Bring our sport out of the stone age

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1/1/2020 8:27 PM

milamcreek wrote:

Ok so I have been thinking about ways to help our sport. First I would attack the low hanging fruit. I've been thinking about this one thing for a while.
Today out at village Creek MX ft worth TX. Although I don't mind paying 30 for organized practice I would like the facility to put the effort in.
1 no more porta potty bathroom. My wife and daughters are so much better than that. Come on how can we be taken serious when we don't even provide brick and mortar bathrooms at the local levels.
Before anyone says anything I have owned and operated my own MX facility. Yes I had porta potty. I had a women's only and two for men.
30 per rider should equal proper track maintenance, flaggers, and medic staff on site. Which village always provides.
What are some other suggestions y'all can think of.
Another thing it our attitudes it's either win or nothing, we should recognize that all participants are doing something they love, we love and treat each other with respect. At the professional level why do we only concentrate on the podium finishers. All of these guys including us lay it on the line each time we go out.
Interview 4th 5th and so on get their take on things.
Ok I will stop rambling

If our sport is to "come out of the dark ages" the first thing that needs to happen is for people paying $30 to quit thinking that suddenly equates to better infrastructure suddenly popping up. You claim you've run your own track and had all the things you claim needs changing so why didn't you charge $30, make the changes and create your own top flight track?

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1/1/2020 8:30 PM

Zacka 161 wrote:

It's really not financially feasible without government support I think. Sports that are played on public sports fields im sure get some local government support to maintain the field and manage the facilities? Either that or a number of sports are played on the field and as such the cost is spread around?

Its seems in Australia the local cricket/AFL fields are managed by the local councils, which means parking, playing and bathroom facilities are mostly covered.

I lived as the caretaker of the motocross track in Alice Springs in the middle of Australia and any piece of building or infrastructure came from government grants, either local or state sports, infrastructure, or community development grants. Without this it wouldn't have been possible for the club to have descent and accessible facilities. Is this how it works in other states in Aus?

Are community development or sports grants something thats available in America?

motogrady wrote:

There was a guy that really tried that route a few years back, here in the Baltimore area.
Politicians and track requirements needed by them and their engineers made it not feasible.

Felt sorry for the guy, he put a lot of time and effort into it.
His motivation was the shutting down of legal riding areas in the Western part of the state. This was done so Maryland could classify the forests out there as virgin or whatever, which increased their value and raised the bond rating the State now gets
for it. So they, the State, can borrow more money.

Sure, Annapolis, the state Capitol and their zoning/grant money paid him lip service for a few years, but they just killed him with rules, regulations
and applications till he just gave it up.

Shame really, he had plans for half a dozen tracks,
that would have been kinda State run, but they really did not want it. Not like they did the forests and bond ratings, that's for sure.
So they killed it, in a nice kind of way.

I think the problem is it seems he was trying to do something too big rather than build it up from a grass roots level.

Improve facilities at existing tracks through small grants. And then show community involvement and apply for another small grant to improve some sort of facility.

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1/1/2020 8:34 PM

milamcreek wrote:

Ok in 2009 the price to ride around here was 15 per rider.
Listen all, what I'm saying is that we are in the 21st century the simple things like indoor plumbing is a good thing. Not the only thing mentioned.
Point of the 15 per rider is now it's doubled and I own a battery distribution business that for 28 years I have put money back into and is very successful.
Point is there is opportunities for track owners including myself to put money back in to their facilities. However this topic was started so that we could think together not point fingers at one another.
Have we moved past the ability to just have a open discussion about improvements. Damn, and if you know me you know how much I support MX

I agree with you but most will be happy with status quo and will complain that the sport is dying

Meanwhile, all the GP facilities have full amenities and motocross in Europe is growing.

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1/1/2020 9:16 PM

I agree that the bathrooms are an issue. I convinced some family friends to join us at the track and the wife was disgusted. The family went and played soccer instead of getting into moto.

Conversely I recognize the challenge of running a track and tip my hat to anyone who does it.

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1/1/2020 9:27 PM

Grenader26 wrote:

I think the only tracks in the DFW metroplex that use porta poopers are Village creek and Oak hill. When Nocona reopened they spent a bunch of money and made nice bathrooms and put in seating for guests. No one went and it closed down again.

