Broc Tickle provisional antidoping suspension from WADA/FIM

Betuel
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4/14/2018 5:45pm
I just went to one of the biggest nutrition shops in north Orange County and ask for a pre-workout that had DMAA. Was told they are not being sold anymore. This is the only products that now has it and can be banned and removed from shelves at any time. All those saying they can just get it at GNC or Walmart are just trying to find a way to make an excuse...


honda907
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4/14/2018 6:01pm
Betuel wrote:
I just went to one of the biggest nutrition shops in north Orange County and ask for a pre-workout that had DMAA. Was told they are...
I just went to one of the biggest nutrition shops in north Orange County and ask for a pre-workout that had DMAA. Was told they are not being sold anymore. This is the only products that now has it and can be banned and removed from shelves at any time. All those saying they can just get it at GNC or Walmart are just trying to find a way to make an excuse...


Seems to be lots of people talking about how common this stuff is. Even a guy said you can get it in cereal. What do people think, we are stupid??

The banned substances are out there for a reason--it helps performance in some way. Most times you just can't take a cough medicine ( There are exceptions of course) and get a ban for life sentience.

If all is true, he got what he deserved since there is a precedent set with Cade and James.
burn1986
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4/14/2018 6:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 6:06pm
ML512 wrote:
ASADA nailed the Moss brothers, who were straight up on another form of steroids...not something minor. Sure, lets blame the testers, not the cheaters.
I’m not sure about the Moss brothers, but the move to bring in the WADA was like bringing in Mike Tyson to discipline 10yo girls badminton, and then letting him punch one of them full force for using a different kind of string on her racquet.

And as the little girl lays bleeding and on the verge of dying, everyone says “Well, heck, she knew the rules and that’s what she got.”
kiwifan
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4/14/2018 6:05pm
Titan1 wrote:
Oh please...that’s crap. They aren’t saints out there risking their lives for our benefit...they only care about us so much as their income is dependent on...
Oh please...that’s crap. They aren’t saints out there risking their lives for our benefit...they only care about us so much as their income is dependent on us buying their sponsors products so they can keep paying.

And they aren’t even “risking their lives”...saying so is a bit melodramitic in my opinion...yes what they do is dangerous...but when was the last time a pro died on a supercross track? if dudes were dying left and right then it could be said they are risking their lives...but even then they wouldn’t be doing it for “our entertainment”...they’d be doing it for fame and fortune and their own pride and ego (same reasons they all do it now).

These guys are talented on a bike, but humans...and I don’t know the truth about how this ended up in BT’s system...we probably never will. And I won’t vilify him, but I won’t put it past any of these guys to cheat. Big egos...millions of dollars...pressure...future income opportunities (rides)...it all adds up.
ando wrote:
An unpopular opinion around here but one I agree with 100%.
I also tend to agree, especially the first two paragraphs

The Shop

Steve 396
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4/14/2018 6:05pm
ML512 wrote:
As we mentioned in our article, it used to be used in Nasal Decongestant but hasn't been since the mid 80's. This supplement has actually been...
As we mentioned in our article, it used to be used in Nasal Decongestant but hasn't been since the mid 80's. This supplement has actually been banned from use in any product in some countries due to side-effects that have been linked to death.
Paul333 wrote:
What products is it found in the US?

I’d bet they are rather benign.

ML512 wrote:
It can be found in certain supplements that can be purchased online, based on some quick searches there's many places you can't buy products with higher...
It can be found in certain supplements that can be purchased online, based on some quick searches there's many places you can't buy products with higher concentrations of it over the counter due to health concerns. The ultimate question is how much of it was found in his system. If it's such a small amount it was in some sort of standard publicly available supplement or if it's high enough that it was a product with concentrated levels of it.
Im not going to read the last 7 pages of this so maybe this has already been answered but...

