Bring our sport out of the stone age

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1/1/2020 4:45 PM

Ok so I have been thinking about ways to help our sport. First I would attack the low hanging fruit. I've been thinking about this one thing for a while.
Today out at village Creek MX ft worth TX. Although I don't mind paying 30 for organized practice I would like the facility to put the effort in.
1 no more porta potty bathroom. My wife and daughters are so much better than that. Come on how can we be taken serious when we don't even provide brick and mortar bathrooms at the local levels.
Before anyone says anything I have owned and operated my own MX facility. Yes I had porta potty. I had a women's only and two for men.
30 per rider should equal proper track maintenance, flaggers, and medic staff on site. Which village always provides.
What are some other suggestions y'all can think of.
Another thing it our attitudes it's either win or nothing, we should recognize that all participants are doing something they love, we love and treat each other with respect. At the professional level why do we only concentrate on the podium finishers. All of these guys including us lay it on the line each time we go out.
Interview 4th 5th and so on get their take on things.
Ok I will stop rambling

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1/1/2020 4:51 PM

More garbage cans would be nice.

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1/1/2020 4:53 PM

Podiums

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1/1/2020 4:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/2/2020 12:54 PM

I’ve noticed tracks back east usually have picnic tables in the parking lot which seem really nice. It would be great to have a place to set my goggles helmet and neck brace down after I come in from a moto, and having shade over would be even better. I noticed Glen Helen put in some picnic tables but they aren’t near the parking area. They also put in showers, more toilets and a huge stadium size urinal which is really nice

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2017 CRF450r

1/1/2020 4:56 PM

More filler/artificial traffic threads like this should solve all of MX’s problems.

TIA

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much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





1/1/2020 5:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 5:20 PM

It's a reasonable post and subject to have a conversation about. Unfortunately on any social media these days instead of trying to be part of a conversation people just look for a way to degrade things.
In my opinion it all comes down to money and with less and
less people joining the sport financially the sport is struggling.

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1/1/2020 5:26 PM

I do septic system installs. Take the price of a septic permit, pay a soil scientist for a soil analysis, pay to have a system installed ($10,000 minimum), then install a well if you don’t already have one, build the bathrooms, several thousand dollars more, at least. I’m pretty sure you can kiss that $30/day riding fee goodbye. I don’t have a problem with porta Johns, if they help keep the costs low for the local tracks.

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1/1/2020 5:35 PM

Not trying to fix our sport for I don't feel it is broke. Wanting to help grow and improve our sport, reach new people, new investors. It is the greatest sport out there.

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1/1/2020 5:35 PM

My father and I owned a track for 5 years and we had to shut it down because of the county and honestly it was a money pit. My father constantly tried everything but finally got tired of legal fees and just the cost of keep the track going is crazy. To think that a track can easily build a building for restrooms and also hire flaggers and medics is crazy on a 30 dollars for each rider. Honestly to even break even most weekends it would be close to 50 to 75 dollars a rider to have these things. With bike cost going up plus diesel and equipment also increases i really see the sport staying the same or even getting worse. I love this sport and so did my dad and if we broke even we would still have the track. Most tracks around us closed or just have open practice with no prep/no watering. So you have 50s and 450s on the track bc the track owners aren't even there just a drop box for the money. My dad absolutely wasnt doing that so someone was always there to at least separate practice. We had big plans to do all these things but the sport isnt big enough to fulfill the dreams. Yes we made some money at races but that money was what kept the track going in between races plus constantly coming out of the bank account . Lucky my dad has a business that does very well so we didnt go under like alot of ppl who try this. Just my 2cents in the matter

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1/1/2020 5:36 PM

downard254 wrote:

I do septic system installs. Take the price of a septic permit, pay a soil scientist for a soil analysis, pay to have a system installed ($10,000 minimum), then install a well if you don’t already have one, build the bathrooms, several thousand dollars more, at least. I’m pretty sure you can kiss that $30/day riding fee goodbye. I don’t have a problem with porta Johns, if they help keep the costs low for the local tracks.