He got foreclosed on because he didn’t know how to run a track, nor prep it, and handfuls of other dumb decisions and actions. It’s way out there too, you literally have to drive by oak hill and river to get here...

One thing I’ve learned about village...Terri will never go the extra mile on anything. That’s why the jump faces get touched once a year when he pays Vernon to redo the track...

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1/1/2020 9:33 PM

I haven't read all the posts but I gotta ask, isn't part of the reason we love it so much is the fact it's not mainstream? What's with all the threads on getting it to grow? Honest question. Is it for more sponsors? More money? More industry jobs? Better bathrooms at local tracks? More reasons to complain about noise and tracks closing? Honestly...what makes you want it grow?

I've been racing/riding for almost 40 years. I have a wife and 3 year old that I am trying to get to involved now and it's awesome. Bottom line - be happy with ya got now cause ya know, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

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1/1/2020 9:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 10:25 PM

kzizok wrote:

More filler/artificial traffic threads like this should solve all of MX’s problems.

TIA

I’d seen your signature before, but after an email from another user asking about your reply and sig, I guess it’s time to respond directly.

Do we get a fair amount of spammers who try to sneak links in on the site? Sure. Those are often in the About Me section of their profile. Occasionally, they also do an innocuous test post or two to see if there are any filters in place against new users. Then they’ll drop a link in. Those would fit within the description of what you’re talking about. Once they're discovered, we delete all their posts, and lock the account.

Do I think the thread in question falls into that category? Not really. There is too much info with actual MX knowledge, and specifity to the area being discussed

I can tell you that we do have quite a few things in place to combat this. There are bans on certain email domains used by known spammers, and we vigorously remove spam and troll accounts. Also, Maverick has some tools that he can use to blast posts that he spots as questionable. I generally hear from him fairly often about accounts that he thinks are questionable. Don’t worry, we’ve got this.

I hope no one is suggesting that we pay to have people come in and post to boost traffic. First off, it’s not really necessary. Secondly, that would be shady, and we don’t run that kind of business.

We also don’t artificially boost our numbers on social media platforms by paying for users.

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1/1/2020 9:44 PM

Huge sections that only some would hit.

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1/1/2020 9:46 PM

IMO one of the biggest things missing in outdoor moto is spectator/family friendly track design. Once fencing became part of the norm, being able to seek out good spots to hang and watch and take photos has gone away. Most tracks make no attempt to route a track so that it keeps coming back into spectator view so they can follow the action.

I got 5 of us together this week, with 3 girls not riding and 2 dogs and unfortunately they merely tolerated it because we wanted them to come along, but they won't do it again for years just like in the past. There is nothing for them, especially on practice days.

I'm involved in some track changes that will follow more of a modified clover leaf layout which should help some, but it's an uphill battle for the girls. I guess I'll need to grab a minibike to give them something to do, but honestly they don't want to, it's just me pushing. It's a guy sport, and when you are steadily away from your spouse to go have fun it eventually causes trouble for many.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

1/1/2020 10:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 10:09 PM

Grenader26 wrote:

I think the only tracks in the DFW metroplex that use porta poopers are Village creek and Oak hill. When Nocona reopened they spent a bunch of money and made nice bathrooms and put in seating for guests. No one went and it closed down again.

Hudd_421 wrote:

He got foreclosed on because he didn’t know how to run a track, nor prep it, and handfuls of other dumb decisions and actions. It’s way out there too, you literally have to drive by oak hill and river to get here...

One thing I’ve learned about village...Terri will never go the extra mile on anything. That’s why the jump faces get touched once a year when he pays Vernon to redo the track...

Village is one of the few that does provide flaggers and ems for every practice day. He hires an AMA ref for every race. That man gets in the dirt.
That's a lot more than I can say for many other track owners in that area.

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1/1/2020 10:08 PM

Electric motorcycles would help.

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1/1/2020 10:15 PM

Grenader26 wrote:

I think the only tracks in the DFW metroplex that use porta poopers are Village creek and Oak hill. When Nocona reopened they spent a bunch of money and made nice bathrooms and put in seating for guests. No one went and it closed down again.

Hudd_421 wrote:

He got foreclosed on because he didn’t know how to run a track, nor prep it, and handfuls of other dumb decisions and actions. It’s way out there too, you literally have to drive by oak hill and river to get here...

