Big Bore 350??

rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
Hi Guy's
long time Aussie lurker but first post.
I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450 & it is a great bike but it wears me out quickly. I manage to ride MX once a week with friends some A & B grade level. I'm probably upper C grade level and while it is competitive between us none of us race. I had been considering what to do next and the idea of running a 350 with a big bore might be the compromise I may be looking for between manageable power and not wearing me out after a few laps. I am a little undecided due to previously having an 18 KTM350 standard bore and could not come to terms in riding style keeping it in the upper rpms every where. I have read that the big bore shifts the power down to more mid range and adds to the bottom end where for me I felt it needs it.
Can any of you chaps that run one give me some feedback??
Are you happy with it & would you run one again??
What displacement are people running??
I thought I read that Derek Harris on this forum did big bores??
I have a line on a very low hour 22 350 that already has the spring fork conversion done & an Akro system so really its just a matter of dropping the big bore in but I haven't got long to make a decision
Any input would be very much appreciated guy's
Thanks Rob
2
|
moto314
Posts
892
Joined
10/20/2009
Location
Mooresville, NC US
3/23/2022 4:13pm
If money was not an issue and you like the Honda, I would take a 2018-22 CRF250R and bore and stroke to 305cc (83mm bore, 56.4mm stroke).
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/23/2022 4:36pm
moto314 wrote:
If money was not an issue and you like the Honda, I would take a 2018-22 CRF250R and bore and stroke to 305cc (83mm bore, 56.4mm...
If money was not an issue and you like the Honda, I would take a 2018-22 CRF250R and bore and stroke to 305cc (83mm bore, 56.4mm stroke).
Money is an issue so going to that extent is not something I would consider going down at this point.
but thanks for the response
1
1
3/23/2022 4:41pm
rob2489 wrote:
Hi Guy's long time Aussie lurker but first post. I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450...
Hi Guy's
long time Aussie lurker but first post.
I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450 & it is a great bike but it wears me out quickly. I manage to ride MX once a week with friends some A & B grade level. I'm probably upper C grade level and while it is competitive between us none of us race. I had been considering what to do next and the idea of running a 350 with a big bore might be the compromise I may be looking for between manageable power and not wearing me out after a few laps. I am a little undecided due to previously having an 18 KTM350 standard bore and could not come to terms in riding style keeping it in the upper rpms every where. I have read that the big bore shifts the power down to more mid range and adds to the bottom end where for me I felt it needs it.
Can any of you chaps that run one give me some feedback??
Are you happy with it & would you run one again??
What displacement are people running??
I thought I read that Derek Harris on this forum did big bores??
I have a line on a very low hour 22 350 that already has the spring fork conversion done & an Akro system so really its just a matter of dropping the big bore in but I haven't got long to make a decision
Any input would be very much appreciated guy's
Thanks Rob
I installed a Cylinder Works 366 kit on my 2017 SXF 350 bike. I was blown away by the results. Must specify that I hate revving an engine. It's contradictory I know but I'm a vet rider. The bike becomes more efficient and the ride smoother. Now, I have a 2019 SXF 350 that I like less in its standard form... I'm coming soon to redo the top end and it's clear that I'm going to repeat the experience.
Rotaholic
Posts
1419
Joined
4/2/2013
Location
NZ
3/23/2022 4:46pm
Honestly just get the KTM450, the power is super mellow and doesn't wear you out
2

The Shop

Pirate421
Posts
1818
Joined
7/26/2015
Location
MA US
3/23/2022 4:56pm
I’ve owned a 350 and ridden 450s. Honestly if the 450 tires you out I wouldn’t think you’d need more than a 350. They are extremely fast and easy to ride. What makes them great is the lightweight feel and the lower inertia. If you get one try it in stock form I’d bet you’re surprised at how much power it has.

