Bad Block Pass Criteria

tarnz
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Edited Date/Time 1/21/2020 6:55pm
Among other possibilities:

- other rider gets hurt
- other rider’s bike receives “significant “ damage.

If you do either of those, you might’ve performed a bad block pass, worthy of a penalty that would prevent future occurrence. Losing one position seems most reasonable since pass is attempted in order to gain a position.

Interested in others thoughts on this. In order to have an opinion worth sharing on this, you have to lay aside what you think of this most recent incident and think of this apart from that.
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aees
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1/21/2020 4:57am
I agree they should move in that direction to get a more differentiated and clear policy. Hockey has for example visible blood = harder penalty.

Ferrandis ended craigh podium chances for 2020.

That's like getting $50 fine for putting someone in a wheelchair for the rest of their life. No proportion at all. Instead, we leave it to the rider to "owe" ferrandis a hit. It like being back to 1200 century.
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kongols
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1/21/2020 5:06am
aees wrote:
I agree they should move in that direction to get a more differentiated and clear policy. Hockey has for example visible blood = harder penalty. Ferrandis...
I agree they should move in that direction to get a more differentiated and clear policy. Hockey has for example visible blood = harder penalty.

Ferrandis ended craigh podium chances for 2020.

That's like getting $50 fine for putting someone in a wheelchair for the rest of their life. No proportion at all. Instead, we leave it to the rider to "owe" ferrandis a hit. It like being back to 1200 century.
What did you mean by "Ferrandis ended craigh podium chances for 2020"?
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aees
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1/21/2020 5:24am
aees wrote:
I agree they should move in that direction to get a more differentiated and clear policy. Hockey has for example visible blood = harder penalty. Ferrandis...
I agree they should move in that direction to get a more differentiated and clear policy. Hockey has for example visible blood = harder penalty.

Ferrandis ended craigh podium chances for 2020.

That's like getting $50 fine for putting someone in a wheelchair for the rest of their life. No proportion at all. Instead, we leave it to the rider to "owe" ferrandis a hit. It like being back to 1200 century.
kongols wrote:
What did you mean by "Ferrandis ended craigh podium chances for 2020"?
20 points lost. He is pretty much out of getting a overall podium. He would have been 5-6points behind 3rd place if ferrandis had not ended his night.
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The Shop

kb228
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1/21/2020 5:45am
Tbones or if you both crash pretty much determine bad passes that could be considered penalty worthy.

Marv on tomac was bad, friese on peick was bad, dylan on craig was bad.

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Ray_MXS
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1/21/2020 5:48am
The first criteria must be to actually block something. In this particular event Ferrandis didn't block anything, he rammed in to the side of Craig.
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aees
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1/21/2020 5:53am
Ray_MXS wrote:
The first criteria must be to actually block something. In this particular event Ferrandis didn't block anything, he rammed in to the side of Craig.
He blocked craigh from moving forward safely on the path craigh intended, and he he passed him (slightly later).

Play with words.
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bh84
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1/21/2020 6:24am
Ray_MXS wrote:
The first criteria must be to actually block something. In this particular event Ferrandis didn't block anything, he rammed in to the side of Craig.
Rule 2635.7

Driving into the side of another rider with no intention of making the corner at all shall be considered a violation of the "Don't be a dickhead" rule as outlined above. Riders in violation of this rule will receive no real punishment because we really don't have a clue what we're doing.
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Zaugg
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1/21/2020 6:26am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2020 6:29am
How about these options:

Contact - Rider does not go down and you both ride away= No Penalty
Contact - Rider goes down and you ride away= No Penalty
Contact - Results in both of you going down= Penalty (Docked two spots)
Contact - Rider goes down and is injured = Penalty (Race DQ+probation)
Contact - Results in both of you going down and other rider is injured = Penalty (DQ+2 race suspension + probation)

Any contact should be under investigation.
You also have A-Stars medical unit to confirm injury. (Injury would be something sustained preventing you from racing later that night - even it is the main. If you couldn't race a theoretical next race, that's an injury)
If you do significant damage to someone's bike - this will be something to investigate but not an automatic penalty. (Possible 1 spot penalty or last gate pick at next race regardless of your qualifying spot.)

