Bayle vs McGrath

burnside
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burnside
Edited Date/Time 4/20/2012 7:23am
That video got me thinking... if Bayle retired at 23 (which is nuts!), can you imagine the battles between these two if he had stuck around a few more years? Bayle would have been 25 when MC moved up. I wonder how that might have affected the record books... Where's Sam Beckett when you need him!!? haha.

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Pat327
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Pat327 3/31/2012 2:34am
3/31/2012 2:34am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2012 2:37am
mx_563
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mx_563 3/31/2012 3:49am
3/31/2012 3:49am
I think his best finish was a top ten in the premier class (500c). I could be wrong but I think I heard that someplace, perhaps a Matthes podcast with JMB.
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Hawwy 3/31/2012 5:25am
3/31/2012 5:25am
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!

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Franklin Bluth 3/31/2012 5:47am
3/31/2012 5:47am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2012 5:48am
Hawwy wrote:
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels! JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure...
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much. When JMB wanted to he could beat anyone and make them look slow in the process. Watch the previous season when MC raced some east coast 250 races ... Bayle passed MC like he was standing still.

I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge. I know you can only race the guys that line up but to say that because MC beat who was in front of him he would've done the same to JMB is crazy. MC may have still won but I don't think he would've won as much who knows ...
burnside
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burnside 3/31/2012 6:04am
3/31/2012 6:04am
Hawwy wrote:
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels! JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure...
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!
Franklin Bluth wrote:
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much...
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much. When JMB wanted to he could beat anyone and make them look slow in the process. Watch the previous season when MC raced some east coast 250 races ... Bayle passed MC like he was standing still.

I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge. I know you can only race the guys that line up but to say that because MC beat who was in front of him he would've done the same to JMB is crazy. MC may have still won but I don't think he would've won as much who knows ...
Yeah I wasn't trying to slap a * on the king... but damn, when he was winning 10+ races a season would have been good to see JMB out there. Thats why we need Sam Becket! haha.
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BobbyM 3/31/2012 6:18am
3/31/2012 6:18am
burnside wrote:
That video got me thinking... if Bayle retired at 23 (which is nuts!), can you imagine the battles between these two if he had stuck around...
That video got me thinking... if Bayle retired at 23 (which is nuts!), can you imagine the battles between these two if he had stuck around a few more years? Bayle would have been 25 when MC moved up. I wonder how that might have affected the record books... Where's Sam Beckett when you need him!!? haha.

i thought he just switched genres...not retired.
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Paul333 3/31/2012 7:54am
3/31/2012 7:54am
burnside wrote:
That video got me thinking... if Bayle retired at 23 (which is nuts!), can you imagine the battles between these two if he had stuck around...
That video got me thinking... if Bayle retired at 23 (which is nuts!), can you imagine the battles between these two if he had stuck around a few more years? Bayle would have been 25 when MC moved up. I wonder how that might have affected the record books... Where's Sam Beckett when you need him!!? haha.

I think it would have been fun to watch that's for sure.
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ridge 3/31/2012 8:45am
3/31/2012 8:45am
Great post! The mind games those two would have had...
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BAMX 3/31/2012 10:50am
3/31/2012 10:50am
Hawwy wrote:
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels! JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure...
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!
Franklin Bluth wrote:
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much...
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much. When JMB wanted to he could beat anyone and make them look slow in the process. Watch the previous season when MC raced some east coast 250 races ... Bayle passed MC like he was standing still.

I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge. I know you can only race the guys that line up but to say that because MC beat who was in front of him he would've done the same to JMB is crazy. MC may have still won but I don't think he would've won as much who knows ...
You wrote: " I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge." ?????????

What kind of crack are you smoking? He won championships over the course of 8 years. How can that be the result of weak fields?
Franklin Bluth 3/31/2012 11:17am
3/31/2012 11:17am
Hawwy wrote:
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels! JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure...
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!
Franklin Bluth wrote:
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much...
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much. When JMB wanted to he could beat anyone and make them look slow in the process. Watch the previous season when MC raced some east coast 250 races ... Bayle passed MC like he was standing still.

I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge. I know you can only race the guys that line up but to say that because MC beat who was in front of him he would've done the same to JMB is crazy. MC may have still won but I don't think he would've won as much who knows ...
BAMX wrote:
You wrote: " I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on...
You wrote: " I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge." ?????????

