where I need both arms. I hate to say it like this, but damn I want to be back to normal ASAP because that’s what life demands of me! I want to make the correct decision though, so we will see what the doc has to say in a minute.
KAWI642
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10/12/2020 1:10pm
My Son had a Very similar break back on August 16th. They sent us home with the "no surgery" route but after a day and talking to the chief surgeon we opted for the surgery. Just the pain involved made it a no brainer. He's healing well with no nerve issues and should be cleared end of this month to begin activities. We gonna take it slow with going back to riding that's a bad break. Goal is by Thanksgiving being back on the bike some.
philG
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10/12/2020 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 3:00pm
Did mine just above the elbow, clean break, 6 weeks in plaster, raced after 8 weeks.. no long term effects.

Son in law spiralled his arm wrestling ( its on the internet apparently) , no surgery , did it 3 weeks before Xmas , plaster for 8 weeks, really light use for 3 months, just got the all clear that he can use it as normal.

10/12/2020 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 3:31pm
I broke mine 1 inch from the top, they taped my arm to my body for 7 weeks.
They didn't give me an option of surgery.

I still only have limited movement, although most of that may be due to lack of rehab.

45 years later arthritis limits range of motion.
a353
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10/12/2020 3:35pm
So, in 2013 I shattered the ball on my humorous. It took 9 screws and plate to put it back together. I was 42 at the time and riding behind my son at a public practice track. They had big bikes and little bikes on the track at the same time. No crazy triples. Just riding behind him to keep him safe from other big bikes coming up on him. My throttle stuck and I hit the ground hard.

I have a professional job so, I was more embarrassed and frustrated by the situation, than the actual injury.

My advice, make sure to take control of your care. The system is set up to get you in and get you out. I had the surgery and the injury got infected.

Had to go in for a second surgery to clean the infection out. After that, told them that the infection was still there and they called me crazy.

Two years later I had a surgery to remove the screws and plate and guess what? The infection was still there. I kinda wonder what would have happened if I hadn’t forced the 3rd surgery

Listen to your body and ask your physician to respect your decisions. I recovered with no significant residual effects. Wishing you the best. Good luck.
yamahaha131
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10/12/2020 5:43pm
I broke mine in 2 places at 18 years old. Very painful injury and super inconvenient for daily life. Healed naturally but my arm is crooked. It affects a few things like pronating my arm flat enough to type comfortably, I compensate at the shoulder. I don’t notice it riding or any other physical activity. If I had to do it again and had a good surgeon I would probably go for it but my doctor also scared me away from surgery with the radial nerve talk. An orthopod I had 2 years ago after breaking my elbow said he locates the nerve and protects it, has done lots of humeral fractures. He was 100% confident and claimed he’d had no issues.
MX558
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10/12/2020 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2020 6:15pm
Spagina767 wrote:
Thanks guys. My surgeon is a sports ortho. He did my knee and that was great but I don’t feel the same warm and fuzzy about...
Thanks guys. My surgeon is a sports ortho. He did my knee and that was great but I don’t feel the same warm and fuzzy about my arm.

I set up a follow up second opinion at VCU in Richmond today with a sports doctor that works with all the college athletes. We’ll see what he says!
Go to an upper extremity specialist as there is a difference . I'm not a believer in jack of all trades . I did my ulna and elbow and the first guy didn't do surgery when he should have . I wasted 2 months on that blunder

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