Aussie Nationals Live

-MAVERICK-
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Location
Ontario CA
Fantasy
3682nd
5/20/2018 9:25am Edited Date/Time 5/20/2018 9:26am
Thanks for the info. It's interesting to see how different motocross races/series are run in different parts of the world.

I know this thread is about the Australian series but what about Sweden, Ireland, Russia, etc. Guys from those country feel free to chime in. Are people able to watch those series at all?

I know we can watch the US, MXGP, Canadian, Australian and South African series via stream. Just curious if other countries provide that as well or if the series are too small for them to make the effort.

brycepdh
Posts
413
Joined
11/3/2017
Location
Tasmania AU
5/20/2018 9:59am
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i am from Tasmania we do get the total fire bans but no facility here gets shut down because of that.

We roll on throughout the summer and practice on a dusty track and just live with it. We do water and prep occasionally to keep the dust settled and especially when we get a large dose of rain before/near an event we take advantage of that and rip the track up as it will retain moisture deep down for some time. My local has its own irrigation system so we don't relay on people to consistently water the track.

One thing I will add is that largely in America because of the scale the sport is over there people run them tracks as a business and live of that. The Australian mx scene depends on volunteers that run all the little clubs that keeps the sport going. I'm not saying America don't have that but its much easier to gain access to a better facility because of that. I know Australia has a couple of facilities like this and would like to make the trip over and ride them tracks.

I know its tough here and in Tasmania especially since my dad in the complex coordinator and used to be president of my local. This club depends on half of a dozen people to keep the place going and they would spend all their time after their jobs in the day to keep the club going. I just would like to thank all the people that put in countless amount of hours to keep the club running and they don't have to do it, it's easy to turn up to race and go home and without the volunteers we won't have a track to go to race and practice at. Keen to see the direction of my local is heading in as we are hosting the Australian Junior MX Nationals for the first time since 2004.
PJRAUS
Posts
1532
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
5/20/2018 3:52pm
brycepdh wrote:
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i...
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i am from Tasmania we do get the total fire bans but no facility here gets shut down because of that.

We roll on throughout the summer and practice on a dusty track and just live with it. We do water and prep occasionally to keep the dust settled and especially when we get a large dose of rain before/near an event we take advantage of that and rip the track up as it will retain moisture deep down for some time. My local has its own irrigation system so we don't relay on people to consistently water the track.

One thing I will add is that largely in America because of the scale the sport is over there people run them tracks as a business and live of that. The Australian mx scene depends on volunteers that run all the little clubs that keeps the sport going. I'm not saying America don't have that but its much easier to gain access to a better facility because of that. I know Australia has a couple of facilities like this and would like to make the trip over and ride them tracks.

I know its tough here and in Tasmania especially since my dad in the complex coordinator and used to be president of my local. This club depends on half of a dozen people to keep the place going and they would spend all their time after their jobs in the day to keep the club going. I just would like to thank all the people that put in countless amount of hours to keep the club running and they don't have to do it, it's easy to turn up to race and go home and without the volunteers we won't have a track to go to race and practice at. Keen to see the direction of my local is heading in as we are hosting the Australian Junior MX Nationals for the first time since 2004.
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs are more or less all the same, just a hand full of diehards that keep them alive and a few fringe dwellers that always think they know how to do things better, but actually do little to help..
It's worthwhile taking notice of what's going on in the practice track scene. In Victoria we have ride park, Kruisic's, Park 4 and another one in central vic who's name I can't remember. There will be another one opening very soon near Glenrowan, so that's 5 privately operated Moto facilities all with watered and prepped main tracks.
The operators of these facilities run on a skeleton staff and operate to make a profit. They have no involvement with MA, are not subject to any of MA's rules and regulations. Value for money , track time , track preparation and ease of participation totally blow away anything a club can offer....What's holding clubs back? MA! End of story in my opinion.
If the ride parks should decide to start holding races.....I for one would never bother going to any MA involved races again...

I don't know what the answer is for clubs other than perhaps for clubs to find a way to lease out their facilities to private operators to run as a profit making business . What do clubs make out of a practice day? I'm guessing it's next to nothing! What do clubs make out of an average race day? I keep hearing that it's difficult for them to even break even...why? MA takes the lot....
MA will actually punish a club if it finds out that their track has been ridden on without the club applying for a practice day permit and providing the required officials and flaggers....The club cannot even change anything about the design of the track without having to re register their track , this includes having it re inspected for compliance by an MA official and all the exorbitant fees that go with all that bs...