What kind of crack are you smoking? He won championships over the course of 8 years. How can that be the result of weak fields?
To answer your questions:

1. I don't smoke crack so there is no kind that I smoke.

2. I'll answer that question with a question to you ... how many riders did McGrath race against during his reign are hall of famers and could legitimately beat him? List them and you'll see what I mean. Look, McGrath is incredible undoubtedly but that time during the sport saw a major lull in talent. Emig was one of the only guys that beat McGrath but can you name anyone else that could really challenge him? Yes, part of the problem was that McGrath had so much talent and was better than everyone else but there was also a talent drain with many of the top guys leaving when McGrath began to dominate.
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Park Boys 3/31/2012 11:45am
3/31/2012 11:45am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2012 6:38pm
Hawwy wrote:
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels! JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure...
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!
Franklin Bluth wrote:
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much...
Woulda coulda shoulda is right ... you do know that many of the things MC was doing he learned from Bayle and even said as much. When JMB wanted to he could beat anyone and make them look slow in the process. Watch the previous season when MC raced some east coast 250 races ... Bayle passed MC like he was standing still.

I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge. I know you can only race the guys that line up but to say that because MC beat who was in front of him he would've done the same to JMB is crazy. MC may have still won but I don't think he would've won as much who knows ...
BAMX wrote:
You wrote: " I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on...
You wrote: " I love MC but I'm telling you that he became the "king" in an era where many of the top riders were on their way out and the new crop coming up weren't ready for the challenge." ?????????

What kind of crack are you smoking? He won championships over the course of 8 years. How can that be the result of weak fields?
MC is the king of Supercross, that said in 93 when he came in Bayle was gone, Bradshaw had burned out and then quit! and Stanton wasn't the same either indoors or out. LaRocco should have been MC's biggest challenger but was always hurt in 1994 and 95. In 1995 Larry Ward got Second overall to MC on a privater bike the only time in history that has happend. I'm the worlds biggest EMIG fan but MX was his gig he challenged MC in 96 beat him in 97 and fell off the SX world. Lusk had speed but also crashed too much to challenge Jeremy for a season. But to answer the question Bayle vs MC in the 93,94 era Bayle overall had the edge, Bayle and MC would have had great battles indoors, but outdoors please Bayle was on another level at that time of MC's career. IMHO.
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Denn700 3/31/2012 2:37pm
3/31/2012 2:37pm
I agree with the outdoor part but disagree with the indoor part. I just watched 1991-1996 sx seasons. I think Bayle was as smooth as MC but what he didn't have is the ability to do jumps that MC was doing. If you watch the races that is where MC put the time in everyone. He would stay lower over the jumps and jumps stuff that no one else did.
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Harry_Gray 3/31/2012 3:34pm
3/31/2012 3:34pm
Park Boys wrote:
MC is the king of Supercross, that said in 93 when he came in Bayle was gone, Bradshaw had burned out and then quit! and Stanton...
MC is the king of Supercross, that said in 93 when he came in Bayle was gone, Bradshaw had burned out and then quit! and Stanton wasn't the same either indoors or out. LaRocco should have been MC's biggest challenger but was always hurt in 1994 and 95. In 1995 Larry Ward got Second overall to MC on a privater bike the only time in history that has happend. I'm the worlds biggest EMIG fan but MX was his gig he challenged MC in 96 beat him in 97 and fell off the SX world. Lusk had speed but also crashed too much to challenge Jeremy for a season. But to answer the question Bayle vs MC in the 93,94 era Bayle overall had the edge, Bayle and MC would have had great battles indoors, but outdoors please Bayle was on another level at that time of MC's career. IMHO.
Just to clarify; it was Larry Ward on the Noleen team that finished 2nd to McGrath in 95. Kyle Lewis rode on the same team with him but I he finished further back in the standings. Back to the JMB/MC convo...If JMB stuck around for a few more years, I do think he would have beat McGrath for a title and got a few more race wins under his belt, but...McGrath still would have done a bunch of winning regardless.
bd
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bd 3/31/2012 4:24pm
3/31/2012 4:24pm
The same could of been said about RJ. Johnson was injured at his peak. I think RJ would have won at least two titles in 1989 and 1990 (at a minimum). MC brought a new style to SX and MX. From watching videos, JMB was the quickest learner I have seen in our sport. He would have quickly adapted had MC's style increased speed.