The 350s get a weird rap for being a “vet” bike and that somehow seems to infer that it must be slow. I know a few people who absolutely fly on 350’s and 250s for that matter. If you’re out to have fun I don’t think you can find a better bike. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!
3
Ryan625
Posts
1674
Joined
9/14/2019
Location
Lynnwood, WA US
3/23/2022 5:22pm
There are a few options out there to actually reduce the displacement of a 450 as well. Personally I love the 350 engine as is on the stock map #2

I’ve heard amazing things about them after having Twisted Development do the mapping too.
2
Bearuno
Posts
4142
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
3/23/2022 7:03pm
A Lot can be done to the delivery / HP levels that are wearing you out, via Mapping.

That and a flywheel weight, should be something you should try with your current 450.

The differences between 3 of my mates same year (2021) YZF450s is astounding, purely from the changes they've made using the Yamaha 'phone apps, and, one of them also fitting a flywheel weight. That one is so easy to ride, yet, it is still '450 fast' Woohoo .
3/23/2022 7:58pm
350 is plenty for 99% of us, but I enjoy riding lazy on the 450. Have to work harder to go fast on a 350. If you just want to have fun go 350.
RaceFace58
Posts
832
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT US
3/23/2022 8:50pm
To each their own but it seems counterproductive to go the 350 route and then look to add displacement. I’d work on making the 450 mellower which is easily doable.
3
1
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/23/2022 9:37pm
rob2489 wrote:
Hi Guy's long time Aussie lurker but first post. I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450...
Hi Guy's
long time Aussie lurker but first post.
I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450 & it is a great bike but it wears me out quickly. I manage to ride MX once a week with friends some A & B grade level. I'm probably upper C grade level and while it is competitive between us none of us race. I had been considering what to do next and the idea of running a 350 with a big bore might be the compromise I may be looking for between manageable power and not wearing me out after a few laps. I am a little undecided due to previously having an 18 KTM350 standard bore and could not come to terms in riding style keeping it in the upper rpms every where. I have read that the big bore shifts the power down to more mid range and adds to the bottom end where for me I felt it needs it.
Can any of you chaps that run one give me some feedback??
Are you happy with it & would you run one again??
What displacement are people running??
I thought I read that Derek Harris on this forum did big bores??
I have a line on a very low hour 22 350 that already has the spring fork conversion done & an Akro system so really its just a matter of dropping the big bore in but I haven't got long to make a decision
Any input would be very much appreciated guy's
Thanks Rob
TheVetGuy wrote:
I installed a Cylinder Works 366 kit on my 2017 SXF 350 bike. I was blown away by the results. Must specify that I hate revving...
I installed a Cylinder Works 366 kit on my 2017 SXF 350 bike. I was blown away by the results. Must specify that I hate revving an engine. It's contradictory I know but I'm a vet rider. The bike becomes more efficient and the ride smoother. Now, I have a 2019 SXF 350 that I like less in its standard form... I'm coming soon to redo the top end and it's clear that I'm going to repeat the experience.
That's good to hear. I know some may say why sell a 450 go to a 350 then increase the displacement. What I was trying to achieve was a compromise between the 2
1
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/23/2022 9:45pm
Pirate421 wrote:
I’ve owned a 350 and ridden 450s. Honestly if the 450 tires you out I wouldn’t think you’d need more than a 350. They are extremely...
I’ve owned a 350 and ridden 450s. Honestly if the 450 tires you out I wouldn’t think you’d need more than a 350. They are extremely fast and easy to ride. What makes them great is the lightweight feel and the lower inertia. If you get one try it in stock form I’d bet you’re surprised at how much power it has.