One thing I’ve learned about village...Terri will never go the extra mile on anything. That’s why the jump faces get touched once a year when he pays Vernon to redo the track...

Racer_Twentynine wrote:

Village is one of the few that does provide flaggers and ems for every practice day. He hires an AMA ref for every race. That man gets in the dirt.
That's a lot more than I can say for many other track owners in that area.

If he gets in the dirt, how come I see other random dudes in the water truck or doing 2 laps dragging the track and calling it “prep”

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1/1/2020 10:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 10:20 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

IMO one of the biggest things missing in outdoor moto is spectator/family friendly track design. Once fencing became part of the norm, being able to seek out good spots to hang and watch and take photos has gone away. Most tracks make no attempt to route a track so that it keeps coming back into spectator view so they can follow the action.

I got 5 of us together this week, with 3 girls not riding and 2 dogs and unfortunately they merely tolerated it because we wanted them to come along, but they won't do it again for years just like in the past. There is nothing for them, especially on practice days.

I'm involved in some track changes that will follow more of a modified clover leaf layout which should help some, but it's an uphill battle for the girls. I guess I'll need to grab a minibike to give them something to do, but honestly they don't want to, it's just me pushing. It's a guy sport, and when you are steadily away from your spouse to go have fun it eventually causes trouble for many.

You have many Good points in this response that I could Reply about , but one I have been wondering about lately is why outdoor tracks are as long as they are especially at the local level , it seems like making tracks a little smaller would be better, Much better viewing and and keeping Spectators involved, Many outdoor tracks arent good for viewing as you said. And honestly shorter would probably be better for the racing as well. Right now it seems like the average outdoor track is about 1 mile in length. And winds through tree's etc. And are pretty much terrible for spectating and Make for a ton of seperation. With very little actual racing. As in battling back and forth.
If an outdoor Track was smaller and 100% in view Like a Supercross track wouldn't that be a good thing ?

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1/1/2020 10:26 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

IMO one of the biggest things missing in outdoor moto is spectator/family friendly track design. Once fencing became part of the norm, being able to seek out good spots to hang and watch and take photos has gone away. Most tracks make no attempt to route a track so that it keeps coming back into spectator view so they can follow the action.

I got 5 of us together this week, with 3 girls not riding and 2 dogs and unfortunately they merely tolerated it because we wanted them to come along, but they won't do it again for years just like in the past. There is nothing for them, especially on practice days.

I'm involved in some track changes that will follow more of a modified clover leaf layout which should help some, but it's an uphill battle for the girls. I guess I'll need to grab a minibike to give them something to do, but honestly they don't want to, it's just me pushing. It's a guy sport, and when you are steadily away from your spouse to go have fun it eventually causes trouble for many.

Tarz483 wrote:

You have many Good points in this response that I could Reply about , but one I have been wondering about lately is why outdoor tracks are as long as they are especially at the local level , it seems like making tracks a little smaller would be better, Much better viewing and and keeping Spectators involved, Many outdoor tracks arent good for viewing as you said. And honestly shorter would probably be better for the racing as well. Right now it seems like the average outdoor track is about 1 mile in length. And winds through tree's etc. And are pretty much terrible for spectating and Make for a ton of seperation. With very little actual racing. As in battling back and forth.
If an outdoor Track was smaller and 100% in view Like a Supercross track wouldn't that be a good thing ?

I'm as guilty as others at looking at a piece of property (a blank canvas) and thinking what would be coolest as a rider to use the land. With modern motocross being able to be built at will, jumps, berms, elevation changes to some degree etc., they could be purpose built with the spectators in mind as a goal. No track owner wants to go make a bunch of wholesale changes and basically make a ton of work for themselves to make changes, it's so much easier if it's done from the start.

The length of the track is also contributing to the problem, and while it's fun to ride a long track, it's a bitch to keep it maintained especially in the summer. Again, no one wants to undo what they've already done, not only for the work involved but the "change factor" that will eliminate some of the tracks previous calling cards.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

1/1/2020 10:29 PM

I've always said shaded starting lines and staging areas would be nice.

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1/1/2020 10:38 PM

Rather than just complain online, it would help significantly if everyone posting here would volunteer some time at their local track or association.