I went to Park 4 in Melbourne on a Thursday a while back and they had more than 80 riders there at $50 per head so that's an income of $4k for the Thursday, Boydy might have say another 150 riders through there on Sat / Sun ( I'm guessing here ) so that's another $7.5 k. He pays for the insurance, the water , the track prep , his machinery expenses etc . He works very hard at it and makes a living from it.

Riders go there, sign the indemnity, pay their money and ride as much as they want.
They don't need to be a member of a club, they don't need a race license, they don't need to bring their own personal flag marshal, they aren't paying a rider levy, they aren't paying a flag levy, they aren't paying a medical levy.

Boydy isn't paying MA a cent, no permit fees , no officials fees or expenses etc.

So my little theory for how clubs might proceed....de affiliate from MA ( if possible... Some clubs operate on ground owned by someone else that may require affiliation ).
Put out the feelers to find an operator willing to lease their facility and run it as a professional operation , open for practice most weekends and even a day through the week if practical .
Clubs themselves then combine human resources to form an organisation that can replace MA as a race controlling / operating / facilitating organisation on a not for profit basis.
This organisation would co ordinate motocross racing and nothing else...not off road, not road racing, not trials, not speedway,not classiic, nothing else.....just motocross ....

That's my theory...obviously more complicated than just that, but the ride parks are proving that MA are not necessary and while clubs are mostly all struggling the ride parks appear to be thriving
brycepdh
Posts
413
Joined
11/3/2017
Location
Tasmania AU
5/20/2018 4:02pm
I can totally see every point you make and seen it happen. When we hold a practice day on a weekend we hardly make any income and the profit we make is from the food sales in the canteen.

As for MA, the only thing they really have that other ‘black’ clubs don’t is insurance.

We have a enduro club in Tasmania and it’s not affiliated with MA. We also have one that is affiliated. Point is that at a average club day we get probably 50 or do riders turn up while this enduro black club in the same area gets over 200 people turn up for an event. Because this is a black club fees are a little cheaper but if you injure yourself badly they don’t have the insurance and you have to cover yourself. That’s the only thing I can see in worth keeping MA but that doesn’t stop people turning up to the black club or the ride parks. I’m not saying like it’s a bad thing, just really the only positive and that you must be affiliated to hold an event in a series that has championship status.

The Shop

5/20/2018 4:05pm
brycepdh wrote:
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i...
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i am from Tasmania we do get the total fire bans but no facility here gets shut down because of that.

We roll on throughout the summer and practice on a dusty track and just live with it. We do water and prep occasionally to keep the dust settled and especially when we get a large dose of rain before/near an event we take advantage of that and rip the track up as it will retain moisture deep down for some time. My local has its own irrigation system so we don't relay on people to consistently water the track.

One thing I will add is that largely in America because of the scale the sport is over there people run them tracks as a business and live of that. The Australian mx scene depends on volunteers that run all the little clubs that keeps the sport going. I'm not saying America don't have that but its much easier to gain access to a better facility because of that. I know Australia has a couple of facilities like this and would like to make the trip over and ride them tracks.

I know its tough here and in Tasmania especially since my dad in the complex coordinator and used to be president of my local. This club depends on half of a dozen people to keep the place going and they would spend all their time after their jobs in the day to keep the club going. I just would like to thank all the people that put in countless amount of hours to keep the club running and they don't have to do it, it's easy to turn up to race and go home and without the volunteers we won't have a track to go to race and practice at. Keen to see the direction of my local is heading in as we are hosting the Australian Junior MX Nationals for the first time since 2004.
PJRAUS wrote:
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs...
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs are more or less all the same, just a hand full of diehards that keep them alive and a few fringe dwellers that always think they know how to do things better, but actually do little to help..
It's worthwhile taking notice of what's going on in the practice track scene. In Victoria we have ride park, Kruisic's, Park 4 and another one in central vic who's name I can't remember. There will be another one opening very soon near Glenrowan, so that's 5 privately operated Moto facilities all with watered and prepped main tracks.
The operators of these facilities run on a skeleton staff and operate to make a profit. They have no involvement with MA, are not subject to any of MA's rules and regulations. Value for money , track time , track preparation and ease of participation totally blow away anything a club can offer....What's holding clubs back? MA! End of story in my opinion.
If the ride parks should decide to start holding races.....I for one would never bother going to any MA involved races again...

