Barcia Running Stock Motor

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11/10/2019 12:55 AM

Good interview with Swap. Says trying to change his riding style just hasn't worked for him, so now the plan of attack is less power to make the bike handle better when riding aggressively.

A tuned up 350 is what he needs.

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James = #7. Malcolm = #27
7/27=0.259259259259259259259
Stewart return confirmed!

11/10/2019 1:12 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/10/2019 1:29 AM

So to encapsulate the results for Paris SX:
Barcia: 1st with he says a stock motor and chassis on what we call the "blue pig".
Savatgy: 2nd running a stock motor with exhaust and suspension bits on the bike we say is too outdated.
Friese: 3rd with an off-the-dealer-floor vanilla Honda.

And then there are all of us Vital goofballs worrying about whether engine mounts, or ti footpegs, or factory editions will make the difference at the local track.

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11/10/2019 1:55 AM

Dirty Points wrote:

So to encapsulate the results for Paris SX:
Barcia: 1st with he says a stock motor and chassis on what we call the "blue pig".
Savatgy: 2nd running a stock motor with exhaust and suspension bits on the bike we say is too outdated.
Friese: 3rd with an off-the-dealer-floor vanilla Honda.

And then there are all of us Vital goofballs worrying about whether engine mounts, or ti footpegs, or factory editions will make the difference at the local track.

Best post I’ve ever seen

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11/10/2019 1:59 AM

oh yeah Barcia on a 350 would be dangerous for the competition

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11/10/2019 2:02 AM

sebastianer wrote:

oh yeah Barcia on a 350 would be dangerous for the competition

A 350 Yamaha built like their 250 would be an absolute weapon too.

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James = #7. Malcolm = #27
7/27=0.259259259259259259259
Stewart return confirmed!

11/10/2019 2:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/10/2019 2:29 AM

sebastianer wrote:

oh yeah Barcia on a 350 would be dangerous for the competition

Derpin' DJ wrote:

A 350 Yamaha built like their 250 would be an absolute weapon too.

The 450 is already built just like their 250. Has been since 2014 (with a changeover in '18 under which the 250 was still built just like the '13 450, and the 450 was actually the more compact of the two platforms).

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11/10/2019 2:22 AM

Hill switched to the stock motor for the nightshow as well. Are the days of fire breathing engines coming to an end?

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11/10/2019 2:26 AM

Not for nothing, but I’d Barcia doesn’t beat that comp he’s got bigger problems than his bike.

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Cheers, Crush
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11/10/2019 3:30 AM

Dirty Points wrote:

So to encapsulate the results for Paris SX:
Barcia: 1st with he says a stock motor and chassis on what we call the "blue pig".
Savatgy: 2nd running a stock motor with exhaust and suspension bits on the bike we say is too outdated.
Friese: 3rd with an off-the-dealer-floor vanilla Honda.

And then there are all of us Vital goofballs worrying about whether engine mounts, or ti footpegs, or factory editions will make the difference at the local track.

But this is what makes good riders great, the abilty to make a bike work. Anyone who knows anything knows that it isnt all about horsepower, once you get up to bigger bikes, which is all about getting what you have , to the ground. I have done eniugh development over the years to know that usable power is what its all about, because that transmits to repeatable lap time, and in our case, tyre life. Pourcel was always one for leaving the motor alone, and using what it had, the trouble with factory teams is that because they can change everything, they feel they have to..
Barcia needs to sort his shit out and fast, because Yamaha need results, AP has been a disappointment, i expected more based on his 250 form , injury hasnt helped , but i think they are both up at the end of 2020.

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11/10/2019 3:42 AM

Just let him ride a Star 250 in the 450 class and see what happens.

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11/10/2019 4:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/10/2019 4:28 AM

A 450's motor pushes out enough HP. We ran a stock motor for 2019 combined with a Vortex ignition.

Extra HP's help in practice qualifying when the tracks are deep...but for the most part, a stock motor is plenty.

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11/10/2019 4:26 AM

Probably will never happen, but I too would really like to see what Justin would do on an Austrian 350.

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11/10/2019 4:26 AM

Anyone pay any attention to how Roczen rides the nationals? Sounds like he is idling around the track...look, listen and learn.