Does it make a difference to the powers that be if its a high or low level? I suspect they don't care and the suspension will be the same length either way. If it came from something that can be bought commercially I don't give a shit if any rider uses it. It it wasn't that's a different story. But it doesn't matter what I think.
daemon616
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4/14/2018 6:12pm
NVA57 wrote:
Wow. Tickle is the last guy I would suspect to take doping. Unsure
Yeah right. Factory ride. Under performing. Of course I'd believe it.
usp4u
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4/14/2018 6:13pm
Chickle is probably bumming. You guys stay here, I'm gonna go check up on her.....I said, 'You guys stay here!, jeez'
MX45
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4/14/2018 6:16pm
It's a lose/lose situation.
burn1986
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4/14/2018 6:26pm
MX45 wrote:
It's a lose/lose situation.
The promoters could come up with their own discipline committee.
Premixed112
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4/14/2018 6:29pm
burn1986 wrote:
I’m not sure about the Moss brothers, but the move to bring in the WADA was like bringing in Mike Tyson to discipline 10yo girls badminton...
I’m not sure about the Moss brothers, but the move to bring in the WADA was like bringing in Mike Tyson to discipline 10yo girls badminton, and then letting him punch one of them full force for using a different kind of string on her racquet.

And as the little girl lays bleeding and on the verge of dying, everyone says “Well, heck, she knew the rules and that’s what she got.”
That's a very good analogy, and the last part is pretty accurate for some of the posters in this thread.
ML512
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4/14/2018 6:38pm
Paul333 wrote:
What products is it found in the US?

I’d bet they are rather benign.

ML512 wrote:
It can be found in certain supplements that can be purchased online, based on some quick searches there's many places you can't buy products with higher...
It can be found in certain supplements that can be purchased online, based on some quick searches there's many places you can't buy products with higher concentrations of it over the counter due to health concerns. The ultimate question is how much of it was found in his system. If it's such a small amount it was in some sort of standard publicly available supplement or if it's high enough that it was a product with concentrated levels of it.
Steve 396 wrote:
Im not going to read the last 7 pages of this so maybe this has already been answered but... Does it make a difference to the...
Im not going to read the last 7 pages of this so maybe this has already been answered but...

Does it make a difference to the powers that be if its a high or low level? I suspect they don't care and the suspension will be the same length either way. If it came from something that can be bought commercially I don't give a shit if any rider uses it. It it wasn't that's a different story. But it doesn't matter what I think.
As it's been mentioned on this page, products have actually been removed from counters due to this substance, FDA has removed it under further investigation.

In WADA's case, if a synthetic substance (not naturally found in the human body) is proven to be a performance enhancer, they typically ban it. If they go to a maximum amount allowed in the body, athletes with money and good doctors will identify these substances and run their guy as close to the limit on everything they can. In cycling these days that seems to be the case, as many riders are popped for substances allowed in the body, but they're over the set limit.
plowboy
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4/14/2018 6:41pm
Sounds like these guys are walking a serious tight rope with so many banned substances that may show up in any food anywhere. Having said that, those that think the penalty is too lengthy have never been in the military or some other large organization. The first person popped gets a pass or slap on the wrist because they "didnt know ". So they notify everyone in person or by a letter they have to sign and return that so and so is forbidden. Every subsequent violator is made an example. They reckon if you see the guy beside you getting getting kicked in the nuts for doing the wrong thing you won't do that same wrong thing. Sucks if you're 28 and it pretty much ends your career. Sucks even worse if all you did was eat a nutrition bar that was laying on the complimentary counter at your hotel.
bsharkey
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4/14/2018 8:30pm
Worst case scenario he can't race Supercross it shouldn't affect Outdoors
KurtJ99
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4/14/2018 8:42pm
Is it known that any riders self test under the same protocol to validate they are clean (or at least test clean like lance)? Seems prudent if you are a factory rider since the penalties are so extreme.
Asimo
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4/14/2018 9:31pm
ML512 wrote:
As it's been mentioned on this page, products have actually been removed from counters due to this substance, FDA has removed it under further investigation. In...
As it's been mentioned on this page, products have actually been removed from counters due to this substance, FDA has removed it under further investigation.

In WADA's case, if a synthetic substance (not naturally found in the human body) is proven to be a performance enhancer, they typically ban it. If they go to a maximum amount allowed in the body, athletes with money and good doctors will identify these substances and run their guy as close to the limit on everything they can. In cycling these days that seems to be the case, as many riders are popped for substances allowed in the body, but they're over the set limit.
Its still being sold. 1,3 and 1,4 is harder to find now, but the 1,5 version is around (Tickles probably) and also DMHA. You can find all versions pretty much anywhere with a little looking.