Exactly. A modern well maintained port o pot is good enough for anyone associated with moto and that includes wife/kids. The biggest problem is guys that feel the need to hose the whole place down. They'd do the same in a nice pisser.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

1/1/2020 5:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 5:37 PM

I think the only tracks in the DFW metroplex that use porta poopers are Village creek and Oak hill. When Nocona reopened they spent a bunch of money and made nice bathrooms and put in seating for guests. No one went and it closed down again.

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1/1/2020 5:39 PM

downard254 wrote:

I do septic system installs. Take the price of a septic permit, pay a soil scientist for a soil analysis, pay to have a system installed ($10,000 minimum), then install a well if you don’t already have one, build the bathrooms, several thousand dollars more, at least. I’m pretty sure you can kiss that $30/day riding fee goodbye. I don’t have a problem with porta Johns, if they help keep the costs low for the local tracks.

Considering all the contractors who ride that would probably help or donate time, a 40k bathroom shouldn’t be a problem.

If they need to raise prices to do it, they’re doing it wrong.

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1/1/2020 5:44 PM

downard254 wrote:

I do septic system installs. Take the price of a septic permit, pay a soil scientist for a soil analysis, pay to have a system installed ($10,000 minimum), then install a well if you don’t already have one, build the bathrooms, several thousand dollars more, at least. I’m pretty sure you can kiss that $30/day riding fee goodbye. I don’t have a problem with porta Johns, if they help keep the costs low for the local tracks.

UpTiTe wrote:

Considering all the contractors who ride that would probably help or donate time, a 40k bathroom shouldn’t be a problem.

If they need to raise prices to do it, they’re doing it wrong.

Trust me no one is donating that much. We barely could get help with flaggers. I'm telling you 40k isnt happening for most tracks.

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1/1/2020 6:00 PM

I go to tracks because of the tracks.

I don’t know about you guys, but if a facility is supreme and the track is bogus I’m going riding elsewhere. I want good soil, fun obstacles, and line choices. Doesn’t bother me if the pits aren’t mowed, there’s no shade, bad shitters, poorly marked entrance... whatever. Spend every possible second on the thing that brings me there in the first place.

My number one gripe is promoters not cracking down on people riding the wrong practice. But that doesn’t prevent me from going riding at the awesome tracks.

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1/1/2020 6:19 PM

Your wife and kids are better than a porto potty? You sound like such a douche.

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1/1/2020 6:20 PM

I dunno.
Are more people really needed or necessary?
I mean, is that not a big part of the problem?
People riding on land not their own, tearing the woods up, pissing off just about all that aren't into it?
Ask yourself, why do I race?
Is it to impress others? Or the love of mixing it up.
Will more people get me more seat time, or more time waiting in line?
I think what we are missing, if u want more numbers,
is the rebel without a cause, #338, somewhat daredevil, or devil may care attitude.
Snowboarders have it. What are the bicycle guys that do the big tricks stuff called. BMXers? They have it. Surfers have it.
None of those guys seem to care about hot running water and flush toilets.

Why do we?

I say what the sport needs, if u want more people,
is a bit more of the Burning Man attitude.
Somehow, get it a little less politically correct, straight laced and proper, and a little more wild, and how can I put it, fun. In a rebellious kind of way.

Just my 2 cents.

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1/1/2020 6:23 PM

Field of dreams in south jersey has nice toilets, bike wash, and an amazing MX and SX track. They won’t water enough when it’s hot but they do a solid job and I’m happy they are open. It’s 45 to ride. Worth it to me, as I know what goes into it.

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1/1/2020 6:28 PM

kzizok wrote:

More filler/artificial traffic threads like this should solve all of MX’s problems.

TIA

TIA?



cool

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

1/1/2020 6:31 PM

Breezewood in PA is quite the place. Two tracks,and a bitchin' pit bike track. Great parking with shade and picnic tables. Legit showers and bathrooms. Legit swimming area. Multiple cabins you can rent for the week for up to 20 people. Grooms and waters the tracks, minimum, three times a day. He charges $50/day...but it is highly discounted for multiple days.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

1/1/2020 6:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 6:38 PM

GasGasOrAss wrote:

Your wife and kids are better than a porto potty? You sound like such a douche.