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11/10/2019 4:31 AM

Boomslang wrote:

A 450's motor pushes out enough HP. We ran a stock motor for 2019 combined with a Vortex ignition.

Extra HP's help in practice qualifying when the tracks are deep...but for the most part, a stock motor is plenty.

How many National motos or SX mains did you win with that stock engine?

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11/10/2019 5:00 AM

Lol

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11/10/2019 5:54 AM

Boomslang wrote:

Anyone pay any attention to how Roczen rides the nationals? Sounds like he is idling around the track...look, listen and learn.

True, but roczen also uses a high HP bike with lots of low torque to do that. Barcia is complete opposite. He is basically saying you can’t change a zebras stripes. I rev the bike and I set up my bike to be revved. It’s what he knows.

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11/10/2019 6:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/10/2019 6:06 AM

Boomslang wrote:

Anyone pay any attention to how Roczen rides the nationals? Sounds like he is idling around the track...look, listen and learn.

Zycki11 wrote:

True, but roczen also uses a high HP bike with lots of low torque to do that. Barcia is complete opposite. He is basically saying you can’t change a zebras stripes. I rev the bike and I set up my bike to be revved. It’s what he knows.

High reving 450s don’t handle as well, and that is Barcias problem.

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11/10/2019 6:04 AM

Boomslang wrote:

A 450's motor pushes out enough HP. We ran a stock motor for 2019 combined with a Vortex ignition.

Extra HP's help in practice qualifying when the tracks are deep...but for the most part, a stock motor is plenty.

APLMAN99 wrote:

How many National motos or SX mains did you win with that stock engine?

None.

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11/10/2019 6:08 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/10/2019 6:14 AM

Look at it this way:

A 450 probably has between 54 and 59 HP stock (sorry, I don't really keep up / memorize individual bike dyno graphs nowadays), with a shed load of Torque.

Barcia is a revver - he says he just can't change that. A Leopard, that has tried, but can't change his spots.

Fair enough.

Now, him running higher revs than others, with so bloody much power available with Stockers now, might just give him the same power at the rear wheel as a bloke with a modified engine, but running far lower revs. Pretty logical, really.

450s - even the best riders are generally just moving power around to suit Them . To make them controllable for Them .

Heck, I recently had the chance to ride a mates YZF450F ( and a YZ250F), with various settings via his Mobile phone. It was quite something to experience the differences that could be attained by just a minute or two on a 'phone. Even when ridden by a sit down nearly all the damned time, barely get off the ground, (very) slow old man. Every bloody bike should be so easily tuned - I wonder why other manufacturers have not gone that route? Perhaps Yamaha has locked it up via patents, or some such?

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11/10/2019 6:15 AM

Rev Limiter Barcia is better off without a hot rod engine, he can't help himself, he's his own worst enemy. His tuner's should have figured that out long ago. That race hopefully will cement the idea of what direction he needs to go, 3 Moto consistency on a slick track, it's good to see him back on form. That track wasn't exactly a true test of a SX bike.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

11/10/2019 6:40 AM

Boomslang wrote:

Anyone pay any attention to how Roczen rides the nationals? Sounds like he is idling around the track...look, listen and learn.

Zycki11 wrote:

True, but roczen also uses a high HP bike with lots of low torque to do that. Barcia is complete opposite. He is basically saying you can’t change a zebras stripes. I rev the bike and I set up my bike to be revved. It’s what he knows.

But who's had supercross success riding a 450 that way? Or 450 nationals?

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11/10/2019 6:45 AM

Dirty Points wrote:

So to encapsulate the results for Paris SX:
Barcia: 1st with he says a stock motor and chassis on what we call the "blue pig".
Savatgy: 2nd running a stock motor with exhaust and suspension bits on the bike we say is too outdated.
Friese: 3rd with an off-the-dealer-floor vanilla Honda.

And then there are all of us Vital goofballs worrying about whether engine mounts, or ti footpegs, or factory editions will make the difference at the local track.

BenC711 wrote:

Best post I’ve ever seen

All most of us need is suspension and ergonomics that are in the ballpark... If you want to get picky then add spring forks, and a Brembo front brake.