I don't know what the answer is for clubs other than perhaps for clubs to find a way to lease out their facilities to private operators to run as a profit making business . What do clubs make out of a practice day? I'm guessing it's next to nothing! What do clubs make out of an average race day? I keep hearing that it's difficult for them to even break even...why? MA takes the lot....
MA will actually punish a club if it finds out that their track has been ridden on without the club applying for a practice day permit and providing the required officials and flaggers....The club cannot even change anything about the design of the track without having to re register their track , this includes having it re inspected for compliance by an MA official and all the exorbitant fees that go with all that bs...

I went to Park 4 in Melbourne on a Thursday a while back and they had more than 80 riders there at $50 per head so that's an income of $4k for the Thursday, Boydy might have say another 150 riders through there on Sat / Sun ( I'm guessing here ) so that's another $7.5 k. He pays for the insurance, the water , the track prep , his machinery expenses etc . He works very hard at it and makes a living from it.

Riders go there, sign the indemnity, pay their money and ride as much as they want.
They don't need to be a member of a club, they don't need a race license, they don't need to bring their own personal flag marshal, they aren't paying a rider levy, they aren't paying a flag levy, they aren't paying a medical levy.

Boydy isn't paying MA a cent, no permit fees , no officials fees or expenses etc.

So my little theory for how clubs might proceed....de affiliate from MA ( if possible... Some clubs operate on ground owned by someone else that may require affiliation ).
Put out the feelers to find an operator willing to lease their facility and run it as a professional operation , open for practice most weekends and even a day through the week if practical .
Clubs themselves then combine human resources to form an organisation that can replace MA as a race controlling / operating / facilitating organisation on a not for profit basis.
This organisation would co ordinate motocross racing and nothing else...not off road, not road racing, not trials, not speedway,not classiic, nothing else.....just motocross ....

That's my theory...obviously more complicated than just that, but the ride parks are proving that MA are not necessary and while clubs are mostly all struggling the ride parks appear to be thriving
The problem with these ride parks is they don’t give back to the competitor. Look at them they don’t hold races there. People need to support there local clubs more or else we lose them to these parks then what we have are overcrowded tracks full of all levels of riders out there at once. We get to our local MX club and lets face it unless your D.Ferris your 4x20min moto’s are more than enough for a good solid days riding. The so called lure of these parks is everyone says you get more riding in. Look at 99% of the people there they spend most of there time just chugging around on their 5th or 6th ride of the day.
I say if you want to ride at these parks alternate with your local club and park keep all running as in the end we are better off.
MA also need to have a good look at themselves our local clubs need to apply for permits to open and I bet that is associated with a fee this in itself is unfair against the affiliated clubs.
Anyway the NRGTV free coverage is awesome
PJRAUS
Posts
1532
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
5/20/2018 4:36pm
The problem with these ride parks is they don’t give back to the competitor. Look at them they don’t hold races there. People need to support...
The problem with these ride parks is they don’t give back to the competitor. Look at them they don’t hold races there. People need to support there local clubs more or else we lose them to these parks then what we have are overcrowded tracks full of all levels of riders out there at once. We get to our local MX club and lets face it unless your D.Ferris your 4x20min moto’s are more than enough for a good solid days riding. The so called lure of these parks is everyone says you get more riding in. Look at 99% of the people there they spend most of there time just chugging around on their 5th or 6th ride of the day.
I say if you want to ride at these parks alternate with your local club and park keep all running as in the end we are better off.
MA also need to have a good look at themselves our local clubs need to apply for permits to open and I bet that is associated with a fee this in itself is unfair against the affiliated clubs.
Anyway the NRGTV free coverage is awesome
I see all your points but everyone's mileage varies...I for one have never been to a club practice day where I got an opportunity to ride 4 X 20 minute sessions..they break the field down into classes and sessions are typically ten minutes and you might get 4 of these if you are lucky. If you want to spend a day testing and changing setup stuff on your bike this is not really viable on a club practice day, at the ride parks you can come and go from the track as much as you want all day.
Every club practice day I've been to bar the Deniliquin club , you have to give up one of your sessions to go out and flag or provide someone to do it for you.
Interestingly, I was passing though Broadford on Saturday so I called in to the track. It's been pretty much disused for a long time, but they've just formed a club to take over operations of the MX track and there seemed to be maybe 60 bikes there. The track looked really good and even more interesting...I looked as closely as I could and I could not see one flag marshal anywhere ....far as I know everyone lived...
The ride parks are giving back to the sport in that they are providing low cost easily accessible top notch tracks for racers to go practice on on the weekends and even through the week in some cases, you gotta practice seriously if you wanna race seriously and that's hard to do given the current club operated framework.

