Average lap times 250/450-250's faster

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1/6/2019 5:20 PM

Top ten average lap times 450's = 103.8896
Top ten average lap times 250's = 103.3817
250's were faster, granted it was raining. We'll see how next week compares.

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1/6/2019 5:38 PM

pretty sure conditions were a little worse in the 450 main, but yeah lets see what the next race brings!

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1/6/2019 8:03 PM

peltier626 wrote:

Top ten average lap times 450's = 103.8896
Top ten average lap times 250's = 103.3817
250's were faster, granted it was raining. We'll see how next week compares.

its not uncommon for 250's to put in faster times. a 250 has a ton of power these days and is lighter and can corner faster

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"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti

1/6/2019 8:06 PM

The track conditions were different.

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1/6/2019 8:27 PM

In the heat races JB got 59.1 and AC got a 59.2 Seems pretty close and close most races.

What is curious is the 450 class is the premier class with the premier riders.

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1/6/2019 8:32 PM

Conditions were pretty sloppy by the end of the 450's bringing down the lap times. I'm not surprised AC runs similar lap times as the 450's he's one of the only 250 riders to do the same sequence in the rhythm sections

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1/6/2019 8:38 PM

Pretty much what the guy's mentioned above. Indoors , not un-common for 250's to be a bit faster. Track was a little more beat up and more wet in the 450 main as well.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

1/6/2019 8:52 PM

If argument is that 450’s are unnecessary I like this thread. If argument is that 250 riders are faster I don’t like this thread

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1/6/2019 8:53 PM

A stock 450 is probably a lot closer to a factory 450 than a stock250 to a factory 250

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1/6/2019 8:54 PM

Interesting stat . But Imo its supposed to be who is fastest on that particular bike. And they shouldn't be raced together ever.
Take the old 500cc 2 stroke class
Everyone knew that the 250 2 strokes where faster but the point was who can tame the beast the best, there for who can go the fastest and win on a 500cc 2 stroke.
Same thing now but letting any other CC bike in will eventually bite.

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1/7/2019 4:32 AM

Yea on an sx track this is normal. The premier class is the premier because all the champions move up there plus a heavier bike with more power going the same speed or even slower is much harder to ride from the weight and how the power upsets the chassis plus rotational mass. So even if they have the same lap times its harder to put those down on a 450 on an sx track.

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1/7/2019 5:47 AM

It's pretty obvious that their is more horsepower than can be effectively used on the SX tracks.
Outdoors it's still pretty close to the same thing.
Watch a good 125 race on youtube either indoors or outdoors and you'll see some real racing.
Rider skill in keeping up momentum really makes a difference.
Whenever a rider get's parked in a corner, it takes quite some time to get back in the groove.
I realize that those days are long gone, but having more horsepower simply made the events less interesting.
If the 450 idea was a sound idea, then why didn't the AMA sanction 600 CC 4 strokes?

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1/7/2019 8:53 AM

Tarz483 wrote:

Interesting stat . But Imo its supposed to be who is fastest on that particular bike. And they shouldn't be raced together ever.
Take the old 500cc 2 stroke class
Everyone knew that the 250 2 strokes where faster but the point was who can tame the beast the best, there for who can go the fastest and win on a 500cc 2 stroke.
Same thing now but letting any other CC bike in will eventually bite.

I've no problem with them racing 250's and 450's together and can find no good reason why they shouldn't race together. If I want to see who can tame the wild "beasts" of motorcycling I can watch hillclimb or drag racing. If some think we need some additional machismo (its already got plenty) then why not open up the "premier" class for turbocharged bikes, 500cc two strokes, twin cylinders, etc. and really see "who's the man".

MX/SX is still a motorsport and as such I also want to see what machine allows a guy to complete the race in the shortest amount of time. At many races today I believe that's a 250.

My way of thinking is that maybe the sport only needs a two stroke class and a four stroke class. While I'd really like to see all different sorts of machines race together regardless of displacement or engine type, the manufacturer's that control the rules wouldn't ever allow it.

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1/7/2019 10:05 AM

Makes me wonder, how fast would the lap times of the top 450 guys be if they rode factory 250s?
Might get killed on the starts. Why isn't there a KTM 350 out there?

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1/7/2019 10:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/7/2019 10:12 AM

mxrose3 wrote:

pretty sure conditions were a little worse in the 450 main, but yeah lets see what the next race brings!

For sure worse in the 450 main. Also, four laps longer, which would also affect the average.

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1/7/2019 10:15 AM

GuyB wrote:

For sure worse in the 450 main. Also, four laps longer, which would also affect the average.

I averaged the fastest lap per top ten rider.

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1/7/2019 10:19 AM

I also averaged some outdoors last season and the most surprising was the 250's were faster than the 450's at southwick. Even the second moto of the 250's were faster than the first moto of the 450's considering track deterioration.

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1/7/2019 10:25 AM

peltier626 wrote:

I averaged the fastest lap per top ten rider.

Gotcha.

Just to give you guys a "from the infield" observation on how it changed over time due to the rain...

Before the 250 main while standing on the start straight, it wasn't too sloppy, but it was at the point where as you'd walk, every step would add another layer of mud on the bottom of your shoes. But the end of the 450 main, it was just starting to get where there was a lot of standing water in the low spots.

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1/7/2019 10:26 AM

Tarz483 wrote:

Interesting stat . But Imo its supposed to be who is fastest on that particular bike. And they shouldn't be raced together ever.
Take the old 500cc 2 stroke class
Everyone knew that the 250 2 strokes where faster but the point was who can tame the beast the best, there for who can go the fastest and win on a 500cc 2 stroke.
Same thing now but letting any other CC bike in will eventually bite.

OldYZRider1 wrote:

I've no problem with them racing 250's and 450's together and can find no good reason why they shouldn't race together. If I want to see who can tame the wild "beasts" of motorcycling I can watch hillclimb or drag racing. If some think we need some additional machismo (its already got plenty) then why not open up the "premier" class for turbocharged bikes, 500cc two strokes, twin cylinders, etc. and really see "who's the man".

MX/SX is still a motorsport and as such I also want to see what machine allows a guy to complete the race in the shortest amount of time. At many races today I believe that's a 250.

My way of thinking is that maybe the sport only needs a two stroke class and a four stroke class. While I'd really like to see all different sorts of machines race together regardless of displacement or engine type, the manufacturer's that control the rules wouldn't ever allow it.

I would have no problem with
Them all being on 250's
But i personally dont like seeing different bikes race each other,
If it was up to me i would have everyone on as equal of bikes as possible, so using a different motor size is going away from what i would want personally.
I dont care if its all on 125 2 strokes or all on 450's
Just all the same is good.
Thats just my take if you see it differently thats ok to.

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1/7/2019 11:06 AM

Ditch the 450s, add 125s, make 250/250F the premier class.

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