Best/Worst rider investments

Polestar
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Polestar
What are your picks for the best and worst rider investments that teams have done for mx/sx?(in the more recent years)
Webb and Hill were at the bottom for sure at the start of the season but i think they have come a great way.
Is Anderson the best bang for buck through time?
Tickle's black cloud that Canard left for him cant be that nice to have hanging around.

I dont actually know what each rider did cost each team, but im guessing Tomac cost more than say Anderson or Bagget for instance.
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Solli2208
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Solli2208 3/4/2018 8:58am
3/4/2018 8:58am
Polestar wrote:
What are your picks for the best and worst rider investments that teams have done for mx/sx?(in the more recent years) Webb and Hill were at...
What are your picks for the best and worst rider investments that teams have done for mx/sx?(in the more recent years)
Webb and Hill were at the bottom for sure at the start of the season but i think they have come a great way.
Is Anderson the best bang for buck through time?
Tickle's black cloud that Canard left for him cant be that nice to have hanging around.

I dont actually know what each rider did cost each team, but im guessing Tomac cost more than say Anderson or Bagget for instance.
Rockstar Energy Racing Husqvarna extended the Contract with Anderson for another 4 Years at the beginning of the Year so i think he is right up there on Top of the Salary list.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 3/4/2018 11:30am
3/4/2018 11:30am
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship and he became a top 5 rider of all time.

Worst would have to be Alessi. So many amateur championships. Ton of hype. Big factory contract after big factory contract. Very few wins to show for it. And zero championships.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 3/4/2018 11:56am
3/4/2018 11:56am
3 of JGR top picks over the years have been 3 of the top 5 worst picks/results
St Ann More
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St Ann More 3/4/2018 12:04pm
3/4/2018 12:04pm
Josh Hansen 2018, undoubtedly one of the best investments!

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scott_nz
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scott_nz 3/4/2018 12:53pm
3/4/2018 12:53pm
Team Honda has had a string of bad luck/choices, they spend as much as anyone else, if not more, and have not had a 450 championship in over 10 years,
jorgechavez 3/4/2018 1:01pm
3/4/2018 1:01pm
One of the worst would be JGR and James Stewart, I believe it was supposed to be a 3 year deal but it ended after about 6 months.
magoo1982
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magoo1982 3/4/2018 1:08pm
3/4/2018 1:08pm
jorgechavez wrote:
One of the worst would be JGR and James Stewart, I believe it was supposed to be a 3 year deal but it ended after about...
One of the worst would be JGR and James Stewart, I believe it was supposed to be a 3 year deal but it ended after about 6 months.
what ever Suzuki paid him also , he always said bike needs more work and made it look bad. then roczen gets on one and wins championship...
MudPup545
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MudPup545 3/4/2018 2:10pm
3/4/2018 2:10pm
Best: KTM/Ryan Dungey
Worst: KTM/Jeremy McGrath
HenryA
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HenryA 3/4/2018 2:27pm
3/4/2018 2:27pm
Pourcel / MotoConcepts
Justin Hil, Canard, Tickle / KTM
Weimer / Kawasaki
Dean Ferris / Red Bull KTM
Arnaud Tonus / Pro circuit (He rode good when he actually was riding)


Hate to say it but Roczen and Honda is not looking that good either.

Best:
RV2 / Kawasaki
RD5 / KTM
71Fish
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71Fish 3/4/2018 2:28pm
3/4/2018 2:28pm
jorgechavez wrote:
One of the worst would be JGR and James Stewart, I believe it was supposed to be a 3 year deal but it ended after about...
One of the worst would be JGR and James Stewart, I believe it was supposed to be a 3 year deal but it ended after about 6 months.
That deal has to be one of the worst of all time. So much promise, even came with a possible NASCAR deal. That would have been fun to see.
Thisusernameisavailable 3/4/2018 2:50pm
3/4/2018 2:50pm
A true understanding of ROI is required here.
Did JGR fail by employing JS7? Did Yoshimura suzuki fail by employing JS7?
There were a hell of a lot of photos taken of him during those times. The sponsors certainly got a lot of airtime. Is that a failure?