Where will we race if the clubs die? And I believe that they are dying? I don't know, it's why I put foward my suggestion above . I will not back away from my opinion that for at least amateur level racing to not only survive but thrive again ....
MA has to go....just go and leave us alone..

Yes and back to this thread...it's great to have the NRG coverage...I was told that WEM pays for it...nice!
From what I saw there didn't look to be any spectators at all... I hope the club didn't lose money, but you gotta be dedicated to stand around at the Wonthaggi track on a day like last Sunday!
EZZA 95B
Posts
9093
Joined
11/3/2010
Location
AU
Fantasy
1062nd
5/20/2018 4:45pm
When I was still riding (2011) of the 5 tracks we had in the area, not one allowed practice during the week, and I'm pretty sure it's still the case?
If you went to a "working bee" at one of the tracks, they said you could sneak in and practice. Had to basically go off-roading through the bush in order to get in.

No wonder our region hasn't produced anymore Anderson's and Reed's.

5/21/2018 4:12pm
brycepdh wrote:
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i...
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i am from Tasmania we do get the total fire bans but no facility here gets shut down because of that.

We roll on throughout the summer and practice on a dusty track and just live with it. We do water and prep occasionally to keep the dust settled and especially when we get a large dose of rain before/near an event we take advantage of that and rip the track up as it will retain moisture deep down for some time. My local has its own irrigation system so we don't relay on people to consistently water the track.

One thing I will add is that largely in America because of the scale the sport is over there people run them tracks as a business and live of that. The Australian mx scene depends on volunteers that run all the little clubs that keeps the sport going. I'm not saying America don't have that but its much easier to gain access to a better facility because of that. I know Australia has a couple of facilities like this and would like to make the trip over and ride them tracks.

I know its tough here and in Tasmania especially since my dad in the complex coordinator and used to be president of my local. This club depends on half of a dozen people to keep the place going and they would spend all their time after their jobs in the day to keep the club going. I just would like to thank all the people that put in countless amount of hours to keep the club running and they don't have to do it, it's easy to turn up to race and go home and without the volunteers we won't have a track to go to race and practice at. Keen to see the direction of my local is heading in as we are hosting the Australian Junior MX Nationals for the first time since 2004.
PJRAUS wrote:
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs...
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs are more or less all the same, just a hand full of diehards that keep them alive and a few fringe dwellers that always think they know how to do things better, but actually do little to help..
It's worthwhile taking notice of what's going on in the practice track scene. In Victoria we have ride park, Kruisic's, Park 4 and another one in central vic who's name I can't remember. There will be another one opening very soon near Glenrowan, so that's 5 privately operated Moto facilities all with watered and prepped main tracks.
The operators of these facilities run on a skeleton staff and operate to make a profit. They have no involvement with MA, are not subject to any of MA's rules and regulations. Value for money , track time , track preparation and ease of participation totally blow away anything a club can offer....What's holding clubs back? MA! End of story in my opinion.
If the ride parks should decide to start holding races.....I for one would never bother going to any MA involved races again...

I don't know what the answer is for clubs other than perhaps for clubs to find a way to lease out their facilities to private operators to run as a profit making business . What do clubs make out of a practice day? I'm guessing it's next to nothing! What do clubs make out of an average race day? I keep hearing that it's difficult for them to even break even...why? MA takes the lot....
MA will actually punish a club if it finds out that their track has been ridden on without the club applying for a practice day permit and providing the required officials and flaggers....The club cannot even change anything about the design of the track without having to re register their track , this includes having it re inspected for compliance by an MA official and all the exorbitant fees that go with all that bs...

I went to Park 4 in Melbourne on a Thursday a while back and they had more than 80 riders there at $50 per head so that's an income of $4k for the Thursday, Boydy might have say another 150 riders through there on Sat / Sun ( I'm guessing here ) so that's another $7.5 k. He pays for the insurance, the water , the track prep , his machinery expenses etc . He works very hard at it and makes a living from it.

Riders go there, sign the indemnity, pay their money and ride as much as they want.
They don't need to be a member of a club, they don't need a race license, they don't need to bring their own personal flag marshal, they aren't paying a rider levy, they aren't paying a flag levy, they aren't paying a medical levy.

Boydy isn't paying MA a cent, no permit fees , no officials fees or expenses etc.