I don't agree with assessing position penalties based on how many spots you gained or the other guy lost. Make it an across the board position penalty so everyone knows up front.
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Rhody
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1/21/2020 6:48am
Craig's bike had brakes didn't it? If he is not on the hammer, Dylan washes out in front of him, he wheelies over Dylan and his bike and goes on to victory. Situational awareness goes a long way.
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bh84
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1/21/2020 7:00am
Rhody wrote:
Craig's bike had brakes didn't it? If he is not on the hammer, Dylan washes out in front of him, he wheelies over Dylan and his...
Craig's bike had brakes didn't it? If he is not on the hammer, Dylan washes out in front of him, he wheelies over Dylan and his bike and goes on to victory. Situational awareness goes a long way.
Are you all there mentally? I only ask because I don't want to go off on you for being that stupid if there's a medical reason for it.
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davis224
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1/21/2020 7:12am
Craig stayed up on this. So it was a clean block pass?
-MAVERICK-
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1/21/2020 7:14am
davis224 wrote:
Craig stayed up on this. So it was a clean block pass? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/01/21/399426/s1200_Screenshot_20200121_090810_Instagram.jpg[/img]
Craig stayed up on this. So it was a clean block pass?
1/21/2020 7:41am
For a block pass to be a BAD in AMA Supercross or Motocross the rider performing the block pass must be a NON-american.
Osborne built his career based on these kinds of moves - what did he get? Applause.
People wonder why the sport is circling the drain?? Because it's main fan base are pieces of shit homer losers.
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1/21/2020 8:21am
Mr. Knobby wrote:
For a block pass to be a BAD in AMA Supercross or Motocross the rider performing the block pass must be a NON-american. Osborne built his...
For a block pass to be a BAD in AMA Supercross or Motocross the rider performing the block pass must be a NON-american.
Osborne built his career based on these kinds of moves - what did he get? Applause.
People wonder why the sport is circling the drain?? Because it's main fan base are pieces of shit homer losers.


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Falcon
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1/21/2020 10:07am
I'm on board with a clear-cut rule. Right now I'm pretty sure the rule states "at the discretion of AMA officials." That's too vague.
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Regis
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1/21/2020 4:34pm
Rule 1 - it’s not a block pass if you both crash.
tarnz
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1/21/2020 5:05pm
Regis wrote:
Rule 1 - it’s not a block pass if you both crash.


A block pass is when one rider tries to block the path of another, causing them to slow up, to get passed them. Contact is sometimes made when performing a block pass. When contact is made, the likelihood of at least one of the riders crashing goes up.
Zacka 161
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1/21/2020 5:13pm
Zaugg wrote:
How about these options: Contact - Rider does not go down and you both ride away= No Penalty Contact - Rider goes down and you ride...
How about these options:

Contact - Rider does not go down and you both ride away= No Penalty
Contact - Rider goes down and you ride away= No Penalty
Contact - Results in both of you going down= Penalty (Docked two spots)
Contact - Rider goes down and is injured = Penalty (Race DQ+probation)
Contact - Results in both of you going down and other rider is injured = Penalty (DQ+2 race suspension + probation)

Any contact should be under investigation.
You also have A-Stars medical unit to confirm injury. (Injury would be something sustained preventing you from racing later that night - even it is the main. If you couldn't race a theoretical next race, that's an injury)
If you do significant damage to someone's bike - this will be something to investigate but not an automatic penalty. (Possible 1 spot penalty or last gate pick at next race regardless of your qualifying spot.)

I don't agree with assessing position penalties based on how many spots you gained or the other guy lost. Make it an across the board position penalty so everyone knows up front.
It’s so hard to judge, someone could fall the wrong in a slow speed crash and break a collarbone, another rider could high side at warp speed and come out fine.

Injury and who crashes is such a flawed system.

I think intention needs to come into, based on a judgement call on immediately preceding behaviour or a ‘beef’.

I think poor judgement result in causing an accident (in DF case) should come into it.

Repeated dangerous riding (cross jumping etc)

Also this question - would they have made the corner without making contact? If the answer is no then that’s an instant penalty

hamncheeze
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1/21/2020 5:20pm
Man, I forgot about how ugly that hit on A-Mart was from Christian Craig. Honestly, I was never a fan of CC and that move at the time made me really dislike him. And I think that was the year he was riding East and being coached by DV, and he was doing shitty. I always thought a big part of him punting A-Mart in practice was just out of frustration for how bad he was riding. I remember he was on Pulp in the pre-season and Matthes was fluffing him (like all the "media" people do with CC) and then he was just choking at the races that year.
tarnz
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1/21/2020 6:55pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
It’s so hard to judge, someone could fall the wrong in a slow speed crash and break a collarbone, another rider could high side at warp...
It’s so hard to judge, someone could fall the wrong in a slow speed crash and break a collarbone, another rider could high side at warp speed and come out fine.

Injury and who crashes is such a flawed system.

I think intention needs to come into, based on a judgement call on immediately preceding behaviour or a ‘beef’.

I think poor judgement result in causing an accident (in DF case) should come into it.

Repeated dangerous riding (cross jumping etc)

Also this question - would they have made the corner without making contact? If the answer is no then that’s an instant penalty

Very good points. Yea, I feel JS7 was one of those riders who could rag doll and not be terribly hurt. It seems rare for a block pass, not matter how aggressive, to result in an injury that would take a rider out of the race though.

Looking at intention and possible beef causing the incident makes sense.

That’s a good question to ask, too. I like.

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