Bike brands in night program & mains...mean anything?

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1/13/2013 11:22 AM

My dad likes to say, "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday." Popular saying in our sport. Does it really apply though?

So, sometimes I like counting the number of bikes from each brand in the main. I'm a Kawasaki guy, so last year I liked counting the 450 Kawis making the main and in qualifying. It made me feel good as a Kawasaki brand loyalist to see around 10 out of 20 in the main. But does it really mean anything? Does it say something about R&D for that bike for that year? Can and/or do consumers really make decisions based on the racing? Just some thoughts, here are the numbers. And if so, Honda is in for a big year of selling. Most bikes in both mains and in the night program. Also won both mains, had 1 heat win from both classes and an LCQ win. By all means, this is not a Honda love thread, but wow. Big night for Honda in Phoenix. Not so much for KTM, especially with Dungey's issues and not many bikes in the night program.

450 Main:
Honda - 7
Suzuki - 5
Yamaha - 3
Kawasaki - 3
KTM - 2

250 Main:
Honda - 13
Kawasaki - 2
Suzuki - 2
KTM - 2
Yamaha - 1

450 Qualifiers (top40):
Honda - 12
Yamaha - 9
Suzuki - 8
Kawasaki - 8
KTM - 3

250 Qualifiers (top40):
Honda - 21
Kawasaki - 11
Suzuki - 3
Yamaha - 3
KTM - 2

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BRD = bench racing digits; I liked the old number system!

1/13/2013 12:17 PM

Quite interesting....I would like to see a overall results about half way through the season....with riders at this level they could 'probably' hop any any bike, set it up and do just as well.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

1/13/2013 12:22 PM

It means absolutely nothing.

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1/13/2013 12:23 PM

Maybe a long time ago.

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1/13/2013 12:33 PM

No

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1/13/2013 2:20 PM

Honda's have the highest quality and the cheapest parts. They don't have to win races to sell bikes.

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1/13/2013 3:34 PM

mtb sales are the new "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday"

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1/13/2013 4:05 PM

Your data is all wrong! How many KTM bikes in the 250? Roczen, Stewart, Savagy (or something), Catchia, maybe more?
So that's a least 4 KTM bikes and you're saying they are only 2?

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"Ryan Dungey will always wonder how he can be a better son, brother, partner and racer. Because if you are satisfied, you will never be able to dream" ~ Troy Adamitis

1/13/2013 4:24 PM

In timed practice it kept showing #32 M. Stewart on a Honda, not sure who was at fault for that.
Numerous years ago many pros were riding Suzuki when they had a large pro contingency program.

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1/13/2013 5:52 PM

I don't think it matters till the guys are buying bikes with their own money, then I pay attention to what they buy. Like Reed the first year he was on his own. Or for example Milsaps and Alessi's teams have to buy their own bikes. Or Albertson buying a Honda this year.

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1/13/2013 5:56 PM

It means KTMs suck, followed closely by Yamaha ?

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1/13/2013 7:10 PM

Brad460 wrote:

It means KTMs suck, followed closely by Yamaha ?

Yes lol

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

1/13/2013 7:37 PM

ummm, you might want to check your numbers for the 250 main.

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1/13/2013 10:18 PM

The AMA results page has some issues (carries over to the broadcast if you've noticed) that I didn't notice when I put the numbers together. I just counted down through the brands and didn't look at the names. Should've known with the KTMs. For example, both Stewart and Savatgy are listed on Honda's. Also, Paluzzi is listed on a Honda even though he's on a YZ. Even so, based on the conversation here it seems like the consensus is it doesn't really matter. Maybe there is some conspiracy with the wrong bikes being listed... not.

But it really means nothing? Say the numbers were even more extreme than what I posted incorrectly. Say it was 2 of every brand except for one - Honda or whoever had the REST. That really doesn't say anything? I'm obviously off base with the R&D comment. All of the bikes are good, especially with all the aftermarket parts after the teams are done with them. Could the numbers mean something else then? Idk, just an observation I've seen over the years of following SX.

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BRD = bench racing digits; I liked the old number system!

1/14/2013 8:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/14/2013 8:30 AM

The numbers mean everything or nothing it depends on perspective.

keep posting them.

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1/14/2013 9:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/14/2013 9:20 AM

I worked for an OEM that has a very robust reporting program and I actually looked at those very numbers. You can take the number of each brand of motorcycles sold in every category and slice and dice based on all sorts of other criteria. They did not necessarily have the "who won on Saturday night" or "who won the National on Sunday" button, but you could practically see how many left-handed individuals bought an orange, blue, red, green or purple ATV at 3PM on Monday in Sierra Vista, AZ. I could transpose the win info myself. Here's what I found:

-Wins do not translate into instantaneous results in Motorcycle or ATV sales
-Supercross or National visits to any venue definitely impact sales in that territory (positively) for all brands. There is some bleed-over into other categories (ATV, Sport Bike, most notably.)
-Consistent wins or championships by one brand can move the needle slightly in that direction. JS7 winning the title in '09 definitely helped the 2010 YZ450 get off to a good start.

The OEMs still race with factory race teams, so their marketing guys definitely see a value in spending the money. They all know that when Justin Barcia wins on Saturday night, it may not result in more CRF450Rs being sold (maybe one or two, but not enough to pay for his salary and win bonus.) However, they also know that Honda will reap the benefits of better brand recognition and morale, which leads to the sales of more CRF150Fs, Big Reds, CBR600F4s and even generators. If they dig deep enough into the data, odds are good they'll find Barcia's win got them an extra Civic or Ridgeline, too. The hope is that their win will not just get them a bunch of motorcycle sales the next day, but convert new or existing customers for life. That kind of return is worth investing in.
To relate to the OP, there is definitely a benefit to having more of one brand in the main, if only for more chances for consumers to see the logo.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

1/14/2013 9:54 AM

The reason you see a lot of Hondas at this level is because their bikes are the easiest to make competitive and keep competitive through the season. This is especially true in the 250f class. The Hondas don’t win magazine shoot-outs but once you set them up properly, they can win races at a lower cost than the others.


It’s not like Honda is the leader in supporting racing outside their teams. Usually the worst contingency and hardest to get support from.

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1/14/2013 10:29 AM

Wasn't that long ago Kawi owned the lower class (lites 125s whatever you want to call it) primarily because of their contingency payments.

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1/14/2013 11:14 AM

Thanks for the input Falcon. I guess I came to the boards to see if I could bring out any insider information. As a public relations student, I thought there had to be some connection with why OEMs still support race teams (even if some are cutting back on support). Interesting thoughts on brand recognition and morale leading to sales in other product lines. That would make sense. It seemed like quite a few teams were switching over to Yamaha this year. Not to say Stewart's 09 season was a major factor, but may have pushed things in the right direction for the future.

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BRD = bench racing digits; I liked the old number system!

1/14/2013 11:36 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/14/2013 11:37 AM

gyd58 wrote:

The reason you see a lot of Hondas at this level is because their bikes are the easiest to make competitive and keep ...more

this !!!!!!! All my friends ride Hondas for this VERY reason (well ok, reasons).

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L