So my little theory for how clubs might proceed....de affiliate from MA ( if possible... Some clubs operate on ground owned by someone else that may require affiliation ).
Put out the feelers to find an operator willing to lease their facility and run it as a professional operation , open for practice most weekends and even a day through the week if practical .
Clubs themselves then combine human resources to form an organisation that can replace MA as a race controlling / operating / facilitating organisation on a not for profit basis.
This organisation would co ordinate motocross racing and nothing else...not off road, not road racing, not trials, not speedway,not classiic, nothing else.....just motocross ....

That's my theory...obviously more complicated than just that, but the ride parks are proving that MA are not necessary and while clubs are mostly all struggling the ride parks appear to be thriving
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma for your $340 licence ? They state when you sign for a licence that they hold no responsibility or liability for a clubs race day management and the you forfeit any rights to damaged or destroyed property and personal injury or death so what do you get ? Another reason clubs struggle with numbers is because you have to be a member to do a club day ! at one stage i had 6 memberships and that adds up . we like to do a few rounds here and there at various clubs but have stopped because of the expense. I think ma should help here so once you pay for a national open licence you can race at clubs as a visitor even if it meant a little more for an entry . they'd get bigger line ups i think . As far as producing world class riders the restrictions ma put on tracks is holding us back . Hunter Lawrence never turned a wheel here as a senior and went os , he did it tough but got experience on real tracks and now hes our best talent just a few short years later . There are guys here racing that used to fight and even beat him as a junior but they wouldn't now . Jed beaton has improved and i reckon he`d win mx2 if he came back here . Most of the tracks here are junior oriented clubs and combined with MA `s bullshit regs they leave a lot to be desired and wont produce world class riders . The ride parks absolutely smoke the club tracks in every way and i know for a fact our pros don`t think that much of the club tracks that they have to race nationals on . especially the guys who've raced os . Our tracks are slow tight and have mostly small radius corners that don`t produce good racing because most of them try to jam too much track into a small area then MA come along and say its still too fast you need more obstacles which ruins any flow the track might have had . MA have to go , its blatantly obvious they have little regard for motocross in general and we need a motocross governing body that supports clubs not crucify them
Jrewing
Posts
2866
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
AU
5/22/2018 2:04am
Yep MA is single handedly killing the sport.
5/22/2018 4:26am
Hmmm your a little off on your fees and what MA charge. But 100% on the clubs being run by volunteers. The man hours and rules for a race day is ridiculous.

Practice days MA takes $2.50 per rider - Most decent clubs should make 500-750 profit running a practice day based on $20 practice fees.

A general club race day MA take about $6.50 per rider. The fees only go up when you hold open/state/national events. Normally the ambulance is your biggest cost at around $800 per day. Our club charged 30 for junior and 35 for senior and we needed about 40 riders before we broke even.

5/22/2018 4:31am
brycepdh wrote:
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i...
I second everything that PJ said about Australian motocross in general. you seem to put a lot of attention to the fire bans and while i am from Tasmania we do get the total fire bans but no facility here gets shut down because of that.

We roll on throughout the summer and practice on a dusty track and just live with it. We do water and prep occasionally to keep the dust settled and especially when we get a large dose of rain before/near an event we take advantage of that and rip the track up as it will retain moisture deep down for some time. My local has its own irrigation system so we don't relay on people to consistently water the track.

One thing I will add is that largely in America because of the scale the sport is over there people run them tracks as a business and live of that. The Australian mx scene depends on volunteers that run all the little clubs that keeps the sport going. I'm not saying America don't have that but its much easier to gain access to a better facility because of that. I know Australia has a couple of facilities like this and would like to make the trip over and ride them tracks.

I know its tough here and in Tasmania especially since my dad in the complex coordinator and used to be president of my local. This club depends on half of a dozen people to keep the place going and they would spend all their time after their jobs in the day to keep the club going. I just would like to thank all the people that put in countless amount of hours to keep the club running and they don't have to do it, it's easy to turn up to race and go home and without the volunteers we won't have a track to go to race and practice at. Keen to see the direction of my local is heading in as we are hosting the Australian Junior MX Nationals for the first time since 2004.
PJRAUS wrote:
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs...
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs are more or less all the same, just a hand full of diehards that keep them alive and a few fringe dwellers that always think they know how to do things better, but actually do little to help..
It's worthwhile taking notice of what's going on in the practice track scene. In Victoria we have ride park, Kruisic's, Park 4 and another one in central vic who's name I can't remember. There will be another one opening very soon near Glenrowan, so that's 5 privately operated Moto facilities all with watered and prepped main tracks.
The operators of these facilities run on a skeleton staff and operate to make a profit. They have no involvement with MA, are not subject to any of MA's rules and regulations. Value for money , track time , track preparation and ease of participation totally blow away anything a club can offer....What's holding clubs back? MA! End of story in my opinion.
If the ride parks should decide to start holding races.....I for one would never bother going to any MA involved races again...