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1/1/2020 11:14 PM

As they say, “it takes a village”. To build and maintain an Mx track in western Canada. Lots of tracks are run by not for profit clubs, with land made available by landowners that support the sport (very special people), or local municipalities that make public lands available to the clubs. Communities with mx Travis have the most mxers that come from them and belong to the club. Motocrossers come from all walks of life and tend to contribute through equipment hours and volunteer hours to their club.

Also, in Canada, not for profit clubs can apply for government funds created by the government run lotteries, as well as provincial/municipal grants if you get your municipality’s support, for Capital projects. This is how the Drumheller off road vehicle association (DORVA) installed the first manual watering system (government grants 50% and donations 9in kind 50%). They have since installed an automated watering system and likely generated the capital investment the same way. I know in Manitoba, there are a lot of hard working farmers that have built their own facilities and maintain them (Shadow valley in Morden, Prairie Hill in Pilot Mound, Farmboys Raceway in Brandon, holding open practice and races, but I think they are all willing to accept our help as volunteers wherever possible.

For Mx to survive in Western Canada, it takes more than just race or practice fees. It also requires the riders commitment and support to their riding facilities, wether private or public to ensure that gates to the track stay open. It take a village.

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1/2/2020 1:02 AM

downard254 wrote:

I do septic system installs. Take the price of a septic permit, pay a soil scientist for a soil analysis, pay to have a system installed ($10,000 minimum), then install a well if you don’t already have one, build the bathrooms, several thousand dollars more, at least. I’m pretty sure you can kiss that $30/day riding fee goodbye. I don’t have a problem with porta Johns, if they help keep the costs low for the local tracks.

plowboy wrote:

Exactly. A modern well maintained port o pot is good enough for anyone associated with moto and that includes wife/kids. The biggest problem is guys that feel the need to hose the whole place down. They'd do the same in a nice pisser.

You tried using one in 45 degree ( Celsius ) you’ll break a sweat before you start pushing....
That’s 113 in US terms fuck that shit ill poop n pee in the bushes.

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1/2/2020 1:35 AM

Milam creek was a fun track I thought. Loved the jumps. It was gone way to quick.

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1/2/2020 1:47 AM

The way I see it is, that in America tracks are run like a business, and it just doesn't work. If you want prep-staff, flaggers, medics etc. all profit will end up in salaries.

To me, 30 USD per session seems massive. And coming from Scandinavia, that says alot 😂 For comparison, for 200 USD I get a seasonal pass, and am able to practice three days a week all year.

Over here in Europe the majority of tracks are driven by clubs, who rely on volunteering, and it seems to be working quite well. Though there will always be people sneaking out of that too.

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1/2/2020 2:18 AM

downard254 wrote:

I do septic system installs. Take the price of a septic permit, pay a soil scientist for a soil analysis, pay to have a system installed ($10,000 minimum), then install a well if you don’t already have one, build the bathrooms, several thousand dollars more, at least. I’m pretty sure you can kiss that $30/day riding fee goodbye. I don’t have a problem with porta Johns, if they help keep the costs low for the local tracks.

plowboy wrote:

Exactly. A modern well maintained port o pot is good enough for anyone associated with moto and that includes wife/kids. The biggest problem is guys that feel the need to hose the whole place down. They'd do the same in a nice pisser.

Deja New wrote:

You tried using one in 45 degree ( Celsius ) you’ll break a sweat before you start pushing....
That’s 113 in US terms fuck that shit ill poop n pee in the bushes.

Not hard to find a tree, and always carry a roll of dunny paper under the seat. Never know when you will need it. wink

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1/2/2020 2:20 AM

plowboy wrote:

Exactly. A modern well maintained port o pot is good enough for anyone associated with moto and that includes wife/kids. The biggest problem is guys that feel the need to hose the whole place down. They'd do the same in a nice pisser.

Deja New wrote:

You tried using one in 45 degree ( Celsius ) you’ll break a sweat before you start pushing....
That’s 113 in US terms fuck that shit ill poop n pee in the bushes.

jock wrote:

Not hard to find a tree, and always carry a roll of dunny paper under the seat. Never know when you will need it. wink

I got little kids mate got luxury wet wipes in the car all the time silky smooth but wiping for me w00t

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1/2/2020 3:38 AM

There are no easy answers.