The 350s get a weird rap for being a “vet” bike and that somehow seems to infer that it must be slow. I know a few people who absolutely fly on 350’s and 250s for that matter. If you’re out to have fun I don’t think you can find a better bike. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!
I have already had a 350 and struggled with the lack of low end and revving to 12,000 rpm everywhere doesn't do it for me. hence why I though the big bore lowering the meat of the power might be a good thing.
2
1
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/23/2022 9:47pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
To each their own but it seems counterproductive to go the 350 route and then look to add displacement. I’d work on making the 450 mellower...
To each their own but it seems counterproductive to go the 350 route and then look to add displacement. I’d work on making the 450 mellower which is easily doable.
That's what I'm trying to decide in some instances having a mellower 450 may make it feel even heavier.
1
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/23/2022 9:49pm
Do a red moto 400 kit to your Honda or there low comp piston.
has anybody tried this or used one for MX?? wouldn't it make the bike feel heavier due to the mellower power
1
J-Mill
Posts
167
Joined
7/11/2020
Location
Cottonwood, CA US
3/23/2022 10:34pm
The 350 with a Vortex (or flashed ECU on older models) with proper gearing that suits your style is the deal. Just that and suspension that’s setup for you and you have a bad ass machine.
1
suspensionguy
Posts
779
Joined
4/23/2018
Location
Bend, OR US
Fantasy
2001st
3/23/2022 10:58pm
Do a red moto 400 kit to your Honda or there low comp piston.
rob2489 wrote:
has anybody tried this or used one for MX?? wouldn't it make the bike feel heavier due to the mellower power
I doubt it would make it feel heavier.

For what it’s worth... I run a lower compression heads on both my 250sx’s, one head is a xc and the other xcw. The power is still very strong, you can twist it more, less rider fatigue, more traction and most probably wouldn’t know the compression is reduced unless I told them.

I’d personally choose a mellow 450 over a 350 every day.
Splat03
Posts
118
Joined
8/5/2018
Location
Kiowa, CO US
3/24/2022 7:44am
I have a ‘16 350 with a ton of hours. I rebuilt the engine last year and put in a high compression piston instead of a stocker. It has not significantly changed the “weight” feel of the bike while riding. I didn’t have it dynoed after the rebuild. The butt feel is a touch more low end and a touch to a little more loss of top end. As a vet rider myself, with the almost exact same measurements in height and weight(6’1”, 210-212 lb) this has been an awesome change to the 350. It’s still not a 450 in terms of power, but it’s not a 450 in terms of weight and rotating mass. You start to lose the weight benefits of a 350 when you go big bore.
I’m a huge fan of the 350, especially for the vet riders. I feel like I can ride it longer than a 450. It will do anything on a moto track that I feel I have the ability to do and then some. I’ve watched much more talented riders go way faster than me on 350s so I know the bike has more in the tank than I do. It’s not the answer for everyone but it’s what worked for me.
2
bvm111
Posts
9323
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
3/24/2022 8:01am
Just get a 2019 or above 350, 51 tooth rear sprocket, vortex ignition… and thank me later!

i’m 48, 225 pounds, Vet B and my 350 rips compared to my 20.5 450. the 450 is lethargic everywhere, where the 350 is quick, light, agile, has plenty of power and WAY more fun to ride. I wouldn’t do anything else to it and you will wonder why or how you rode a 450 all those years!
4
3/24/2022 11:01am
I know exactly what you want, a lighter, low end plodder bike.
I don't think what you want can be had.
Good luck, this was one of the reasons I stopped riding in the end.
3
rohleder644
Posts
1053
Joined
1/18/2011
Location
Lee’s Summit, MO US
3/24/2022 11:18am
I know exactly what you want, a lighter, low end plodder bike. I don't think what you want can be had. Good luck, this was one...
I know exactly what you want, a lighter, low end plodder bike.
I don't think what you want can be had.
Good luck, this was one of the reasons I stopped riding in the end.
I don’t know man, sounds an awful lot like a 300 2 stroke.
2
Sandusky26
Posts
2672
Joined
7/28/2021
Location
Eastern, NC US
3/24/2022 12:13pm
less power than the 450 honda? no-one recommended the rmz 450?
The small block Chevy style power delivery and extra weight might make the fatigue worse.
stone881
Posts
866
Joined
12/26/2014
Location
Fruita, CO US
3/24/2022 12:38pm
Pirate421 wrote:
I’ve owned a 350 and ridden 450s. Honestly if the 450 tires you out I wouldn’t think you’d need more than a 350. They are extremely...
I’ve owned a 350 and ridden 450s. Honestly if the 450 tires you out I wouldn’t think you’d need more than a 350. They are extremely fast and easy to ride. What makes them great is the lightweight feel and the lower inertia. If you get one try it in stock form I’d bet you’re surprised at how much power it has.