I don't know what the answer is for clubs other than perhaps for clubs to find a way to lease out their facilities to private operators to run as a profit making business . What do clubs make out of a practice day? I'm guessing it's next to nothing! What do clubs make out of an average race day? I keep hearing that it's difficult for them to even break even...why? MA takes the lot....
MA will actually punish a club if it finds out that their track has been ridden on without the club applying for a practice day permit and providing the required officials and flaggers....The club cannot even change anything about the design of the track without having to re register their track , this includes having it re inspected for compliance by an MA official and all the exorbitant fees that go with all that bs...

I went to Park 4 in Melbourne on a Thursday a while back and they had more than 80 riders there at $50 per head so that's an income of $4k for the Thursday, Boydy might have say another 150 riders through there on Sat / Sun ( I'm guessing here ) so that's another $7.5 k. He pays for the insurance, the water , the track prep , his machinery expenses etc . He works very hard at it and makes a living from it.

Riders go there, sign the indemnity, pay their money and ride as much as they want.
They don't need to be a member of a club, they don't need a race license, they don't need to bring their own personal flag marshal, they aren't paying a rider levy, they aren't paying a flag levy, they aren't paying a medical levy.

Boydy isn't paying MA a cent, no permit fees , no officials fees or expenses etc.

So my little theory for how clubs might proceed....de affiliate from MA ( if possible... Some clubs operate on ground owned by someone else that may require affiliation ).
Put out the feelers to find an operator willing to lease their facility and run it as a professional operation , open for practice most weekends and even a day through the week if practical .
Clubs themselves then combine human resources to form an organisation that can replace MA as a race controlling / operating / facilitating organisation on a not for profit basis.
This organisation would co ordinate motocross racing and nothing else...not off road, not road racing, not trials, not speedway,not classiic, nothing else.....just motocross ....

That's my theory...obviously more complicated than just that, but the ride parks are proving that MA are not necessary and while clubs are mostly all struggling the ride parks appear to be thriving
dirtaddict wrote:
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma...
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma for your $340 licence ? They state when you sign for a licence that they hold no responsibility or liability for a clubs race day management and the you forfeit any rights to damaged or destroyed property and personal injury or death so what do you get ? Another reason clubs struggle with numbers is because you have to be a member to do a club day ! at one stage i had 6 memberships and that adds up . we like to do a few rounds here and there at various clubs but have stopped because of the expense. I think ma should help here so once you pay for a national open licence you can race at clubs as a visitor even if it meant a little more for an entry . they'd get bigger line ups i think . As far as producing world class riders the restrictions ma put on tracks is holding us back . Hunter Lawrence never turned a wheel here as a senior and went os , he did it tough but got experience on real tracks and now hes our best talent just a few short years later . There are guys here racing that used to fight and even beat him as a junior but they wouldn't now . Jed beaton has improved and i reckon he`d win mx2 if he came back here . Most of the tracks here are junior oriented clubs and combined with MA `s bullshit regs they leave a lot to be desired and wont produce world class riders . The ride parks absolutely smoke the club tracks in every way and i know for a fact our pros don`t think that much of the club tracks that they have to race nationals on . especially the guys who've raced os . Our tracks are slow tight and have mostly small radius corners that don`t produce good racing because most of them try to jam too much track into a small area then MA come along and say its still too fast you need more obstacles which ruins any flow the track might have had . MA have to go , its blatantly obvious they have little regard for motocross in general and we need a motocross governing body that supports clubs not crucify them
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual club. What your talking about are closed to club events which normally have cheaper fees. If they make it an open event ( anyone with MA licence can race) the club has to pay 150 to MA for the permit and then MA take anywhere from $8-11 per rider.

