Bowers on last nights DQ

chump6784
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chump6784 2/18/2019 11:30am
2/18/2019 11:30am
To me it's kind of like when you go to court for drink driving. If it's your first time there you might get the minimum penalty the judge can give, if you've been there a number of times the judge is going to throw the book at you. Bowers has been there a few times and got the book thrown at him
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BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 2/18/2019 11:33am
2/18/2019 11:33am
I don't think they would've DQed him if he hadn't crashed. His crash after the contact makes it look way more intentional, like his main intention was smashing into Barcia. Plus then he's blocking the track trying to pick up his bike. I think the AMA is mainly cool with hard racing, but torpedo-ing a guy, crashing, then blocking the track with your bike on the ground is a little over the top.

If Barcia's bike had stayed on the track too, that could lead to the pack behind them getting bunched up and someone getting landed on. The contact wasn't super dirty, it's just that it could've caused a bigger mess.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 2/18/2019 11:35am
2/18/2019 11:35am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 11:41am
BR8ES wrote:
how is there a lack of consistency when they are two completely different examples? You pointed out nothing but a bad example. You compared the two...
how is there a lack of consistency when they are two completely different examples? You pointed out nothing but a bad example. You compared the two by using the example you gave...spin it another way if you like. edit- I would have called it the same if it was anybody else, try harder. Cannot compare a racing move to a blatant takeout no matter the offender.
This is my last post on this, I feel like I'm repeating it over and over and you're not understanding.

You are saying it's okay for a rider to retaliate a take out from one side of your mouth and that it's not okay for a rider to retaliate out the other side, depending on which rider you like. I can't paint it any clearer than that. I'm not comparing the two incidents and I never was, I'm comparing your wishy-washy opinion on retaliation. Is it okay for a rider to retaliate or not? Answer that.
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Harry Backmon 2/18/2019 11:35am
2/18/2019 11:35am
I read his whole statement. I think it was fair, and I found it surprisingly well-written. As I've stated before, I'm a fan of all the riders staying healthy.
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drt410
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drt410 2/18/2019 11:39am
2/18/2019 11:39am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 12:50pm
aeffertz wrote:
You’re missing the point completely. Did you even read his post?
Sachmo831 wrote:
The point is he made no attempt to turn. The ama can't stand by and watch blatant takouts. Most riders will atleast turn the bars and...
The point is he made no attempt to turn. The ama can't stand by and watch blatant takouts. Most riders will atleast turn the bars and give the illusion of it being "aggressive racing"
danman wrote:
This is why the DQ was merited. Bowers NEVER ATTEMPTED TO STOP or MAKE THE CORNER! He straight up T-Boned him and that was his intention...
This is why the DQ was merited.
Bowers NEVER ATTEMPTED TO STOP or MAKE THE CORNER! He straight up T-Boned him and that was his intention. Bowers head never stopped looking at the side of Barcia's bike. If he was really trying to make the corner, his head would have been looking where he wanted to go. End of Story.

DQ was EARNED.
Again....

Bowers AGREES that it was earned.
People STILL arent reading what he said.
He said the consistency is the problem. He agrees that it was earned, but that other riders ALSO EARNED IT but are not DQ’d. THATS HIS POINT... That Hampshire retaliated against AC... nothing, Bam Bam broke Bowers leg... nothing, Marv demolished Tomac... nothing. Am I going to have to type this again? Someone please at least read what I just wrote if your not going to read what Bowers wrote before you post....
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BR8ES
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BR8ES 2/18/2019 11:40am
2/18/2019 11:40am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 11:41am
BR8ES wrote:
how is there a lack of consistency when they are two completely different examples? You pointed out nothing but a bad example. You compared the two...
how is there a lack of consistency when they are two completely different examples? You pointed out nothing but a bad example. You compared the two by using the example you gave...spin it another way if you like. edit- I would have called it the same if it was anybody else, try harder. Cannot compare a racing move to a blatant takeout no matter the offender.
aeffertz wrote:
This is my last post on this, I feel like I'm repeating it over and over and you're not understanding. You are saying it's okay for...
This is my last post on this, I feel like I'm repeating it over and over and you're not understanding.