Is winning races the only way to produce a marketing success?
HRC would've done very very well to put Reed or even better JS7 on Seely's bike.
Reggsie
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Reggsie 3/4/2018 3:10pm
3/4/2018 3:10pm
JGR doubling down on Barcia after a few strong motos one year and then going through another few years of disappointment was a bad one.

Paradoxically, Yamaha picking up Barcia this year turned out to be a great investment. Assuming Barcia stays strong when he comes back.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 3/4/2018 3:27pm
3/4/2018 3:27pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship...
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship and he became a top 5 rider of all time.

Worst would have to be Alessi. So many amateur championships. Ton of hype. Big factory contract after big factory contract. Very few wins to show for it. And zero championships.
Mike was the only rider to keep RC and
James honest, not an easy feat for anybody.
bd
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bd 3/4/2018 3:30pm
3/4/2018 3:30pm
scott_nz wrote:
Team Honda has had a string of bad luck/choices, they spend as much as anyone else, if not more, and have not had a 450 championship...
Team Honda has had a string of bad luck/choices, they spend as much as anyone else, if not more, and have not had a 450 championship in over 10 years,
Who were Honda’s bad choices?
bd
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bd 3/4/2018 3:32pm
3/4/2018 3:32pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship...
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship and he became a top 5 rider of all time.

Worst would have to be Alessi. So many amateur championships. Ton of hype. Big factory contract after big factory contract. Very few wins to show for it. And zero championships.
BobbyM wrote:
Mike was the only rider to keep RC and
James honest, not an easy feat for anybody.
I agree Bobby. Mike Alessi was the only rider to keep JS7 in sight when he went 24-0 and he would of won the 450 title in 2009 had he not gotten hurt. He was on the gas.
bd
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bd 3/4/2018 3:34pm
3/4/2018 3:34pm
The ROI for Reedy is unreal when you speak of marketing promotions. A title, not so much.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 3/4/2018 4:23pm
3/4/2018 4:23pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship...
I don’t think the first is even close and it’s Dungey. DeCoster took a risk on a fairly unknown B rider with only 1 Loretta’s championship and he became a top 5 rider of all time.

Worst would have to be Alessi. So many amateur championships. Ton of hype. Big factory contract after big factory contract. Very few wins to show for it. And zero championships.
BobbyM wrote:
Mike was the only rider to keep RC and
James honest, not an easy feat for anybody.
Yep. Dungey too. Just with regards to championship expectations he needs to be mentioned on this list.

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loftyair
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loftyair 3/4/2018 4:40pm
3/4/2018 4:40pm Edited Date/Time 3/4/2018 4:41pm
McGrath, Dungey went big upside.
Millsaps other way.
Pourcel down too, compared with expectations.
Oh, pastrana fell short.
Izzy too.
Devenhallen 3/4/2018 4:49pm
3/4/2018 4:49pm
Many don’t understand investments that are good don’t require championships...
jorgechavez 3/4/2018 5:07pm
3/4/2018 5:07pm
crf250pilot wrote:
Jake Weimer to Kawasaki from PC has to be one of worst.
I disagree, it probably wasn't great but I don't think he was ever hired to win races or titles. I have to think his job was to fill the role that Josh Grant currently (if he wasn't hurt) fills. He almost always had the bike in the top 10 and got a few podiums along the way. I don't think they could have asked for much more, there was definitely a chance that he could have figured it out and maybe have been a threat for wins but I doubt too many people expected that.
davis224
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davis224 3/4/2018 5:24pm
3/4/2018 5:24pm
HenryA wrote:
Pourcel / MotoConcepts Justin Hil, Canard, Tickle / KTM Weimer / Kawasaki Dean Ferris / Red Bull KTM Arnaud Tonus / Pro circuit (He rode good...
Pourcel / MotoConcepts
Justin Hil, Canard, Tickle / KTM
Weimer / Kawasaki
Dean Ferris / Red Bull KTM
Arnaud Tonus / Pro circuit (He rode good when he actually was riding)


Hate to say it but Roczen and Honda is not looking that good either.

