B Mains

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1/23/2018 5:43 AM

So Weigant was on the Pulp show last night and estimated that with the triple crown format, there was 16 minutes LESS racing. I haven't done the math myself, but I'll take his word for it...

Give the next 20 guys outside the ones who qualified for the triple crown a B-main. One B-main for the 250s between the 1st and 2nd main events and one for the 450s between the 2nd and 3rd main events. Make them 7 minutes for 250s and 9 minutes for 450s. There's your 16 minutes of racing back and they're short enough to still do track maintenance if needed. Do it Feld.

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1/23/2018 5:50 AM

No for me. I don't want more slow guys, more fast guys is great, make the 2nd and 3rd moto longer.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

1/23/2018 5:51 AM

It would definitely be much needed exposure for the riders (and their sponsors) who need it the most. Plus let's face it, the "casual fan" might even be more entertained by watching these guys wad up and pull aggressive AX style passes than they would be by watching the top riders hitting lines smoothly with little drama that actually appeals to said "casual fan"

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Positively, absolutely 110% obsessed with anything MOTO.

1/23/2018 5:52 AM

90% of the fans dont give a shit about people outside the top 15. I dont think they need a race for their own points. Step up and make the mains or go home

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

1/23/2018 5:53 AM

Someone needs to check the math, because i'm listening now and they've already done it three times!

Interesting, Kenny said it wasn't a good schedule for the riders. There has to be some middle ground for the riders and for the fans...

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Cheers, Crush
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1/23/2018 6:04 AM

F150Motocrosser wrote:

It would definitely be much needed exposure for the riders (and their sponsors) who need it the most. Plus let's face it, the "casual fan" might even be more entertained by watching these guys wad up and pull aggressive AX style passes than they would be by watching the top riders hitting lines smoothly with little drama that actually appeals to said "casual fan"

That's where I'm at on this. Sometimes the LCQ's are the most exciting races of the night. Especially in the 250 class with the "kids" and ones coming up through the ranks. Plus, it's more RACING we get to watch. It's either that or you watch more segments that you'd rather sleep through.

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1/23/2018 6:07 AM

Not a fan of the 'B Mains' idea but maybe instead of 3 different main events you have 2 and make them longer maybe 18 +1lap for 450 and maybe 15+lap for 250.

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1/23/2018 6:13 AM

Keep everything the same. Add a 2-stroke class.

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1/23/2018 6:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 6:15 AM

Okay I sat down and did the math myself.

Regular Night
250 heat 1 - 6 minutes +1 lap
250 heat 2 - 6 minutes +1 lap
450 heat 1 - 6 minutes +1 lap
450 heat 2 - 6 minutes +1 lap
250 LCQ - 5 minutes +1 lap
450 LCQ - 5 minutes +1 lap
250 main - 15 minutes +1 lap
450 main - 20 minutes +1 lap
69 Total minutes of racing +8 laps

Triple Crown
250 main 1 - 6 minutes +1 lap
450 main 1 - 8 minutes +1 lap
250 main 2 - 10 minutes +1 lap
450 main 2 - 12 minutes +1 lap
250 main 3 - 12 minutes +1 lap
450 main 3 - 15 minutes +1 lap
63 Total minutes of racing +6 laps

So there is indeed 6 minutes less racing and 2 less laps (take that how you want), not 16 minutes, with the triple crown. Just so we all are on the same page.

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1/23/2018 7:19 AM

DV said on twitter Saturday night that they need to stick with the regular format but instead of 1 main event just have two like in motocross. 250s run two 12 +1 and 450s run two 15+1

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1/23/2018 8:00 PM

Sorry, but B mains is just a silly idea. The entire idea of six total Main events is more stars on the track. Not many stars in a B Main, They just need to tighten up the program and offer more real analysis of the racers and racing.

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1/23/2018 8:05 PM

I think the first 2 motos should be longer

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1/23/2018 8:14 PM

Acidreamer wrote:

90% of the fans dont give a shit about people outside the top 15. I dont think they need a race for their own points. Step up and make the mains or go home

This.

Everyone keeps complaining that there was less racing. But there were more races that actually mattered. 6 of them.

I cannot believe so many ppl care about fucking semis & lcq’s and johnny privateer.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

1/23/2018 8:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 8:21 PM

greenmx5 wrote:

Okay I sat down and did the math myself.