The problem with the clubs and MA is similar to owning a shitty franchise buisness and getting no support from the owners and them making rules which make it hard for your club to make enough money to run.
5/22/2018 5:30pm
PJRAUS wrote:
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs...
It's all a very complex problem for sure. I for one feel that the whole club based system of racing in Australia is deeply flawed. Clubs are more or less all the same, just a hand full of diehards that keep them alive and a few fringe dwellers that always think they know how to do things better, but actually do little to help..
It's worthwhile taking notice of what's going on in the practice track scene. In Victoria we have ride park, Kruisic's, Park 4 and another one in central vic who's name I can't remember. There will be another one opening very soon near Glenrowan, so that's 5 privately operated Moto facilities all with watered and prepped main tracks.
The operators of these facilities run on a skeleton staff and operate to make a profit. They have no involvement with MA, are not subject to any of MA's rules and regulations. Value for money , track time , track preparation and ease of participation totally blow away anything a club can offer....What's holding clubs back? MA! End of story in my opinion.
If the ride parks should decide to start holding races.....I for one would never bother going to any MA involved races again...

I don't know what the answer is for clubs other than perhaps for clubs to find a way to lease out their facilities to private operators to run as a profit making business . What do clubs make out of a practice day? I'm guessing it's next to nothing! What do clubs make out of an average race day? I keep hearing that it's difficult for them to even break even...why? MA takes the lot....
MA will actually punish a club if it finds out that their track has been ridden on without the club applying for a practice day permit and providing the required officials and flaggers....The club cannot even change anything about the design of the track without having to re register their track , this includes having it re inspected for compliance by an MA official and all the exorbitant fees that go with all that bs...

I went to Park 4 in Melbourne on a Thursday a while back and they had more than 80 riders there at $50 per head so that's an income of $4k for the Thursday, Boydy might have say another 150 riders through there on Sat / Sun ( I'm guessing here ) so that's another $7.5 k. He pays for the insurance, the water , the track prep , his machinery expenses etc . He works very hard at it and makes a living from it.

Riders go there, sign the indemnity, pay their money and ride as much as they want.
They don't need to be a member of a club, they don't need a race license, they don't need to bring their own personal flag marshal, they aren't paying a rider levy, they aren't paying a flag levy, they aren't paying a medical levy.

Boydy isn't paying MA a cent, no permit fees , no officials fees or expenses etc.

So my little theory for how clubs might proceed....de affiliate from MA ( if possible... Some clubs operate on ground owned by someone else that may require affiliation ).
Put out the feelers to find an operator willing to lease their facility and run it as a professional operation , open for practice most weekends and even a day through the week if practical .
Clubs themselves then combine human resources to form an organisation that can replace MA as a race controlling / operating / facilitating organisation on a not for profit basis.
This organisation would co ordinate motocross racing and nothing else...not off road, not road racing, not trials, not speedway,not classiic, nothing else.....just motocross ....

That's my theory...obviously more complicated than just that, but the ride parks are proving that MA are not necessary and while clubs are mostly all struggling the ride parks appear to be thriving
dirtaddict wrote:
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma...
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma for your $340 licence ? They state when you sign for a licence that they hold no responsibility or liability for a clubs race day management and the you forfeit any rights to damaged or destroyed property and personal injury or death so what do you get ? Another reason clubs struggle with numbers is because you have to be a member to do a club day ! at one stage i had 6 memberships and that adds up . we like to do a few rounds here and there at various clubs but have stopped because of the expense. I think ma should help here so once you pay for a national open licence you can race at clubs as a visitor even if it meant a little more for an entry . they'd get bigger line ups i think . As far as producing world class riders the restrictions ma put on tracks is holding us back . Hunter Lawrence never turned a wheel here as a senior and went os , he did it tough but got experience on real tracks and now hes our best talent just a few short years later . There are guys here racing that used to fight and even beat him as a junior but they wouldn't now . Jed beaton has improved and i reckon he`d win mx2 if he came back here . Most of the tracks here are junior oriented clubs and combined with MA `s bullshit regs they leave a lot to be desired and wont produce world class riders . The ride parks absolutely smoke the club tracks in every way and i know for a fact our pros don`t think that much of the club tracks that they have to race nationals on . especially the guys who've raced os . Our tracks are slow tight and have mostly small radius corners that don`t produce good racing because most of them try to jam too much track into a small area then MA come along and say its still too fast you need more obstacles which ruins any flow the track might have had . MA have to go , its blatantly obvious they have little regard for motocross in general and we need a motocross governing body that supports clubs not crucify them
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual...
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual club. What your talking about are closed to club events which normally have cheaper fees. If they make it an open event ( anyone with MA licence can race) the club has to pay 150 to MA for the permit and then MA take anywhere from $8-11 per rider.