I do believe MC would still be the King of SX. Had JMB (and RJ before him), his career might have lasted longer. Prior RC, MC's only tough competition was from Emig, Henry, and Lusk.
burnside
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burnside 3/31/2012 5:35pm
3/31/2012 5:35pm
bd wrote:
The same could of been said about RJ. Johnson was injured at his peak. I think RJ would have won at least two titles in 1989...
The same could of been said about RJ. Johnson was injured at his peak. I think RJ would have won at least two titles in 1989 and 1990 (at a minimum). MC brought a new style to SX and MX. From watching videos, JMB was the quickest learner I have seen in our sport. He would have quickly adapted had MC's style increased speed.

I do believe MC would still be the King of SX. Had JMB (and RJ before him), his career might have lasted longer. Prior RC, MC's only tough competition was from Emig, Henry, and Lusk.
One thing to bare in mind though, and this is all getting very cosmic... but think how much confidence his rookie season would have given him? The foundations to his Kingdom. ha. I suspect it would have been a lot tougher with JMB out there.
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Bigshow 3/31/2012 6:10pm
3/31/2012 6:10pm
RJ would have been only 27 in 1991, if he had not been injured I don't believe JMB would of won the 91 SX title. Let alone McGrath winning in 93. For one if RJ doesnt get hurt is there room for JMB on Team Honda? Is there room for McGrath in 93? One thing with RJ and his peers have said this If you beat him one week he will do whatever it takes to beat you the next.
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Park Boys 3/31/2012 6:42pm
3/31/2012 6:42pm
Bigshow wrote:
RJ would have been only 27 in 1991, if he had not been injured I don't believe JMB would of won the 91 SX title. Let...
RJ would have been only 27 in 1991, if he had not been injured I don't believe JMB would of won the 91 SX title. Let alone McGrath winning in 93. For one if RJ doesnt get hurt is there room for JMB on Team Honda? Is there room for McGrath in 93? One thing with RJ and his peers have said this If you beat him one week he will do whatever it takes to beat you the next.
Rick Johnson is a beast in a era when a different guy was suppose to win each week he won 61 races in a injury shortened career was a threat indoors and out! I never think about how young RJ was in 89 when he got landed on. To me he is the ultimate team Honda rider! I would rank RJ behind only RC,DeCoster and Hannah.

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Bigshow 4/19/2012 6:41pm
4/19/2012 6:41pm
Not to take anything away from RC but he was the 2nd coming of RJ just without Ward, Bailey, Omara, and Lechien. RD has made comment when RJ first came to Honda Bailey and Omara was best friends and trained hard and was in better shape than RJ. RJ then put his nose to the grind wheel and did what he had do to beat all competitors. This is the kind of stuff I have heard all over again with RC. I believe a RJ in his prime could/would race with anyone on equal equipment. He had that drive!
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dv12.com 4/19/2012 7:46pm
4/19/2012 7:46pm
Hawwy wrote:
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels! JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure...
Didn't JMB get a pole position in qualifying? Either way, he was a freak on two wheels!

JMB vs MC - shoulda, woulda, coulda... i'm sure it wouldn't have been as easy, but MC is the king and beat what was infront of him!
Yes he poled the 500cc class once. I think it was Brno on a Yamaha
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Prairieboy43 4/19/2012 8:34pm
4/19/2012 8:34pm
They were both awesome. Honda was lucky. Bayle quit, Mcgrath inherited his ride. Honda ruled. Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki were doomed. The rest is MX history. Move on.
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Xsenter 4/19/2012 8:42pm
4/19/2012 8:42pm
What are u guys trying to say with all this ? Stupid thread !

MC was on another level both with talent and skills. Add to that...he rode with his brains !

Talent, skill, smart.... That was the winning combo of MC !