You are saying it's okay for a rider to retaliate a take out from one side of your mouth and that it's not okay for a rider to retaliate out the other side, depending on which rider you like. I can't paint it any clearer than that. I'm not comparing the two incidents and I never was, I'm comparing your wishy-washy opinion on retaliation. Is it okay for a rider to retaliate or not? Answer that.
last post by you is fine because you are not making any sense and want a concession out of me for a apples to oranges comaprsion. Weird... give me something suitable to contemplate and then we can go on, otherwise bye.
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bents
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bents 2/18/2019 11:43am
2/18/2019 11:43am
BobKerr wrote:
Thanks Bob! Everyone celebrates this move, and I'm cool with it, so.....but prime example of inconsistency of penalties handed out over the years.
BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 2/18/2019 11:46am
2/18/2019 11:46am
Hard to argue with the AMA being inconsistent in this case, because it's NOT like other incidents. How often does the guy making the pass end up on the ground?
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drt410
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drt410 2/18/2019 11:47am
2/18/2019 11:47am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 11:49am
Yet another example of no black flag this time for Reed dickin around in 16th purposely screwing Dungey in 2nd who was trying to catch Tomac. The pettiness of Reed can be funny sometimes, but this is another example of the name holds weight. If AJ Catanzarro was doing this to Dungey in dead last place he would have been DQ’d faster than you can say “I cant believe its not butter”.
Note: Webb in 15th, Tomac in 1st. My what a couple years, a new bike, and a new trainer can do...

https://youtu.be/0WGWkazzmbs
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BR8ES
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BR8ES 2/18/2019 11:47am
2/18/2019 11:47am
Sachmo831 wrote:
The point is he made no attempt to turn. The ama can't stand by and watch blatant takouts. Most riders will atleast turn the bars and...
The point is he made no attempt to turn. The ama can't stand by and watch blatant takouts. Most riders will atleast turn the bars and give the illusion of it being "aggressive racing"
danman wrote:
This is why the DQ was merited. Bowers NEVER ATTEMPTED TO STOP or MAKE THE CORNER! He straight up T-Boned him and that was his intention...
This is why the DQ was merited.
Bowers NEVER ATTEMPTED TO STOP or MAKE THE CORNER! He straight up T-Boned him and that was his intention. Bowers head never stopped looking at the side of Barcia's bike. If he was really trying to make the corner, his head would have been looking where he wanted to go. End of Story.

DQ was EARNED.
drt410 wrote:
Again.... Bowers AGREES that it was earned. People STILL arent reading what he said. He said the consistency is the problem. He agrees that it was...
Again....

Bowers AGREES that it was earned.
People STILL arent reading what he said.
He said the consistency is the problem. He agrees that it was earned, but that other riders ALSO EARNED IT but are not DQ’d. THATS HIS POINT... That Hampshire retaliated against AC... nothing, Bam Bam broke Bowers leg... nothing, Marv demolished Tomac... nothing. Am I going to have to type this again? Someone please at least read what I just wrote if your not going to read what Bowers wrote before you post....
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to be. Can you imagine if one of the big names was DQ'd for this? Big names always get the speial treatment, sadly. Bowers is correct on the consistency aspects, I will give him that. Big difference bewtween a good blockpass, going for it versus a T-bone punting.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 2/18/2019 11:49am
2/18/2019 11:49am
BobKerr wrote:
bents wrote:
Thanks Bob! Everyone celebrates this move, and I'm cool with it, so.....but prime example of inconsistency of penalties handed out over the years.
it was a shit move by KW, plain and simple. I like KW too.
drt410
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drt410 2/18/2019 11:54am
2/18/2019 11:54am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 12:00pm
danman wrote:
This is why the DQ was merited. Bowers NEVER ATTEMPTED TO STOP or MAKE THE CORNER! He straight up T-Boned him and that was his intention...
This is why the DQ was merited.
Bowers NEVER ATTEMPTED TO STOP or MAKE THE CORNER! He straight up T-Boned him and that was his intention. Bowers head never stopped looking at the side of Barcia's bike. If he was really trying to make the corner, his head would have been looking where he wanted to go. End of Story.

DQ was EARNED.
drt410 wrote:
Again.... Bowers AGREES that it was earned. People STILL arent reading what he said. He said the consistency is the problem. He agrees that it was...
Again....