Hey, if you don't mind your girlfriend (assuming you have one) going into the portal John after 30 guys with nervous stomach go drop a load. Then you don't have much respect for her.
Like I said I was the owner of milamceeek MX park in Denton Texas, also ran Athens MX park in Athens TX. Septic tank is 3500. Cinder block rr 8500. 12k investment. Also not singling out one thing wanting to help the sport grow new ideas and the fact that I'm getting this kind of response is exactly why it is going to fade into the sunset.
Just some words from the newly crowned Douche

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1/1/2020 6:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/1/2020 7:14 PM

BobPA wrote:

Breezewood in PA is quite the place. Two tracks,and a bitchin' pit bike track. Great parking with shade and picnic tables. Legit showers and bathrooms. Legit swimming area. Multiple cabins you can rent for the week for up to 20 people. Grooms and waters the tracks, minimum, three times a day. He charges $50/day...but it is highly discounted for multiple days.

And car wash style bays for cleaning your bike. Dan pays out really good too on race days and anyone can race because they arent AMA sanctioned.

Breezewood is fun with the only downside being youll have to share the track with quads. I miss having Mondays off and riding there. I had the whole place, track and pond, to myself. It was like my own personal facility for only $40 at the time.

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1/1/2020 6:47 PM

It's really not financially feasible without government support I think. Sports that are played on public sports fields im sure get some local government support to maintain the field and manage the facilities? Either that or a number of sports are played on the field and as such the cost is spread around?

Its seems in Australia the local cricket/AFL fields are managed by the local councils, which means parking, playing and bathroom facilities are mostly covered.

I lived as the caretaker of the motocross track in Alice Springs in the middle of Australia and any piece of building or infrastructure came from government grants, either local or state sports, infrastructure, or community development grants. Without this it wouldn't have been possible for the club to have descent and accessible facilities. Is this how it works in other states in Aus?

Are community development or sports grants something thats available in America?

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1/1/2020 7:06 PM

Zacka 161 wrote:

It's really not financially feasible without government support I think. Sports that are played on public sports fields im sure get some local government support to maintain the field and manage the facilities? Either that or a number of sports are played on the field and as such the cost is spread around?

Its seems in Australia the local cricket/AFL fields are managed by the local councils, which means parking, playing and bathroom facilities are mostly covered.

I lived as the caretaker of the motocross track in Alice Springs in the middle of Australia and any piece of building or infrastructure came from government grants, either local or state sports, infrastructure, or community development grants. Without this it wouldn't have been possible for the club to have descent and accessible facilities. Is this how it works in other states in Aus?

Are community development or sports grants something thats available in America?

There was a guy that really tried that route a few years back, here in the Baltimore area.
Politicians and track requirements needed by them and their engineers made it not feasible.

Felt sorry for the guy, he put a lot of time and effort into it.
His motivation was the shutting down of legal riding areas in the Western part of the state. This was done so Maryland could classify the forests out there as virgin or whatever, which increased their value and raised the bond rating the State now gets
for it. So they, the State, can borrow more money.

Sure, Annapolis, the state Capitol and their zoning/grant money paid him lip service for a few years, but they just killed him with rules, regulations
and applications till he just gave it up.

Shame really, he had plans for half a dozen tracks,
that would have been kinda State run, but they really did not want it. Not like they did the forests and bond ratings, that's for sure.
So they killed it, in a nice kind of way.

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1/1/2020 7:08 PM

GasGasOrAss wrote:

Your wife and kids are better than a porto potty? You sound like such a douche.

milamcreek wrote:

Hey, if you don't mind your girlfriend (assuming you have one) going into the portal John after 30 guys with nervous stomach go drop a load. Then you don't have much respect for her.
Like I said I was the owner of milamceeek MX park in Denton Texas, also ran Athens MX park in Athens TX. Septic tank is 3500. Cinder block rr 8500. 12k investment. Also not singling out one thing wanting to help the sport grow new ideas and the fact that I'm getting this kind of response is exactly why it is going to fade into the sunset.
Just some words from the newly crowned Douche

When was there a track in Denton? I moved here just five years ago.