Regular Night
250 heat 1 - 6 minutes +1 lap
250 heat 2 - 6 minutes +1 lap
450 heat 1 - 6 minutes +1 lap
450 heat 2 - 6 minutes +1 lap
250 LCQ - 5 minutes +1 lap
450 LCQ - 5 minutes +1 lap
250 main - 15 minutes +1 lap
450 main - 20 minutes +1 lap
69 Total minutes of racing +8 laps

Triple Crown
250 main 1 - 6 minutes +1 lap
450 main 1 - 8 minutes +1 lap
250 main 2 - 10 minutes +1 lap
450 main 2 - 12 minutes +1 lap
250 main 3 - 12 minutes +1 lap
450 main 3 - 15 minutes +1 lap
63 Total minutes of racing +6 laps

So there is indeed 6 minutes less racing and 2 less laps (take that how you want), not 16 minutes, with the triple crown. Just so we all are on the same page.

One of those has about 20 minutes of racing that matters (first 10 minutes of each main).

The other has 60+ minutes of racing that matters (all 6 mains).

This shouldnt even be debated on which is more bang for our buck.

A fucking “B” main. One more race that doesnt mean shit to the championship.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

1/23/2018 8:35 PM

I thought he came back to say there was only 6 minutes less?

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1/23/2018 8:37 PM

Limit who can race in the LCQ (B-main). Qualifying times 19-40, but only if they were within 110% if the fastest qualifier. 450s would have cut off after 33rd and 250s after 35th. If riders can't maintain a minimum lap time, they are just in the way, and a danger to the other riders on track.

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1/23/2018 8:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 8:57 PM

Why are these format changes/experiments happening in the first place? I’m not talking about our opinions of why we think they’re happening but what is Feld hoping to accomplish? Minus assumptions and speculation, is there any concrete information (i.e. press releases etc.) where that has been communicated? Is it to increase viewers? Is it to appeal to the hard core fans? Is it to put more butts in the seats? Until then, people are trying to find solutions to an unknown question in a time of instant on and off attention spans.

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much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





1/23/2018 9:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 9:06 PM

Donovan759 wrote:

Keep everything the same. Add a 2-stroke class.

That’s even less relevant than a B Main.

Participant ribbons, too?

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1/23/2018 9:27 PM

Chris_Cooksey wrote:

Sorry, but B mains is just a silly idea. The entire idea of six total Main events is more stars on the track. Not many stars in a B Main, They just need to tighten up the program and offer more real analysis of the racers and racing.

Those of you against B mains are missing the whole point. You CAN'T tighten up the program. Riders need time to rest between motos (and mechanics need time to prep bikes and track crews need time to work on the track). Therefore, how do you fill the downtime? A shitload of commercials/stupid ass segments or some more racing? Hmmmm whistling

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1/23/2018 9:47 PM

bball35 wrote:

DV said on twitter Saturday night that they need to stick with the regular format but instead of 1 main event just have two like in motocross. 250s run two 12 +1 and 450s run two 15+1

It is kinda funny that that wasn't their first step.

Maybe they didn't want to copy the "summer-series"!

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Cheers, Crush
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1/23/2018 10:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 10:17 PM

The guy are supposed to be PRO, and it's only for 3 rounds. Put them to the test. Make it 15-15-15 for both classes. I'm not sure why 250 guys get treated like they're 10 years old. 6 minutes? That was lame. I want to see someone sucking wind besides Christian Craig. That's barely enough time to get people in the stands to get another hot dog and a warm $9 dome foam.

Get rid of the 50cc kids and bring in Superminis.

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1/23/2018 10:35 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

Those of you against B mains are missing the whole point. You CAN'T tighten up the program. Riders need time to rest between motos (and mechanics need time to prep bikes and track crews need time to work on the track). Therefore, how do you fill the downtime? A shitload of commercials/stupid ass segments or some more racing? Hmmmm whistling

Yes, you can tighten the program.

The rest is when the other class is racing.

The mechanics got plenty of time to “change parts”. It’s not like they’re actual tuners.

Track prep is the only thing that cannot be substituted. And while that is going on, you cant add a B main, a C main, a Jesse only main, or a KTM 50cc race. It’s concession stand time.

If I was producing the event, I’d run 3 motos (250-450-250), then have a 15min “halftime” for track prep and commentary/pit interviews/etc. Then the final 3 (450-250-450). All live. Minimal downtime. A 2 hour live broadcast is what Americans have the attention span for. And it’s good production value anyways.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

1/23/2018 10:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 10:56 PM

Chris_Cooksey wrote:

Sorry, but B mains is just a silly idea. The entire idea of six total Main events is more stars on the track. Not many stars in a B Main, They just need to tighten up the program and offer more real analysis of the racers and racing.

tcallahan707 wrote:

Those of you against B mains are missing the whole point. You CAN'T tighten up the program. Riders need time to rest between motos (and mechanics need time to prep bikes and track crews need time to work on the track). Therefore, how do you fill the downtime? A shitload of commercials/stupid ass segments or some more racing? Hmmmm whistling

Jabroni wrote:

Yes, you can tighten the program.