Bowers AGREES that it was earned.
People STILL arent reading what he said.
He said the consistency is the problem. He agrees that it was earned, but that other riders ALSO EARNED IT but are not DQ’d. THATS HIS POINT... That Hampshire retaliated against AC... nothing, Bam Bam broke Bowers leg... nothing, Marv demolished Tomac... nothing. Am I going to have to type this again? Someone please at least read what I just wrote if your not going to read what Bowers wrote before you post....
BR8ES wrote:
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to...
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to be. Can you imagine if one of the big names was DQ'd for this? Big names always get the speial treatment, sadly. Bowers is correct on the consistency aspects, I will give him that. Big difference bewtween a good blockpass, going for it versus a T-bone punting.
Exactly. Marvs pass on Tomac was just as bad. Barcias slam into Bowers was the worst of them all it jacked up his bike n shattered his leg. Looks can be deceiving. Barcias pass didnt “look” as bad as it was, but it was the worst one, it was season ending. The looks were all there though for Marvin-Tomac, and also for Osborne who was 100% doing it on purpose and to win. Im glad he did though its one of the most epic moments ever in our sport, but if your not going to DQ Marv, dont DQ Bowers. Or if you are going to DQ Bowers, then DQ Marv too. Whichever path they choose, stay on that path. Consistency across all names, not just big names is what makes it fair for those involved.
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scrubbin627 2/18/2019 12:02pm
2/18/2019 12:02pm
I agree with Bowers. Consistency definitely should be practiced if they are going to DQ riders for take outs.
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agn5009
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agn5009 2/18/2019 12:09pm
2/18/2019 12:09pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I read his whole statement. I think it was fair, and I found it surprisingly well-written. As I've stated before, I'm a fan of all the...
I read his whole statement. I think it was fair, and I found it surprisingly well-written. As I've stated before, I'm a fan of all the riders staying healthy.
Bowers is a very smart guy. I believe he has an engineering degree.
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Harry Backmon 2/18/2019 12:43pm
2/18/2019 12:43pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I read his whole statement. I think it was fair, and I found it surprisingly well-written. As I've stated before, I'm a fan of all the...
I read his whole statement. I think it was fair, and I found it surprisingly well-written. As I've stated before, I'm a fan of all the riders staying healthy.
agn5009 wrote:
Bowers is a very smart guy. I believe he has an engineering degree.
Nice.

Also, I don't think Bowers should have torpedoed Barcia, but he is correct about the disparity in penalties between the triple digits and the big names.
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Mr. Knobby 2/18/2019 12:52pm
2/18/2019 12:52pm
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That tells you there is a problem. Bowers is a bit of a meat head on the track, but so is Barcia - and has been all his career. Just because he's decided to try and get serious these last couple of seasons, doesn't erase the past. Osbourne used to pass everyone this way in his 250 days.

I personally dislike both of them (Bowers and Barcia), so I couldn't care less, but the point about consistency in how penalties are handed out is spot on. It's a complete joke. A lottery.
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drt410
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drt410 2/18/2019 12:55pm
2/18/2019 12:55pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 1:05pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Hard to argue with the AMA being inconsistent in this case, because it's NOT like other incidents. How often does the guy making the pass end...
Hard to argue with the AMA being inconsistent in this case, because it's NOT like other incidents. How often does the guy making the pass end up on the ground?
Marv slaying Tomac.. no punishment. AC 3 weeks ago retaliation by Hampshire, no punishment. Kenny DEMOLISHING Webb as retaliation for the block pass the turn before (+ Baby mama drama lol), no punishment. Zacho str8 MURKED Savatgy on purpose.. planned, setup, and executed, to win the championship. It was an EPIC moment in sx history, but only a fine. If Bowers had taken out Eli like that hed be banned 4 life, yet Marv did... His whole point is if its ok for some to do it then let everyone do it.

Anderson I agree wasnt bad taking Kenny out, but he went down... Alex Martin last week took out Davalos.. not that bad but he went down too. AMart got taken out this week, went down. People go down a lot from block passes. These ones werent bad, but the really bad ones by big name guys dont get punished.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 2/18/2019 1:01pm
2/18/2019 1:01pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That...
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That tells you there is a problem. Bowers is a bit of a meat head on the track, but so is Barcia - and has been all his career. Just because he's decided to try and get serious these last couple of seasons, doesn't erase the past. Osbourne used to pass everyone this way in his 250 days.