The 350s get a weird rap for being a “vet” bike and that somehow seems to infer that it must be slow. I know a few people who absolutely fly on 350’s and 250s for that matter. If you’re out to have fun I don’t think you can find a better bike. Good luck and let us know what you end up with!
rob2489 wrote:
I have already had a 350 and struggled with the lack of low end and revving to 12,000 rpm everywhere doesn't do it for me. hence...
I have already had a 350 and struggled with the lack of low end and revving to 12,000 rpm everywhere doesn't do it for me. hence why I though the big bore lowering the meat of the power might be a good thing.
Before you go dropping major coin on mods, try a 13 tooth drive sprocket. That will bring in the revs to where you can actually get to the 14k rev limiter. I personally like to rev a bike, having grown up on 2 strokes and this was a great mod for my 350. Others who have tried it didn't like it, so to each his own.
3/24/2022 1:07pm
Maybe Beta will share the same models in their new MX as they have in their off-road bikes. They offer a 350, 390, 430, and 500 currently which all have different character. The 390 is very popular for obvious reasons, including this thread. Same piston with longer stroke and it gives you more low end, but still plenty through the range.

My 390 has the race map and FMF and it's great. I will buy another one if they offer it in their MX line. The 430 and 500 don't make sense for MX, but they could easily offer the 390 in between the 350 and 450 and I think it would be a very popular bike.
digger
Posts
737
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Upstate, NY US
Fantasy
3871st
3/24/2022 2:20pm
rob2489 wrote:
Hi Guy's long time Aussie lurker but first post. I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450...
Hi Guy's
long time Aussie lurker but first post.
I'm 53 years young 6ft 2 and 213 pounds my current ride is a 21 CRF 450 & it is a great bike but it wears me out quickly. I manage to ride MX once a week with friends some A & B grade level. I'm probably upper C grade level and while it is competitive between us none of us race. I had been considering what to do next and the idea of running a 350 with a big bore might be the compromise I may be looking for between manageable power and not wearing me out after a few laps. I am a little undecided due to previously having an 18 KTM350 standard bore and could not come to terms in riding style keeping it in the upper rpms every where. I have read that the big bore shifts the power down to more mid range and adds to the bottom end where for me I felt it needs it.
Can any of you chaps that run one give me some feedback??
Are you happy with it & would you run one again??
What displacement are people running??
I thought I read that Derek Harris on this forum did big bores??
I have a line on a very low hour 22 350 that already has the spring fork conversion done & an Akro system so really its just a matter of dropping the big bore in but I haven't got long to make a decision
Any input would be very much appreciated guy's
Thanks Rob
The RedMoto 400cc kit was designed for pretty much exactly what you are describing. I'm not sure who the Australian distributer for RedMoto is, but here's a link to the US distributer.

https://www.redmotousa.com/product-page/400rx-engine-kit
1
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/24/2022 3:41pm
Well I took to long to make up my mind and the bike slipped through my fingers. I'm annoyed that I procrastinated for too long and missed the deal.
I might look at the red moto kit and found the us dealer - check point moto.
I know I need to work more on fitness but as most would know when your in your 50's life gets in the way of some of that stuff too.
back to the drawing board I guess.
rob2489
Posts
33
Joined
7/15/2019
Location
AU
3/24/2022 3:44pm
bvm111 wrote:
Just get a 2019 or above 350, 51 tooth rear sprocket, vortex ignition… and thank me later! i’m 48, 225 pounds, Vet B and my 350...
Just get a 2019 or above 350, 51 tooth rear sprocket, vortex ignition… and thank me later!

i’m 48, 225 pounds, Vet B and my 350 rips compared to my 20.5 450. the 450 is lethargic everywhere, where the 350 is quick, light, agile, has plenty of power and WAY more fun to ride. I wouldn’t do anything else to it and you will wonder why or how you rode a 450 all those years!
I ran the 18 350 for a short while and didn't really like the power characteristics of that even running an additional 2 teeth on the rear

Post a reply to: Big Bore 350??

The Latest