These companies hire chemists to constantly change the formula just enough to stay legal. From what Ive heard, a 1,6 version is even gnarlier but not out yet.

ando
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4/14/2018 9:37pm
bsharkey wrote:
Worst case scenario he can't race Supercross it shouldn't affect Outdoors
No he can’t. MX Sports has USADA as their anti-doping agency, who are affiliated with and use the same protocols and penalties as WADA.
olds cool
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4/14/2018 10:38pm
NVA57 wrote:
Wow. Tickle is the last guy I would suspect to take doping. Unsure
daemon616 wrote:
Yeah right. Factory ride. Under performing. Of course I'd believe it.
Under performing? How many factory rides are there in the 450 class? He's still 7th in the points as of right now. How many factory riders are 8th or further back in the points. Are only the top 6 guys performing to expectations? Should we have only 5 or 6 guys racing since everybody else is "under performing"? Whistling
Drtbykr
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4/16/2018 11:52am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 11:53am
I don’t know anything about chemistry, but I do know about money and livelihood.

Weege says Redbull has a clause in their contract that says if you are caught for this type of infraction,
you are fined your years salary, x2! Ouch.

Lots of lawyering up and interesting meetings and phone calls going on today. Lawyers will do well, they usually do.

RD seems to like Broc as a person, that might help some. Powerful man in global moto.


Asimo
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4/16/2018 12:01pm
Drtbykr wrote:
I don’t know anything about chemistry, but I do know about money and livelihood. Weege says Redbull has a clause in their contract that says if...
I don’t know anything about chemistry, but I do know about money and livelihood.

Weege says Redbull has a clause in their contract that says if you are caught for this type of infraction,
you are fined your years salary, x2! Ouch.

Lots of lawyering up and interesting meetings and phone calls going on today. Lawyers will do well, they usually do.

RD seems to like Broc as a person, that might help some. Powerful man in global moto.


Help him how? The results are from a 3rd party lab.

Drtbykr
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4/16/2018 12:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 12:08pm
Some comparisons are being made to the RC gas penalty, or lack there of. RD has pull.

But you are probably correct, Broc is going down. My fav. JS7 helped fill stadiums, and he went down.

ando
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4/16/2018 2:54pm
Drtbykr wrote:
Some comparisons are being made to the RC gas penalty, or lack there of. RD has pull. But you are probably correct, Broc is going down...
Some comparisons are being made to the RC gas penalty, or lack there of. RD has pull.

But you are probably correct, Broc is going down. My fav. JS7 helped fill stadiums, and he went down.

You obviously don’t know much about WADA.
jsmi33966
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4/16/2018 3:10pm
I think we can all assume it was a mistake and was not intentionally taking it to enhance his performance. It may not be around as much as it was in the past but DMAA is still around and I know at work we have 3 containers of old school NO explode in the pantry. Im about to look if it has DMAA. I know the old super pump 250 had DMAA.

I feel confident it was not intentional doping.
midwestmoto
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4/16/2018 3:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 3:50pm
https://motocross.transworld.net/news/roger-decoster-broc-tickle-wada-s…

Wow, Couple interesting quotes from the article below.

""On Saturday afternoon at the 2018 Minneapolis Supercross round of the 2018 Monster Energy Supercross Series, we shared a few moments with Red Bull KTM Team Manager Roger DeCoster and learned more about how the team was notified and what the next steps in the process are. Surprisingly at that point, the team had very little contact with the FIM in Europe and there was no clear information from the FIM officials located in the United States. DeCoster told us that KTM’s legal department had only two business days to file an appeal and that because the team was notified late Thursday evening, Friday would be counted as one of those business days."

"DeCoster also told us of a clause that is in every Red Bull KTM racer’s contract that is in place to keep them from using a banned substance. Should a rider test positive for a substance and be barred from competition, they are required to pay back KTM all of their earnings from contracts."

Question: "A lot has been said about Aldon's program, because it's very regimented and everyone is doing or taking the same thing, like how Aldon is a big proponent of MindFX. It's not like Broc is doing something different than anyone else is.

Answer: He is doing the same things. The guys that work with Aldon were tested the same day also like Marvin was tested and Zach was tested. That was the biggest test that they have done in the number of riders, I think. They are all okay, so you would think that if one did it, they all would have it."
4/16/2018 4:11pm
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents. Jason Anderson opened up a pandora's box saying that Broc "went to GNC" to pick up supplements. That from the start is a bad sign. Something isn't adding up; either a product they all take had trace amounts OR Broc isn't telling the whole story. Time will tell.
Asimo
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4/16/2018 5:03pm
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents...
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents. Jason Anderson opened up a pandora's box saying that Broc "went to GNC" to pick up supplements. That from the start is a bad sign. Something isn't adding up; either a product they all take had trace amounts OR Broc isn't telling the whole story. Time will tell.
Nah. DMAA is WHY someone would buy the product.
DMAA is why one would choose that over another that doesn't have it.. Otherwise, why buy it?