The rest is when the other class is racing.

The mechanics got plenty of time to “change parts”. It’s not like they’re actual tuners.

Track prep is the only thing that cannot be substituted. And while that is going on, you cant add a B main, a C main, a Jesse only main, or a KTM 50cc race. It’s concession stand time.

If I was producing the event, I’d run 3 motos (250-450-250), then have a 15min “halftime” for track prep and commentary/pit interviews/etc. Then the final 3 (450-250-450). All live. Minimal downtime. A 2 hour live broadcast is what Americans have the attention span for. And it’s good production value anyways.

It’s a good idea in theory but I really don’t think one race (15 mins or less) is enough time. The intensity is so high in SX. Maybe a couple dudes who are freaks can handle it but most guys would be worthless by the last motos. The racing would suffer and there would be more mistakes/injuries. These guys even said they wouldn’t want to do last weekend’s format very often due to how intense it was.

And is it really fair to the parts changer? Clutches and wheels, plus anything potentially bent like bars and subframes. That would suck if a guy couldn’t make it back for something simple or routine.

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1/23/2018 11:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 11:16 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

It’s a good idea in theory but I really don’t think one race (15 mins or less) is enough time. The intensity is so high in SX. Maybe a couple dudes who are freaks can handle it but most guys would be worthless by the last motos. The racing would suffer and there would be more mistakes/injuries. These guys even said they wouldn’t want to do last weekend’s format very often due to how intense it was.

And is it really fair to the parts changer? Clutches and wheels, plus anything potentially bent like bars and subframes. That would suck if a guy couldn’t make it back for something simple or routine.

The guys who can handle it are not freaks. They’re simply the few “pros” who train as if they’re professionals athletes.

Most of the field doesn’t.

More mistakes/injuries isn’t a good thing. The tracks need to get easier anyways. But in my ideal scenario there wouldnt be privateers either. Teams would demand revenue sharing and/or increased media coverage. Which would result in better pay / incentive for the “weaker” riders to train for 3 fifteen minute motos. As someone who has seen how professionals train in a variety of sports, those in the MX/SX field outside the top 3 are pretty embarrassing. They mostly live off of talent and the fact that the sport has such a small talent pool to pull from.

As for the parts changer, it’s plenty fair. 15 minutes is a lifetime for those guys to get work done.

If ya want the sport to have more money, you gotta improve the product. Most mechanics in the sport are grossly underpaid/exploited. That’s why there is so much turnover by even some of the elite teams. I think the parts changers should welcome anything that would allow them to make more money. Even if that means they have to actually work.

|

Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

1/24/2018 2:19 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2018 2:21 AM

Jabroni wrote:

Yes, you can tighten the program.

The rest is when the other class is racing.

The mechanics got plenty of time to “change parts”. It’s not like they’re actual tuners.

Track prep is the only thing that cannot be substituted. And while that is going on, you cant add a B main, a C main, a Jesse only main, or a KTM 50cc race. It’s concession stand time.

If I was producing the event, I’d run 3 motos (250-450-250), then have a 15min “halftime” for track prep and commentary/pit interviews/etc. Then the final 3 (450-250-450). All live. Minimal downtime. A 2 hour live broadcast is what Americans have the attention span for. And it’s good production value anyways.

tcallahan707 wrote:

It’s a good idea in theory but I really don’t think one race (15 mins or less) is enough time. The intensity is so high in SX. Maybe a couple dudes who are freaks can handle it but most guys would be worthless by the last motos. The racing would suffer and there would be more mistakes/injuries. These guys even said they wouldn’t want to do last weekend’s format very often due to how intense it was.

And is it really fair to the parts changer? Clutches and wheels, plus anything potentially bent like bars and subframes. That would suck if a guy couldn’t make it back for something simple or routine.

Jabroni wrote:

The guys who can handle it are not freaks. They’re simply the few “pros” who train as if they’re professionals athletes.

Most of the field doesn’t.

More mistakes/injuries isn’t a good thing. The tracks need to get easier anyways. But in my ideal scenario there wouldnt be privateers either. Teams would demand revenue sharing and/or increased media coverage. Which would result in better pay / incentive for the “weaker” riders to train for 3 fifteen minute motos. As someone who has seen how professionals train in a variety of sports, those in the MX/SX field outside the top 3 are pretty embarrassing. They mostly live off of talent and the fact that the sport has such a small talent pool to pull from.

As for the parts changer, it’s plenty fair. 15 minutes is a lifetime for those guys to get work done.

If ya want the sport to have more money, you gotta improve the product. Most mechanics in the sport are grossly underpaid/exploited. That’s why there is so much turnover by even some of the elite teams. I think the parts changers should welcome anything that would allow them to make more money. Even if that means they have to actually work.