Bayle had all those 3 but had the riding style of the 80's in him to much. Even if he would adapted , don't think he would have gotten close to MC. BUT ! ...if both MC and Bayle were in the same age , then we would have seen a battle of finess and mind games !
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RaceFace 4/19/2012 8:59pm
4/19/2012 8:59pm
Bayle dominated US racing for exactly one year. It is part of the equation that he didn't have the desire or drive to continue to do it year after year. One year later he obviously was not working at it as Bradshaw was dominant over everyone including Bayle (but didn't win it all). So I doubt Bayle would have done anything to MC's career as it needs to be a big what-if for Bayle to have been out there at all. In a similar fashion, we can ask what if Bradshaw didn't lose interest? Bradshaw is actually a year YOUNGER than MC and was coming off a 9 win year in MC's rookie year. The biggest what-if is Bradshaw in my opinion, not Bayle. Bradshaw should have still been out there and competitive for wins when RC broke into the 250 class. I still find it hard to believe that he is younger than McGrath, and basically lost interest at 20 years old and retired (the first time) at 21. Bradshaw had 19 SX wins before his 21st birthday. I think there are only a few guys that have any SX class wins that early let alone even 5. Stewart had 3 wins before he turned 21, MC had zero. 19?!!!
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Mr. G 4/19/2012 11:56pm
4/19/2012 11:56pm
Actually it's wudda, cudda, shuda, hada oughta, kinda, sorta.
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mmcmx 4/20/2012 1:56am
4/20/2012 1:56am
newmann wrote:
McGrath has the record books wrapped up so it is what it is. But did Jeremy ever pull the bobsled run? ;) JMB had the skills...
McGrath has the record books wrapped up so it is what it is. But did Jeremy ever pull the bobsled run? Wink JMB had the skills.


https://youtu.be/kZuUbwWDeO8
Man, thats crazy scary!
TripleDigit 4/20/2012 2:01am
4/20/2012 2:01am
RaceFace wrote:
Bayle dominated US racing for exactly one year. It is part of the equation that he didn't have the desire or drive to continue to do...
Bayle dominated US racing for exactly one year. It is part of the equation that he didn't have the desire or drive to continue to do it year after year. One year later he obviously was not working at it as Bradshaw was dominant over everyone including Bayle (but didn't win it all). So I doubt Bayle would have done anything to MC's career as it needs to be a big what-if for Bayle to have been out there at all. In a similar fashion, we can ask what if Bradshaw didn't lose interest? Bradshaw is actually a year YOUNGER than MC and was coming off a 9 win year in MC's rookie year. The biggest what-if is Bradshaw in my opinion, not Bayle. Bradshaw should have still been out there and competitive for wins when RC broke into the 250 class. I still find it hard to believe that he is younger than McGrath, and basically lost interest at 20 years old and retired (the first time) at 21. Bradshaw had 19 SX wins before his 21st birthday. I think there are only a few guys that have any SX class wins that early let alone even 5. Stewart had 3 wins before he turned 21, MC had zero. 19?!!!
Bayle did indeed dominate it that year,who knows how good he would have been if he hadn't been interested in other things like road racing? The guy was awesome,a total legend
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RaceFace 4/20/2012 5:01am
4/20/2012 5:01am
RaceFace wrote:
Bayle dominated US racing for exactly one year. It is part of the equation that he didn't have the desire or drive to continue to do...
Bayle dominated US racing for exactly one year. It is part of the equation that he didn't have the desire or drive to continue to do it year after year. One year later he obviously was not working at it as Bradshaw was dominant over everyone including Bayle (but didn't win it all). So I doubt Bayle would have done anything to MC's career as it needs to be a big what-if for Bayle to have been out there at all. In a similar fashion, we can ask what if Bradshaw didn't lose interest? Bradshaw is actually a year YOUNGER than MC and was coming off a 9 win year in MC's rookie year. The biggest what-if is Bradshaw in my opinion, not Bayle. Bradshaw should have still been out there and competitive for wins when RC broke into the 250 class. I still find it hard to believe that he is younger than McGrath, and basically lost interest at 20 years old and retired (the first time) at 21. Bradshaw had 19 SX wins before his 21st birthday. I think there are only a few guys that have any SX class wins that early let alone even 5. Stewart had 3 wins before he turned 21, MC had zero. 19?!!!
TripleDigit wrote:
Bayle did indeed dominate it that year,who knows how good he would have been if he hadn't been interested in other things like road racing? The...
Bayle did indeed dominate it that year,who knows how good he would have been if he hadn't been interested in other things like road racing? The guy was awesome,a total legend
Yep, but the what-ifs are all they are. As someone else said, if RJ doesn't get hurt maybe Stanton doesn't win muh at all and maybe Bayle doesn't win. RJ would have been 28 (I think) in 1991. The same what-if applies to Bradshaw. Bayle had other interests, Bradshaw lost interest, RJ got hurt. Bayle's what-if is no different than Bradshaw's.
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Tbteam 4/20/2012 6:19am
4/20/2012 6:19am
MC was awesome and a complete game changer as far as how to flow with the track.

BUT, I've said a hundred times that he was the recipient of possibly the best "timed" career in sports. His competition was missing the very few legends in our sport that just burned inside to get better and win at all costs.

That's just my opinion,. but I've had it since the first year that MC dominated.

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