The problem with the clubs and MA is similar to owning a shitty franchise buisness and getting no support from the owners and them making rules which make it hard for your club to make enough money to run.
How does it exist ? to do a club day i have to be a financial member of that club . its rare that they do a single event membership . But as far as MA are concerned yes i think its well known they are the problem, we just need to find the fix . MA Provide their so called insurance so they hold the clubs to ransom for every move they make its a joke .
5/22/2018 5:38pm
dirtaddict wrote:
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma...
PJ Is 100 % spot on about MA ruining the amateur level and the way they crucify clubs . What exactly do you get from ma for your $340 licence ? They state when you sign for a licence that they hold no responsibility or liability for a clubs race day management and the you forfeit any rights to damaged or destroyed property and personal injury or death so what do you get ? Another reason clubs struggle with numbers is because you have to be a member to do a club day ! at one stage i had 6 memberships and that adds up . we like to do a few rounds here and there at various clubs but have stopped because of the expense. I think ma should help here so once you pay for a national open licence you can race at clubs as a visitor even if it meant a little more for an entry . they'd get bigger line ups i think . As far as producing world class riders the restrictions ma put on tracks is holding us back . Hunter Lawrence never turned a wheel here as a senior and went os , he did it tough but got experience on real tracks and now hes our best talent just a few short years later . There are guys here racing that used to fight and even beat him as a junior but they wouldn't now . Jed beaton has improved and i reckon he`d win mx2 if he came back here . Most of the tracks here are junior oriented clubs and combined with MA `s bullshit regs they leave a lot to be desired and wont produce world class riders . The ride parks absolutely smoke the club tracks in every way and i know for a fact our pros don`t think that much of the club tracks that they have to race nationals on . especially the guys who've raced os . Our tracks are slow tight and have mostly small radius corners that don`t produce good racing because most of them try to jam too much track into a small area then MA come along and say its still too fast you need more obstacles which ruins any flow the track might have had . MA have to go , its blatantly obvious they have little regard for motocross in general and we need a motocross governing body that supports clubs not crucify them
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual...
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual club. What your talking about are closed to club events which normally have cheaper fees. If they make it an open event ( anyone with MA licence can race) the club has to pay 150 to MA for the permit and then MA take anywhere from $8-11 per rider.

The problem with the clubs and MA is similar to owning a shitty franchise buisness and getting no support from the owners and them making rules which make it hard for your club to make enough money to run.
dirtaddict wrote:
How does it exist ? to do a club day i have to be a financial member of that club . its rare that they do...
How does it exist ? to do a club day i have to be a financial member of that club . its rare that they do a single event membership . But as far as MA are concerned yes i think its well known they are the problem, we just need to find the fix . MA Provide their so called insurance so they hold the clubs to ransom for every move they make its a joke .
I mean the option is there for the clubs to make their event an open event instead of closed to club. Its 100% the clubs descisions not MA.

Closed to club =Have to be a finanical member of the club/s
Open event= Anyone with a MA licence (day or yearly) can enter.

The issue is an open event requires a seperate steward and clerk of course where a closes to club you can combine the roles. So you need another fully qualified person + extra fees to MA + you lose the income gained by club memberships so technically there is no benefit to the club to make it an open event.

5/22/2018 6:15pm
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual...
Dirtaddict. The part about being able to ride any club event already exists. the problem is clubs need the memberships for income to help their indivisual club. What your talking about are closed to club events which normally have cheaper fees. If they make it an open event ( anyone with MA licence can race) the club has to pay 150 to MA for the permit and then MA take anywhere from $8-11 per rider.

The problem with the clubs and MA is similar to owning a shitty franchise buisness and getting no support from the owners and them making rules which make it hard for your club to make enough money to run.
dirtaddict wrote:
How does it exist ? to do a club day i have to be a financial member of that club . its rare that they do...
How does it exist ? to do a club day i have to be a financial member of that club . its rare that they do a single event membership . But as far as MA are concerned yes i think its well known they are the problem, we just need to find the fix . MA Provide their so called insurance so they hold the clubs to ransom for every move they make its a joke .
I mean the option is there for the clubs to make their event an open event instead of closed to club. Its 100% the clubs descisions...
I mean the option is there for the clubs to make their event an open event instead of closed to club. Its 100% the clubs descisions not MA.

Closed to club =Have to be a finanical member of the club/s
Open event= Anyone with a MA licence (day or yearly) can enter.

The issue is an open event requires a seperate steward and clerk of course where a closes to club you can combine the roles. So you need another fully qualified person + extra fees to MA + you lose the income gained by club memberships so technically there is no benefit to the club to make it an open event.

Oh righto thanks for clearing that up i wasn`t aware of that .

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