I will give you credit as it appears you've put a lot of thought into this. I simply disagree and feel that you don't give these guys enough credit. In fact, it's pretty disrespectful to most of the field to say only a few actually train like professional athletes.

I also disagree that the tracks should be easier. I don't want a choo choo train of a race every weekend with 15 guys within the same second.

I agree that mechanics are underpaid but your comments don't make sense. Are they underpaid or are they not doing work? I also haven't seen the turnover that you are referring too. These guys work longs hours for years on end with very few opportunities to get promoted.

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1/24/2018 2:29 AM

Jabroni wrote:

The guys who can handle it are not freaks. They’re simply the few “pros” who train as if they’re professionals athletes.

Most of the field doesn’t.

More mistakes/injuries isn’t a good thing. The tracks need to get easier anyways. But in my ideal scenario there wouldnt be privateers either. Teams would demand revenue sharing and/or increased media coverage. Which would result in better pay / incentive for the “weaker” riders to train for 3 fifteen minute motos. As someone who has seen how professionals train in a variety of sports, those in the MX/SX field outside the top 3 are pretty embarrassing. They mostly live off of talent and the fact that the sport has such a small talent pool to pull from.

As for the parts changer, it’s plenty fair. 15 minutes is a lifetime for those guys to get work done.

If ya want the sport to have more money, you gotta improve the product. Most mechanics in the sport are grossly underpaid/exploited. That’s why there is so much turnover by even some of the elite teams. I think the parts changers should welcome anything that would allow them to make more money. Even if that means they have to actually work.

You’re trying a little too hard to play the part of a hardass in this thread and the other one about Wentland.

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1/24/2018 3:10 AM

Donovan759 wrote:

Keep everything the same. Add a 2-stroke class.

GuyB wrote:

That’s even less relevant than a B Main.

Participant ribbons, too?

I guess I just thought this made such little sense that I could throw whatever I wanted to at it and it would stick.

Participant ribbons are for pre k soccer teams and that’s about as far as that should go.

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1/24/2018 6:00 AM

B main. Guess the B would stand for beer. Cause that’s everyone be going to get when that shit came on laughing

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1/24/2018 6:59 AM

Jabroni wrote:

This.

Everyone keeps complaining that there was less racing. But there were more races that actually mattered. 6 of them.

I cannot believe so many ppl care about fucking semis & lcq’s and johnny privateer.

I'm with ya. To hell with B mains. I say they even need to cut the gate down to 10. Then the start wouldn't need to be as big. Which means maybe more actual race track. Less riders is less carnage on opening laps. Less lappers to ruin races. More of the fastest stars battling. Won't be as much about getting a good start. 11th thru 22nd hardly ever gets mentioned anyway.

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1/24/2018 7:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2018 7:17 AM

Acidreamer wrote:

90% of the fans dont give a shit about people outside the top 15. I dont think they need a race for their own points. Step up and make the mains or go home

Jabroni wrote:

This.

Everyone keeps complaining that there was less racing. But there were more races that actually mattered. 6 of them.

I cannot believe so many ppl care about fucking semis & lcq’s and johnny privateer.

sbarrington314 wrote:

I'm with ya. To hell with B mains. I say they even need to cut the gate down to 10. Then the start wouldn't need to be as big. Which means maybe more actual race track. Less riders is less carnage on opening laps. Less lappers to ruin races. More of the fastest stars battling. Won't be as much about getting a good start. 11th thru 22nd hardly ever gets mentioned anyway.

Do you guys realize that this kind of approach is what makes people not want to have a career in the sport? This is a good way to kill off the sport, having the top 5 guys mentioned each and every race while everyone else makes peanuts and never gets mentioned. Why would anyone want to take the risk to be out there risking their lives to make peanuts while the kid who had all the right connections growing up is making bank and they were just as talented? Every wonder why there's such a gap in speed between 1st and 20th? Because kids aren't getting into the sport and growing up with it like they used to. Parents aren't taking the risks to make their kid a career.

It's obvious a lot of you have never been on the other end of the stick trying to make a living in the sport. If you shit on the little guy long enough, participation rates will drop (and they already have drastically at the local levels), and soon the sport will fade away. Why? Because nobody is going to say "I think i'm going to go drop thousands of dollars into my kid in hopes they make it big in this sport." Nobody is going to risk their mortgage, personal business, and everything they've worked for to have a small chance at a career. It's gotten to the point already where the risk isn't worth the chance of reward. It's amazing that just as TV ratings are starting to go up for our sport, you guys want to kill it off.

All you guys want to sound like hard asses, but the reality is you just don't get it.

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