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1/1/2020 7:16 PM

This sport will never grow any bigger than it is today. We have had our chances to make big changes and you only get a couple of opportunities to gain good perspective and we have over and over shot ourselves in the foot by showing the viewers and new comers our true colors.

This sport will always be a stone age sport.

Roczen of all dudes ive been around is one of the very few class acts out there and for awhile there a few years back I thought he would single handedly change this sport. He has done a lot!!

With guys like Dungey and Dean Wilson who go around and bring awareness not to just grow our sport but to make change in community is what this sport needs. Both of these guys do it with selflessness and from different perspectives.

We need guys in this sport with a big platform to step up like the guys mentioned who bring in outsiders. This is what will bring awareness to our sport and attract the viewer to want to tune in.

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1/1/2020 7:22 PM

GasGasOrAss wrote:

Your wife and kids are better than a porto potty? You sound like such a douche.

milamcreek wrote:

Hey, if you don't mind your girlfriend (assuming you have one) going into the portal John after 30 guys with nervous stomach go drop a load. Then you don't have much respect for her.
Like I said I was the owner of milamceeek MX park in Denton Texas, also ran Athens MX park in Athens TX. Septic tank is 3500. Cinder block rr 8500. 12k investment. Also not singling out one thing wanting to help the sport grow new ideas and the fact that I'm getting this kind of response is exactly why it is going to fade into the sunset.
Just some words from the newly crowned Douche

Grenader26 wrote:

When was there a track in Denton? I moved here just five years ago.

North on 35 milam Creek exit behind the drag strip
Shut down in 08

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1/1/2020 7:29 PM

milamcreek wrote:

Ok so I have been thinking about ways to help our sport. First I would attack the low hanging fruit. I've been thinking about this one thing for a while.
Today out at village Creek MX ft worth TX. Although I don't mind paying 30 for organized practice I would like the facility to put the effort in.
1 no more porta potty bathroom. My wife and daughters are so much better than that. Come on how can we be taken serious when we don't even provide brick and mortar bathrooms at the local levels.
Before anyone says anything I have owned and operated my own MX facility. Yes I had porta potty. I had a women's only and two for men.
30 per rider should equal proper track maintenance, flaggers, and medic staff on site. Which village always provides.
What are some other suggestions y'all can think of.
Another thing it our attitudes it's either win or nothing, we should recognize that all participants are doing something they love, we love and treat each other with respect. At the professional level why do we only concentrate on the podium finishers. All of these guys including us lay it on the line each time we go out.
Interview 4th 5th and so on get their take on things.
Ok I will stop rambling

So you think that this track should somehow be made to provide better facilities than you did when you were in their position? If owning a track were so incredibly lucrative, wouldn't you still be in their position?

The part of your post that mimics the "same trophies for everyone" dogma isn't even worth engaging about......

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1/1/2020 7:31 PM

Getting rid of RC and Ralph as announcers would be a good start. They make our sport look and sound very bad for any potential new people/sponsors looking to get involved.

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1/1/2020 8:00 PM

Grenader26 wrote:

I think the only tracks in the DFW metroplex that use porta poopers are Village creek and Oak hill. When Nocona reopened they spent a bunch of money and made nice bathrooms and put in seating for guests. No one went and it closed down again.

Nacona is about 50 miles from the middle of nowhere. And that's after you drive a hour and half to get that close. The track and the dirt were top notch. But will never survive being that far away from everything.

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1/1/2020 8:25 PM

Ok in 2009 the price to ride around here was 15 per rider.
Listen all, what I'm saying is that we are in the 21st century the simple things like indoor plumbing is a good thing. Not the only thing mentioned.
Point of the 15 per rider is now it's doubled and I own a battery distribution business that for 28 years I have put money back into and is very successful.
Point is there is opportunities for track owners including myself to put money back in to their facilities. However this topic was started so that we could think together not point fingers at one another.
Have we moved past the ability to just have a open discussion about improvements. Damn, and if you know me you know how much I support MX

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