My old neighbor can't keep any version of his DMAA products in stock, no matter if its DMAA, DMHA or any of the other versions.
Non DMAA products don't sell. There is no point.

In that industry, if anything, it would list DMAA, and Have nothing but Sugar!
slipdog
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4/16/2018 5:11pm
jsmi33966 wrote:
I think we can all assume it was a mistake and was not intentionally taking it to enhance his performance. It may not be around as...
I think we can all assume it was a mistake and was not intentionally taking it to enhance his performance. It may not be around as much as it was in the past but DMAA is still around and I know at work we have 3 containers of old school NO explode in the pantry. Im about to look if it has DMAA. I know the old super pump 250 had DMAA.

I feel confident it was not intentional doping.
You know what they say about assuming, don't you?
4/16/2018 5:24pm
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents...
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents. Jason Anderson opened up a pandora's box saying that Broc "went to GNC" to pick up supplements. That from the start is a bad sign. Something isn't adding up; either a product they all take had trace amounts OR Broc isn't telling the whole story. Time will tell.
Asimo wrote:
Nah. DMAA is WHY someone would buy the product. DMAA is why one would choose that over another that doesn't have it.. Otherwise, why buy it...
Nah. DMAA is WHY someone would buy the product.
DMAA is why one would choose that over another that doesn't have it.. Otherwise, why buy it?

My old neighbor can't keep any version of his DMAA products in stock, no matter if its DMAA, DMHA or any of the other versions.
Non DMAA products don't sell. There is no point.

In that industry, if anything, it would list DMAA, and Have nothing but Sugar!
Are you the self proclaimed expert on DMAA because " your neighbor got Uber rich from it". Quit speaking like you know for a FACT why someone would buy a supplement. It seems like you got a boner over this topic.
Drtbykr
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4/16/2018 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 5:59pm
Drtbykr wrote:
Some comparisons are being made to the RC gas penalty, or lack there of. RD has pull. But you are probably correct, Broc is going down...
Some comparisons are being made to the RC gas penalty, or lack there of. RD has pull.

But you are probably correct, Broc is going down. My fav. JS7 helped fill stadiums, and he went down.

ando wrote:
You obviously don’t know much about WADA.
That’s true. I do know the former head of the organization was a Canadian named Dick Pound.
I would have gone by Richard.

I agree, deep caa-caa. I also know a couple of Paralympic Gold Medalists and their view on cheaters is along the lines of “shoot them”.

But races are held every weekend pretty well, Olympics every 4 years. Big dif.

This will not be positive for anyone, but maybe the penalties will be re-evaluated for MX.

A-Rod made some dough after testing positive. I know, apples and oranges.
slipdog
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4/16/2018 6:14pm
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents...
There are products which may not know if they have DMAA in it. You literally depend on the manufacturer to state what is in the contents. Jason Anderson opened up a pandora's box saying that Broc "went to GNC" to pick up supplements. That from the start is a bad sign. Something isn't adding up; either a product they all take had trace amounts OR Broc isn't telling the whole story. Time will tell.
Asimo wrote:
Nah. DMAA is WHY someone would buy the product. DMAA is why one would choose that over another that doesn't have it.. Otherwise, why buy it...
Nah. DMAA is WHY someone would buy the product.
DMAA is why one would choose that over another that doesn't have it.. Otherwise, why buy it?

My old neighbor can't keep any version of his DMAA products in stock, no matter if its DMAA, DMHA or any of the other versions.
Non DMAA products don't sell. There is no point.

In that industry, if anything, it would list DMAA, and Have nothing but Sugar!
Are you the self proclaimed expert on DMAA because " your neighbor got Uber rich from it". Quit speaking like you know for a FACT why...
Are you the self proclaimed expert on DMAA because " your neighbor got Uber rich from it". Quit speaking like you know for a FACT why someone would buy a supplement. It seems like you got a boner over this topic.
You must be new here.
kzizok
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4/16/2018 6:19pm
Anyone care to take a guess to what would happen if someone inserted a post in this thread about two stroke Jet Ski’s and/or EFI?

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