I personally dislike both of them (Bowers and Barcia), so I couldn't care less, but the point about consistency in how penalties are handed out is spot on. It's a complete joke. A lottery.
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying out some retaliatory vendetta on the track that the officials can't allow to get out of hand. Oldenberg/Martin, Marvin/Tomac, Alessi/Tickle, etc., those were just arguably way over-aggressive moves with the intention of improving track position.
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DonM
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DonM 2/18/2019 1:28pm
2/18/2019 1:28pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That...
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That tells you there is a problem. Bowers is a bit of a meat head on the track, but so is Barcia - and has been all his career. Just because he's decided to try and get serious these last couple of seasons, doesn't erase the past. Osbourne used to pass everyone this way in his 250 days.

I personally dislike both of them (Bowers and Barcia), so I couldn't care less, but the point about consistency in how penalties are handed out is spot on. It's a complete joke. A lottery.
GrapeApe wrote:
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying...
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying out some retaliatory vendetta on the track that the officials can't allow to get out of hand. Oldenberg/Martin, Marvin/Tomac, Alessi/Tickle, etc., those were just arguably way over-aggressive moves with the intention of improving track position.
Common denominator is Gallagher...He can't separate his emotions from his position as an official....shit I just realized I married her....Blink
motomike137
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motomike137 2/18/2019 2:01pm
2/18/2019 2:01pm
BR8ES wrote:
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to...
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to be. Can you imagine if one of the big names was DQ'd for this? Big names always get the speial treatment, sadly. Bowers is correct on the consistency aspects, I will give him that. Big difference bewtween a good blockpass, going for it versus a T-bone punting.
I can't imagine one of the "big names" lining up someones leg with their front tire like Bowers did and that includes Bam Bam. Blatant attempt to injure Barcia is what I saw.
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BR8ES
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BR8ES 2/18/2019 2:05pm
2/18/2019 2:05pm
BR8ES wrote:
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to...
should be pretty easy to punish the obvious, blatant moves where your bike is used as a weapon, but it is not for the powers to be. Can you imagine if one of the big names was DQ'd for this? Big names always get the speial treatment, sadly. Bowers is correct on the consistency aspects, I will give him that. Big difference bewtween a good blockpass, going for it versus a T-bone punting.
motomike137 wrote:
I can't imagine one of the "big names" lining up someones leg with their front tire like Bowers did and that includes Bam Bam. Blatant attempt...
I can't imagine one of the "big names" lining up someones leg with their front tire like Bowers did and that includes Bam Bam. Blatant attempt to injure Barcia is what I saw.
There has been some pretty blatant take outs and injuries by riders quite high on the food chain.
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B Gotti
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B Gotti 2/18/2019 2:08pm
2/18/2019 2:08pm
I'm going to find Barcia this weekend & step on his big toe then kick him in the shin. Lets see how he likes that.
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vetmxr
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vetmxr 2/18/2019 2:13pm
2/18/2019 2:13pm
You guys talk like Barcia is an angel. I would think if Barcia slammed me as hard as he has done to guys in the past I'm not only never forgetting about it.....but could guarantee that someday soon I'd hit him twice as hard. That goes with anyone including myself. I've hit guys before and I usually cringe under my helmet knowing that is probably not the last I'm gonna see of that guy...... And I have no problem with Barcia personally.

What goes around, comes around. That's what keeps Society Civil....Laughing
45ACP
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45ACP 2/18/2019 2:16pm
2/18/2019 2:16pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That...
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That tells you there is a problem. Bowers is a bit of a meat head on the track, but so is Barcia - and has been all his career. Just because he's decided to try and get serious these last couple of seasons, doesn't erase the past. Osbourne used to pass everyone this way in his 250 days.