Everybody has the "solution", but everybody else has an attempt to mimimize or discredit it.

Track operators have got it tough. Even the op didn't stay in the business long.

I ran tracks from '96 until '15. I loved it, and often miss it.

Would restrooms be nice? Sure. Are they going to save the sport? I doubt it.

Look at hare scrambles. They have thrived and grown in recent years, even through the recession. Not many of them have anything better than most mx tracks.

They can also be used as an argument for the track viewing. Hare scrambles kind of suck for viewing, but consistently are much better attended than mx at all levels. Even at the national level Ironman has done better with their gncc than the mx.

The fact is that our sport is struggling, and it is because so many combined factors, more injuries, complicated bikes that are way too fast for most riders, a shrinking middle class, and so many other things competing for time and disposable income.

From the track operators side, it is an increasing hassle. More expensive all the time, and less and less of a return on investment. More liability issues and sociologocal shifts just pile on.

It will take a lot more than flushing toilets.

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1/2/2020 4:19 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

I go to tracks because of the tracks.

I don’t know about you guys, but if a facility is supreme and the track is bogus I’m going riding elsewhere. I want good soil, fun obstacles, and line choices. Doesn’t bother me if the pits aren’t mowed, there’s no shade, bad shitters, poorly marked entrance... whatever. Spend every possible second on the thing that brings me there in the first place.

My number one gripe is promoters not cracking down on people riding the wrong practice. But that doesn’t prevent me from going riding at the awesome tracks.

What Jeff said...

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"A rule is a rule and without rules, there is Chaos"....Cosmo Kramer

1/2/2020 5:47 AM

One thing, the sport is going to improve with electric bikes for sure. The tracks easily have the money to install charging stations, and if they don’t, everyone can afford an extra generator to drag around that runs on GASOLINE. I think as bikes approach 15,000$, I see the recovery happening for sure.
Looking for sponsors? How about Tesla... I don’t see Lucas, Amsoil, BelRay, or Maxima wanting to deal with any series that direction much anymore. If only 80% of solar companies didn’t go bankrupt, they would have some write offs. I’m sure FMF, Pro Circuit, Hinson, and Barnett are very excited about this direction too... maybe they can get in the battery business.
What did Villopoto say about the yz250, don’t fuck up a good thing?
If you want to improve motocross facilities start first, by finding a way to get people back to the track. I agree nice bathrooms would be sweet, but it always comes down to cost. I’m fine with it, anyway I can have fun, here in D23 we are lucky to get 200 people to show up for a race, 3-5 people in a class. I remember in 2000 we had 1400, a full Gate of 250A.. what changed starting around 2004?

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1/2/2020 6:03 AM

Rick Amatuzio wrote:

One thing, the sport is going to improve with electric bikes for sure. The tracks easily have the money to install charging stations, and if they don’t, everyone can afford an extra generator to drag around that runs on GASOLINE. I think as bikes approach 15,000$, I see the recovery happening for sure.
Looking for sponsors? How about Tesla... I don’t see Lucas, Amsoil, BelRay, or Maxima wanting to deal with any series that direction much anymore. If only 80% of solar companies didn’t go bankrupt, they would have some write offs. I’m sure FMF, Pro Circuit, Hinson, and Barnett are very excited about this direction too... maybe they can get in the battery business.
What did Villopoto say about the yz250, don’t fuck up a good thing?
If you want to improve motocross facilities start first, by finding a way to get people back to the track. I agree nice bathrooms would be sweet, but it always comes down to cost. I’m fine with it, anyway I can have fun, here in D23 we are lucky to get 200 people to show up for a race, 3-5 people in a class. I remember in 2000 we had 1400, a full Gate of 250A.. what changed starting around 2004?

phones

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1/2/2020 6:07 AM

Rick Amatuzio wrote:

One thing, the sport is going to improve with electric bikes for sure. The tracks easily have the money to install charging stations, and if they don’t, everyone can afford an extra generator to drag around that runs on GASOLINE. I think as bikes approach 15,000$, I see the recovery happening for sure.
Looking for sponsors? How about Tesla... I don’t see Lucas, Amsoil, BelRay, or Maxima wanting to deal with any series that direction much anymore. If only 80% of solar companies didn’t go bankrupt, they would have some write offs. I’m sure FMF, Pro Circuit, Hinson, and Barnett are very excited about this direction too... maybe they can get in the battery business.
What did Villopoto say about the yz250, don’t fuck up a good thing?
If you want to improve motocross facilities start first, by finding a way to get people back to the track. I agree nice bathrooms would be sweet, but it always comes down to cost. I’m fine with it, anyway I can have fun, here in D23 we are lucky to get 200 people to show up for a race, 3-5 people in a class. I remember in 2000 we had 1400, a full Gate of 250A.. what changed starting around 2004?