Best:
RV2 / Kawasaki
RD5 / KTM
While Pourcel at Motoconcepts wasn't a success at all, didn't he refuse Mike Genova's last checks?
scott_nz
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scott_nz 3/4/2018 5:40pm
3/4/2018 5:40pm
scott_nz wrote:
Team Honda has had a string of bad luck/choices, they spend as much as anyone else, if not more, and have not had a 450 championship...
Team Honda has had a string of bad luck/choices, they spend as much as anyone else, if not more, and have not had a 450 championship in over 10 years,
bd wrote:
Who were Honda’s bad choices?
past 250 champs that did not perform or get close to a SX title only a few even won 450 SX races,

Barcia,
Canard
Townley
Tedesco
Millsaps

Kenny the jury is still out, im not sure he will be the rider he was last year ever again,

Short never won a SX for them
Seely has a couple of wins, but

HRC love winning, and its a been a while since a championship,
Drtbykr
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Drtbykr 3/4/2018 5:40pm
3/4/2018 5:40pm Edited Date/Time 3/4/2018 5:41pm
Worse had to be Dean Wilson on KTM. He owes all us orange people money.

Best are the legends that live on and you affiliate them and a brand of motorcycle with incredible success or entertainment value. Priceless
Idaho747
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Idaho747 3/4/2018 6:32pm
3/4/2018 6:32pm
crf250pilot wrote:
Jake Weimer to Kawasaki from PC has to be one of worst.
jorgechavez wrote:
I disagree, it probably wasn't great but I don't think he was ever hired to win races or titles. I have to think his job was...
I disagree, it probably wasn't great but I don't think he was ever hired to win races or titles. I have to think his job was to fill the role that Josh Grant currently (if he wasn't hurt) fills. He almost always had the bike in the top 10 and got a few podiums along the way. I don't think they could have asked for much more, there was definitely a chance that he could have figured it out and maybe have been a threat for wins but I doubt too many people expected that.
I think most teams pick their all star ( rv ja21 rd5 and such like that) and pick their “support rider” the likeable guy that is a somewhat safe bet. ( Weimer Wilson Musquin) but don’t put too much stress on the safe bet part lol
Forty
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Forty 3/4/2018 6:36pm
3/4/2018 6:36pm
Always felt like ROI on Davi Millsaps was poor over the span of his career.
Pembroke36
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Pembroke36 3/4/2018 8:08pm
3/4/2018 8:08pm
Marty, ever since he replaced Kiedrowski at Kawi and has been paid to win a championship.
Akira
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Akira 3/4/2018 8:15pm
3/4/2018 8:15pm
For the last few years in the States, 450 OEM's top 5:

Worst

DW15 KTM
TC41 KTM (they learned the lesson no more third rider lol)
JB51 JGR
CW2 Yami
DM18 Kawi
Extra: CP377 - MA800 but that was a bit ago.

Best (can't include JB51 Yami nor JH46 JGR just few races)

RD5 KTM
BB4 Butler
JA21 Husky
ET3 Kawi
WP34 JGR
Extra: JB10 MCR - BT20 RCH

From a marketing perspective other than titles and wins KR I'd like to say is still a relatively fair investment for Honda as he gets huge attention pretty much like CR on the Yami last year. However Kenny better win a lot before the end of 2019 or he would take a large pay-cut. JS with zook in 2014 set rides for history so IMO that year he earned what he was pay for.
Flatliner
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Flatliner 3/4/2018 9:18pm
3/4/2018 9:18pm
loftyair wrote:
McGrath, Dungey went big upside.
Millsaps other way.
Pourcel down too, compared with expectations.
Oh, pastrana fell short.
Izzy too.
Pastrana ..... no way. He did win , and brought Suzuki more exposure than anyone probably ever.

He earned every dollar Suzuki paid him, that guy could have left for another team for the same or more money several times, but didn’t.
SwingHard
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SwingHard 3/4/2018 9:36pm
3/4/2018 9:36pm
Best= Honda & Jeff Stanton
Worst= not moto but,David Knight & BMW

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