I personally dislike both of them (Bowers and Barcia), so I couldn't care less, but the point about consistency in how penalties are handed out is spot on. It's a complete joke. A lottery.
GrapeApe wrote:
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying...
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying out some retaliatory vendetta on the track that the officials can't allow to get out of hand. Oldenberg/Martin, Marvin/Tomac, Alessi/Tickle, etc., those were just arguably way over-aggressive moves with the intention of improving track position.
Alessi was trying to improve track position on Tickle? That's laughable.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 2/18/2019 2:40pm
2/18/2019 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 2:41pm
anywhere from behind the front wheel/fork is obvious intent to take a rider out with malice, no matter who the offender is. Pretty simple to enforce if the ref has the power to do so or plainly written so all can understand. Yes/No?
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captmoto
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captmoto 2/18/2019 2:47pm
2/18/2019 2:47pm
drt410 wrote:
Exactly. Marvs pass on Tomac was just as bad. Barcias slam into Bowers was the worst of them all it jacked up his bike n shattered...
Exactly. Marvs pass on Tomac was just as bad. Barcias slam into Bowers was the worst of them all it jacked up his bike n shattered his leg. Looks can be deceiving. Barcias pass didnt “look” as bad as it was, but it was the worst one, it was season ending. The looks were all there though for Marvin-Tomac, and also for Osborne who was 100% doing it on purpose and to win. Im glad he did though its one of the most epic moments ever in our sport, but if your not going to DQ Marv, dont DQ Bowers. Or if you are going to DQ Bowers, then DQ Marv too. Whichever path they choose, stay on that path. Consistency across all names, not just big names is what makes it fair for those involved.
But those moves were all passes. Maybe stupid and over aggressive but still passes. Bowers pretty much admitted in his statements that it was payback. That was a pure torpedo move. Does he think that move will change Gallaghers mind or get him to see things like Bowers sees it? I really doubt it now.
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Goon126
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Goon126 2/18/2019 2:51pm
2/18/2019 2:51pm
chump6784 wrote:
To me it's kind of like when you go to court for drink driving. If it's your first time there you might get the minimum penalty...
To me it's kind of like when you go to court for drink driving. If it's your first time there you might get the minimum penalty the judge can give, if you've been there a number of times the judge is going to throw the book at you. Bowers has been there a few times and got the book thrown at him
What about all the times Barcia has taken out people?????

Just curious to those that have been on Vital for over 7 years. Were people defending Barcia back in 2012 for roosting Asterisk medical personnel as much as they are right now?
Richard Tease II 2/18/2019 2:59pm
2/18/2019 2:59pm
He was DQ'd for taking himself down in a blatant takeout.
Rule 1 of takeouts is dont take yourself out
Rule 2 if you fail at rule 1 refer rule 3
Rule 3 your an idiot -DQ
drt410
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drt410 2/18/2019 3:01pm
2/18/2019 3:01pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That...
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That tells you there is a problem. Bowers is a bit of a meat head on the track, but so is Barcia - and has been all his career. Just because he's decided to try and get serious these last couple of seasons, doesn't erase the past. Osbourne used to pass everyone this way in his 250 days.

I personally dislike both of them (Bowers and Barcia), so I couldn't care less, but the point about consistency in how penalties are handed out is spot on. It's a complete joke. A lottery.
GrapeApe wrote:
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying...
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying out some retaliatory vendetta on the track that the officials can't allow to get out of hand. Oldenberg/Martin, Marvin/Tomac, Alessi/Tickle, etc., those were just arguably way over-aggressive moves with the intention of improving track position.
Kenny was retaliation with Webb from the block pass before (and baby mama drama lol). Hampshires move on AC was retaliation too, just a couple weeks ago...
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 2/18/2019 3:04pm
2/18/2019 3:04pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That...
If it was not Bowers and it was a top guy but exactly the same collision, the top guy DOES NOT get DQ'd. For Sure. That tells you there is a problem. Bowers is a bit of a meat head on the track, but so is Barcia - and has been all his career. Just because he's decided to try and get serious these last couple of seasons, doesn't erase the past. Osbourne used to pass everyone this way in his 250 days.

I personally dislike both of them (Bowers and Barcia), so I couldn't care less, but the point about consistency in how penalties are handed out is spot on. It's a complete joke. A lottery.
GrapeApe wrote:
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying...
How do you explain Reed being DQ'q? He was a pretty big name at the time. The common denominator - Reed and Bowers were both carrying out some retaliatory vendetta on the track that the officials can't allow to get out of hand. Oldenberg/Martin, Marvin/Tomac, Alessi/Tickle, etc., those were just arguably way over-aggressive moves with the intention of improving track position.
drt410 wrote:
Kenny was retaliation with Webb from the block pass before (and baby mama drama lol). Hampshires move on AC was retaliation too, just a couple weeks...
Kenny was retaliation with Webb from the block pass before (and baby mama drama lol). Hampshires move on AC was retaliation too, just a couple weeks ago...
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