zippytech wrote:

phones

Pretty sad... phones can take down motocross. That’s an easy excuse

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1/2/2020 6:43 AM

I use to race road racing, and phones could fuck up a whole race weekend. One time we woke up race morning and the place was packed. About 7:30 am guys started showing me the forecast. by 10 am over half the racers packed up and went home cause rain was coming. At 4pm I finished my last race.

We never seen a drop and the sun was out all day.. It was a great day to race but most of the racers had went home cause of a stupid smart phone.

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1/2/2020 6:48 AM

It's a matter of unsustainable financials in two directions. If we had our dream track with real bathroom facilities and permanent structures providing shade, wash bays, water trucks galore or sprinkler systems that worked, wells and septic fields, power hook ups, etc and then wrote off every penny to build that and buy the equipment to maintain the track, at $30/head you are barely covering the cost of man/equipment hours + diesel for track maintenance, gate personnel, flaggers and EMTs, IF you are covering that cost. (holy run on sentence batman) Not to mention insurance, property taxes, etc. Unsustainable.

If you want to be profitable and eventually pay for that upfront investment it's going to be closer to $60-$80/head plus charge for spectators. At $60-$80/head the financials become unsustainable for us as riders. $40 in fuel in the truck/motovan, $20-$100 in gas for the bike depending on home much you like your exhaust to smell nice, wear and tear on the bike/preventative maintenance, PLUS $60 to ride? You're talking $120-$150 plus every single time you ride. Ride once a week, that's around $500/mo. Have more than one rider in the family, $1,000/month. Unsustainable.

We're stuck. E bikes have the greatest potential to grow our sport. We won't be banned to the far reaches of the earth with our tracks due to noise. Soccer moms and cardigan wearing dads won't be offended by the noise and insist junior find a set of golf clubs. Those same mom's and dad's will not have to change gooey air filters or touch dirty engine oil. Drop the bike off for new tires and chains and sprockets and plug it back in. Maybe just maybe the sport grows.

But guess what? With that growth comes new headaches. Tracks will now have to invest in infrastructure to support ebikes. You'll have an "ebike" charge on top of your $30 to pay to plug in your bike. All those new wine club moms and dad's will insist not a spec of dust float up from that track. Track maintenance costs go up with the more bikes. We need more flaggers. More EMT's. More staff to maintain the facility. It's a vicious cycle that I just don't see an end to.



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1/2/2020 6:48 AM

milamcreek wrote:

Ok so I have been thinking about ways to help our sport. First I would attack the low hanging fruit. I've been thinking about this one thing for a while.
Today out at village Creek MX ft worth TX. Although I don't mind paying 30 for organized practice I would like the facility to put the effort in.
1 no more porta potty bathroom. My wife and daughters are so much better than that. Come on how can we be taken serious when we don't even provide brick and mortar bathrooms at the local levels.
Before anyone says anything I have owned and operated my own MX facility. Yes I had porta potty. I had a women's only and two for men.
30 per rider should equal proper track maintenance, flaggers, and medic staff on site. Which village always provides.
What are some other suggestions y'all can think of.
Another thing it our attitudes it's either win or nothing, we should recognize that all participants are doing something they love, we love and treat each other with respect. At the professional level why do we only concentrate on the podium finishers. All of these guys including us lay it on the line each time we go out.
Interview 4th 5th and so on get their take on things.
Ok I will stop rambling

motomike137 wrote:

If our sport is to "come out of the dark ages" the first thing that needs to happen is for people paying $30 to quit thinking that suddenly equates to better infrastructure suddenly popping up. You claim you've run your own track and had all the things you claim needs changing so why didn't you charge $30, make the changes and create your own top flight track?

Man you need to read my post again. I said I did not have these things. I started this post as a way for all of us to brainstorm together, not bash each other

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