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11/10/2019 6:51 AM

Boomslang wrote:

A 450's motor pushes out enough HP. We ran a stock motor for 2019 combined with a Vortex ignition.

Extra HP's help in practice qualifying when the tracks are deep...but for the most part, a stock motor is plenty.

APLMAN99 wrote:

How many National motos or SX mains did you win with that stock engine?

Boomslang wrote:

None.

Maybe could have used a little bit more power?!?!?!?!

😎

Seriously, though, the fact that you guys used a stock engine would prove your point more if that resulted in some sort of quantifiable success over using a modded engine. But given all the variables, that's pretty impossible to do.

If a stock engine was truly better for most of the top pros, they'd likely be running them and concentrating most of their mechanical efforts on reliability and longevity. But if you aren't actually racing inside the top 20 each and every weekend, stock could make a ton of sense, especially if the bike you are running has stock power delivery that matches your rider's preferences.

As for Barcia, I'd love to see him try a 250F at a standard SX. The start would be the only issue for him, I think. But if he's not holeshotting every main, the tradeoff may very well be worth it.

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11/10/2019 7:34 AM

Only 450 sx win for Andrew Short was on a stock honda engine if I remember correctly.

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11/10/2019 7:55 AM

Timo_2824 wrote:

Only 450 sx win for Andrew Short was on a stock honda engine if I remember correctly.

Piston, ECU, Hinson clutch, race fuel...can’t remember if they had a cam that week or not.

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11/10/2019 8:01 AM

Dirty Points wrote:

So to encapsulate the results for Paris SX:
Barcia: 1st with he says a stock motor and chassis on what we call the "blue pig".
Savatgy: 2nd running a stock motor with exhaust and suspension bits on the bike we say is too outdated.
Friese: 3rd with an off-the-dealer-floor vanilla Honda.

And then there are all of us Vital goofballs worrying about whether engine mounts, or ti footpegs, or factory editions will make the difference at the local track.

philG wrote:

But this is what makes good riders great, the abilty to make a bike work. Anyone who knows anything knows that it isnt all about horsepower, once you get up to bigger bikes, which is all about getting what you have , to the ground. I have done eniugh development over the years to know that usable power is what its all about, because that transmits to repeatable lap time, and in our case, tyre life. Pourcel was always one for leaving the motor alone, and using what it had, the trouble with factory teams is that because they can change everything, they feel they have to..
Barcia needs to sort his shit out and fast, because Yamaha need results, AP has been a disappointment, i expected more based on his 250 form , injury hasnt helped , but i think they are both up at the end of 2020.

Their damn Brits: telling it like it is and forcing my agreement.

Tho, I'd add this...I'm not as harsh on my "7" judgements. I'm of the mindset that he's still got time to get the 450 results he wants.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

11/10/2019 8:01 AM

Timo_2824 wrote:

Only 450 sx win for Andrew Short was on a stock honda engine if I remember correctly.

ML512 wrote:

Piston, ECU, Hinson clutch, race fuel...can’t remember if they had a cam that week or not.

Transmission?

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

11/10/2019 8:06 AM

Timo_2824 wrote:

Only 450 sx win for Andrew Short was on a stock honda engine if I remember correctly.

ML512 wrote:

Piston, ECU, Hinson clutch, race fuel...can’t remember if they had a cam that week or not.

TeamGreen wrote:

Transmission?

Did he have it by that week or was that after? I do remember the pegs...

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11/10/2019 8:14 AM

ML512 wrote:

Piston, ECU, Hinson clutch, race fuel...can’t remember if they had a cam that week or not.

TeamGreen wrote:

Transmission?

ML512 wrote:

Did he have it by that week or was that after? I do remember the pegs...

I'm thinking he had the gear-set and most of the the good stuff "between the cases" from the Honda race program.

As you recall, from your hinting...the following year he really was on a -STOCK- bike and some of us...especially a certain Gothic Guy...scrambled to get him what few works chassis components we could for him. That year, 2013?, he had a bit of a challenge getting the gearing right at the first few SXs due to being so accustomed to the RCF gears/motor. That's the year he paid his own way into the SX season and I believe it was Mike K who threw in a rig and some personnel.

Good times.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

11/10/2019 8:33 AM

I wish Barcia was more relaxed like this in all of his interviews.

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