Average lap times 450/250

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1/27/2019 6:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 6:43 AM

Oakland Top ten 450's = 55.162
Oakland Top ten 250's = 55.566
Keep in mind these are the best and former champions in the 450 class and these lap times are that close with the 250's.

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1/27/2019 6:48 AM

peltier626 wrote:

Oakland Top ten 450's = 55.162
Oakland Top ten 250's = 55.566
Keep in mind these are the best and former champions in the 450 class and these lap times are that close with the 250's.

Keep in mind how much worse the track was.....it is not at all apples to apples.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

1/27/2019 6:55 AM

But but but, the track. But but but the moto length. But but but several top riders out of 450's.


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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

1/27/2019 7:21 AM

Could it be that in order to time everything on the track correctly, downside the jumps, etc, there is only so fast you can go no matter what size bike? Some track layouts allow the more powerful 450 to be a second or so faster, some tracks dont?

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1/27/2019 7:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 7:34 AM

I wonder what the lap times were when Johnny O smoked the 500s on a 125 at MXdN in what was it 1986? I wonder what the lap times were when RV smoked the 450s on a 250 at the MXdN?

Small bore motorcycles have to be ridden with more momentum through the corners... bigger motor doesn’t always mean faster lap times and smaller motor may mean higher momentum and greater speed which is why 250 riders need time to transition to the 450 before they do well.

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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

1/27/2019 8:35 AM

Faster bikes have to brake sooner.

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1/27/2019 8:42 AM

motofab36 wrote:

Could it be that in order to time everything on the track correctly, downside the jumps, etc, there is only so fast you can go no matter what size bike? Some track layouts allow the more powerful 450 to be a second or so faster, some tracks dont?

Exactly what I thought. No obstacle that couldn’t be cleared by either size bike. I was there last night and listened to the bikes close to the track in practice. It seemed the 450s almost idled over the same obstacles the 250s got over wide open. It was little things like wheelying into rollers before the triple that seemed to save time.

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1/27/2019 8:52 AM

And the big bikes go 5 minutes longer so you would have to imagine that the times might suffer some

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1/27/2019 8:53 AM

I bet I could throw a football over that mountain

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1/27/2019 8:53 AM

I am still a believer and wish they would do 250f's for the top guys as well. Seeing them push the bikes similar to the way 250 two strokes would be awesome.

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1/27/2019 8:55 AM

Zycki11 wrote:

I am still a believer and wish they would do 250f's for the top guys as well. Seeing them push the bikes similar to the way 250 two strokes would be awesome.

+1

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1/27/2019 4:59 PM

I think when we get to an east/west shootout when we have the fastest 250's racing they might be equal to or faster than the 450's.

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1/27/2019 5:44 PM

peltier626 wrote:

I think when we get to an east/west shootout when we have the fastest 250's racing they might be equal to or faster than the 450's.

History appears to be repeating itself.

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1/27/2019 6:23 PM

peltier626 wrote:

Oakland Top ten 450's = 55.162
Oakland Top ten 250's = 55.566
Keep in mind these are the best and former champions in the 450 class and these lap times are that close with the 250's.

This confuses people because theyre like well if lap times are the same then the 450s arent that big a deal. The thing is in a tight space like a supercross track 250s are plenty capable of running the tracks essentially as fast as they can be ridden. The thing with 450s is having to control that ridiculous power, the added weight, and the reciprocating mass makes it very demanding compared to 250s. Thats why with the same lap times the 450 is still the premier class.

The 250s are being wrung out to where your pushing the bike to set those laps, where the 450 its about taming the beast to be able to still get around quickly and carrying momentum. The 450 your using a quarter throttle and low gears controlling where the cannon fires you around the track.

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1/27/2019 7:00 PM

250s have been quicker on most SX tracks for years, they're the better SX bike you can see how nimble they're compared to the 450s.

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1/27/2019 7:09 PM

DrinkMoreWater wrote:

250s have been quicker on most SX tracks for years, they're the better SX bike you can see how nimble they're compared to the 450s.

They have not been "quicker on most SX tracks for years". Once in a while there will be the quicker odd lap time, or quicker overall average time. But, none of this takes into account for track conditions, nor does it take into account race length.

Hell, if you read the original example...the 450's were nearly a half second quicker, on a much rougher track, over an additional 5+ minutes of racing. Compare the whoop sections between the 250 and 450 main. Most of us would struggle to even roll through it in the latter stages of the 450 main.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....